Mini 1113 - Brotherhood of the Wolf Mafia

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count 2.0 - as of Post 975

Zang (0) -
Untrod Tripod (2) - Mariyta, GreyICE
Mariyta (0) -
AlmasterGM (0) -
LynchMePls (0) -
StrangerCoug (0) -
GreyICE (0) -
CooLDoG (0) -
UncertainKitten (1) - LynchMePls
Mina (0) -
GhostWriter (0) -

Not Voting (8) - Zang, Untrod Tripod, AlmasterGM, StrangerCoug, CooLDoG, UncertainKitten, Mina, GhostWriter

The Current deadline in Februrary. The Countdown can be found

HERE

With 11 alive - 6 are required to lynch and 4 are required to lynch at deadline.

Activity Check - All good.

[Untrod Tripod]

SHUT UP UT. DON'T FUCKING LIE AND SAY YOU DIDN'T WANT TO DISCUSS THE NIGHT KILL WHEN YOU FUCKING SAID 'LETS ALL TALK ABOUT WHAT SCUM COULD GAIN FROM NOT NIGHT KILLING.' WHAT RESPONSES ARE YOU GOING TO GET? LIKE: PERSON X SAID "WELL, IF SCUM WERE GOING TO NIGHT KILL, Y IS THE MOST TOWNIE," AND THAT'S WHO WE DID SUBMIT THE KILL ON! PERSON Z SAID 'I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU'RE DISMISSING THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE DOCTOR JUST HAS THE SCUM READ.' OOH, LOOK, WE'RE DOWN TO A FIELD OF 2 DOCTOR POSSIBILITIES KEKEKEKEKE.

THERE IS NO FUCKING MOTIVATION FOR DISCUSSING ANYTHING ABOUT THE FUCKING MATTER AT ALL. UK, YOU MAY BE WORSE FOR SUPPORTING THIS ASININE NOTION. AT LEAST ONE OF YOU IS SCUM AND I AM GODDAMN FUCKING LIGHTING THINGS ON FIRE UNTIL I FIGURE OUT WHICH.

HERE'S MY SUMMARY OF LAST NIGHT:

THERE IS NO SK
THERE IS NO NIGHT VIG
IT FUCKING CAUGHT US SCUM, THANKS TRIPOD.

You need to calm down. Nowhere in the post you are referencing did I say anything about discussing town night actions.

I find it likely that the

scum would have not used a NK last night

so as to try to get us to WIFOM ourselves to death.

That is what I said. Bold for emphasis. Nowhere in there do I say "hey, why don't we discuss night actions". In fact, if you want to read between the lines a little bit, I'm saying that if someone wanted to discuss their night action, they should stay quiet on the matter because I think it's likely that scum did not use their kill so as to get town to out a doc/rb/jk/lolwtf while drinking the delicious WIFOM. As I said before, my point was the polar opposite of what you are saying.

I want to do an analysis from the point of view that scum did NOT use their kill. Therefore any discussion of town protective/blocking roles should not happen at all.

[GreyICE]

All right. The wisdom on speculating on a no kill is mostly in the event you assume it wasn't a doctor. Granted, the length of my speculation only extends to "I wonder if CD has a penalty for his vig"

You of course don't try to speculate about doctors/who they protected.

So what, he has a power like "can use the NK as a day kill?" And that entire song and dance with the

davig:

was just a song and dance? I want to believe that, I really do. But how does it fit with SCUMPOD GOING ROLEFISHING? Scumpod and CooLDoG cooked THIS plan up in the quickthread?

Occam's Razor:

NK got aborted by doctor or bulletproof, scum is going fishing to figure out what happened.

[Untrod Tripod]

...which part of this is hard for you?

[GreyICE]

IT WASN'T HARD FOR ME. YOU MADE IT COMPLETELY CLEAR WHO SCUM WAS.

[Untrod Tripod]

I really don't get this.

I said, very specifically, that I don't want to discuss night actions. You said I was rolefishing and wanted to discuss night actions.

How are you getting "so who's the doc?" from "I don't want to discuss night actions"?

[GreyICE]

MAKE IT EASY FOR ME. EXPLAIN HOW YOUR SUGGESTION COULD POSSIBLY DO ANYTHING TO HELP THE TOWN. ANYTHING AT ALL, EVER, IN ANY REALITY OR ANY UNIVERSE. DON'T KEEP INSULTING ME OR TELLING ME TO CALM DOWN, JUST EXPLAIN WHAT POSSIBLE, PRO-TOWN MOTIVATION THERE WAS. YOU ARE FUCKING SCUMPLAINING AND TRYING TO GET OUT OF THIS BY ACTING HURT AND ATTACKING ME.

YOU HAVE MODERATED GAMES ON THIS SITE. YOU HAVE PLAYED IN QUITE A FEW GAMES ON THIS SITE. YOU ARE NOT NEWBIEXYZ IN THE NEWBIE THREAD. I READ THE GAMES OF PEOPLE I AM PLAYING WITH. DO NOT WIFOM ME ABOUT HOW SCUM WOULD 'KNOW BETTER THAN ACT SCUMMY.' YOUR REACTION WASN'T THAT OF TOWN, IT WAS THE REACTION OF SCUM WHO WAS CAUGHT OFF GUARD AND FISHING FOR WHAT FUCKED UP THE PLAN.

IT MIGHT BE THE FIRST HONEST REACTION WE GOT OUT OF YOU ALL GAME. BUT WE FUCKING GOT IT.

[UncertainKitten]

I don't see the rolefishing. And hilariously enough, scum don't tend to rolefish. It's HELPFUL to them, but it's one of those weird things where most of the time a townie will rolefish. Of course, it's possible there's an exception.

[GreyICE]

I don't see the rolefishing. And hilariously enough, scum don't tend to rolefish. It's HELPFUL to them, but it's one of those weird things where most of the time a townie will rolefish. Of course, it's possible there's an exception.

I've completed two games on this site. Lets see:

we need to decide if we think that day killing role is Vig or SK

it's pretty obvious who the day killer is unless I am completely off base, at first I thought it was llama by the way he kept talking about it but than after he suggested it could be a SK instead of a vig I realized it wasn't him anymore and found it pretty easy.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=100

Oh look. He fucking flipped scum. What a huge fucking surprise. My other completed game was a newbie game with a town win in the 7:2 mountainous setup, so you do the math on the scumplay there. Some of the ongoings... yeah, it happens. Quite a bit.

[UncertainKitten]

I've played a fuckton more games than you onsite and off. I've found that it doesn't happen as often as it's decried. NEARLY as often. You're always going to get lucky eventually. Do you have anything MORE on UT?

[Untrod Tripod]

MAKE IT EASY FOR ME. EXPLAIN HOW YOUR SUGGESTION COULD POSSIBLY DO ANYTHING TO HELP THE TOWN. ANYTHING AT ALL, EVER, IN ANY REALITY OR ANY UNIVERSE. DON'T KEEP INSULTING ME OR TELLING ME TO CALM DOWN, JUST EXPLAIN WHAT POSSIBLE, PRO-TOWN MOTIVATION THERE WAS.

YOU HAVE MODERATED GAMES ON THIS SITE. YOU HAVE PLAYED IN QUITE A FEW GAMES ON THIS SITE. YOU ARE NOT NEWBIEXYZ IN THE NEWBIE THREAD. I READ THE GAMES OF PEOPLE I AM PLAYING WITH. DO NOT WIFOM ME ABOUT HOW SCUM WOULD 'KNOW BETTER THAN ACT SCUMMY.' YOUR REACTION WASN'T THAT OF TOWN, IT WAS THE REACTION OF SCUM WHO WAS CAUGHT OFF GUARD AND FISHING FOR WHAT FUCKED UP THE PLAN.

IT MIGHT BE THE FIRST HONEST REACTION WE GOT OUT OF YOU ALL GAME. BUT WE FUCKING GOT IT.

Here is the basic logical disconnect that I think is happening here:
You are reading "I don't think that scum tried a NK" as "Soooooo...who blocked the scum last night?"
If I turn my head and squint really hard I can kind of see where you could get that from my first post on the subject, but I've said a couple of times now that you misread that, and I don't want to discuss town night actions. I'm not really sure what else I can do here. I don't want to discuss night actions.

I think our best move from here would be to examine what players would have the most to gain as scum by not sending in a NK.

I do not. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. NOT. want to discuss who scum might have tried to kill. I do not want to discuss if there are any town power roles.

I want to reexamine players from the perspective of scum not sending in a kill.

What really boggles my mind is that I didn't say anything about town power roles before you jumped on me. UK did. Why are you jumping on me for rolefishing when she introduced the idea that maybe there was a protective role?

also

YOU ARE FUCKING SCUMPLAINING AND TRYING TO GET OUT OF THIS BY ACTING HURT AND ATTACKING ME.

I am not doing any of these things. You haven't upset me and I'm not attacking you. I think you're misreading what I've said and refuse to acknowledge it when I point that out. That is not an attack, I just want to us to get on the same page here.

Here is an attack though: GI, this argument is strongly reminding me of arguing with a child. You are completely, 100%, absolutely, positutely WRONG in accusing me of rolefishing. This is just getting absolutely ridiculous. This argument boils down to you accusing me of saying something I didn't say and then completely flipping your shit when I point out that I didn't say that at all.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, more fucking complaining and insults. No fucking explanation for the asinine idea that the scum would give us a free lynch for some sort of insane benefit. Continued insistence that discussing the theory of the night kill won't give the scum any insight into protector roles.

UT, you're trying to get out of this by insulting me repeatedly. Which shows me how fucking flustered you are, because the moderator told us specifically to

stop fucking doing that.

You directly, clearly, and completely failed to do the one thing a townie might do:

Offer a convincing explanation for how the discussion you said you wanted would help the town.

More fucking insults. More whining. Shifting the blame to Kitten. But no fucking explanation of how your discussion helped the town. You know why I think that is? You can't come up with one. This hit too quickly. You realized there IS no TOWN motivation for your discussion. It doesn't help the town. It would never help the town. Not one single thing we would discuss in this hypothetical wankery would help the town.

I am fucking done here. You can come in here tomorrow, and think up some cool explanation. You can come in here five minutes from now, and think up some explanation. It does not matter. I directly and clearly asked you how your idea helped the town. And you had no response. Any response you think up after this is just that - a response you

thought up after the fact.

There was no pro-town reasoning in your mind when you made the post. My vote is not moving unless someone hard claims scum in thread.

[Untrod Tripod]

Ok. Take your ball and go home.

I find it likely that the scum would have not used a NK last night so as to try to get us to WIFOM ourselves to death. The addition of new information, because so many of us have made our reads and cases on each other very clear, would have helped us make a better kill. As it stands, we're more likely to keep pushing yesterday's cases than make new ones. That leads me to believe that many of our current cases are not leading us anywhere useful. I think I should reread the game to see which players would benefit the most from no new cases being brought forward.

NK speculation is usually not a great plan, but I think in this case it would be good to examine how not killing someone would help scum.

I refuse to acknowledge your other points until you answer this, because your misread of what I said is the basis for this argument:
1. What part of this quote is rolefishing?
2. What part of this quote says that I think there was a NK and it was blocked by a doctor/rb?

I have been very clear about what I think happened. You are putting words in my mouth. You are flipping out for no reason. You are the one throwing around most of the insults.

[Mariyta]

UT:

Don't like the "I don't want to discuss theory" deflection from ISO#4 or the "angry playstyles make me clam up" excuse in ISO#5;
ISO#6 looks good on the outside, but once you delve deeper (which I never did when I first read it), you find some nasty little surprises. First, there's the "Reck's claim is very odd" comment. Well, duh. It's a miller claim. Then there's this:

For point 2, what the fuck? If I were scum, why would my scum buddies voice suspicion of me but not vote? That would look super bad if either of us got lynched.

Distancing is the obvious answer. Scum do it all the time. Like, ALL the time. WIFOM is a scum's best friend in many cases.

The logical explanation for why a player would have suspicion on them but few votes is because the player isn't doing anything all that scummy.

If the player was doing nothing scummy, no one would accuse them of being scummy. It may just be that others are even scummier, so they got lucky w/ votes.
Then you get the sacrificial "Lynch me if you must" comment in ISO#7.
Hey, look. Next we get a change of heart and a "My vote was bad" comment. Explanation for Zang vote was meh. The last part was decent, but the first two sentences contradict each other. Then he moves his vote to SC (surprise surprise) for whom his case is just plain shite.

I'll start here. We've already discussed most of these points.

Your next post after this one (ISO#17) you claim there is nothing for you to talk about and that all the cases on you are bullshit (I'm sensing a theme in your defenses).
You sheep the SC wagon, then the CD wagon, then the Kats wagon (only reason given here is that Kats has been "useless")
There are a lot of posts that add nothing to the conversation.
Then you say you're up for a Zang vig after you'd never once mentioned Zang.
ISO#53 makes no sense. You say you're suspicious of LMP, that he possibly slipped, and that he might be making sense and you should listen to him. In the same paragraph, you went form "LMP might be scum" to "I should probably listen to what he says."
Not to mention the 8 gazillion "I swear, I'll hammer you" posts, just before the horrible hammer. All of this while you make no case whatsoever on Kats aside from "useless"

I'm not reading any of your posts from today because you just piss me off. But I do think Grey's reason for voting you is weak and potentially fabricated. I don't see where you said what he claims you said. He's on my list of reads for tomorrow.

So, moral of the story is, you sheep a lot, bitch about the cases posed against you, yet refuse to make any valid cases of your own (If I've missed them, please point them out).

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: UT

But when UT flips scum I get my UK lynch, right?

[CooLDoG]

All right. The wisdom on speculating on a no kill is mostly in the event you assume it wasn't a doctor. Granted, the length of my speculation only extends to

"I wonder if CD has a penalty for his vig"

You of course don't try to speculate about doctors/who they protected.

Actually yes I did have a penalty for the dayvig. It was that I couldn't use my track ability. Look the town is completely and utterly fucked if we don't lynch scum today. Its hard for me to see a town win if we don't lynch scum this day.

I've played a fuckton more games than you onsite and off. I've found that it doesn't happen as often as it's decried. NEARLY as often. You're always going to get lucky eventually. Do you have anything MORE on UT?

And he comes the old, I know some much more then you and thus you can't possibly be right, card. I get this all the time. Not valid, moving on...

Ok. Take your ball and go home.

I find it likely that the scum would have not used a NK last night so as to try to get us to WIFOM ourselves to death. The addition of new information, because so many of us have made our reads and cases on each other very clear, would have helped us make a better kill. As it stands, we're more likely to keep pushing yesterday's cases than make new ones. That leads me to believe that many of our current cases are not leading us anywhere useful. I think I should reread the game to see which players would benefit the most from no new cases being brought forward.

NK speculation is usually not a great plan, but I think in this case it would be good to examine how not killing someone would help scum.

I refuse to acknowledge your other points until you answer this, because your misread of what I said is the basis for this argument:
1. What part of this quote is rolefishing?
2. What part of this quote says that I think there was a NK and it was blocked by a doctor/rb?

I have been very clear about what I think happened. You are putting words in my mouth. You are flipping out for no reason. You are the one throwing around most of the insults.

^baaaaad posting here. I find this as major reflecting. Ice had a good point, and your answers are pathetic. Your dancing around the buch, stop giving shit run-around.

@ut, answer better to ice's post, and answer to maris point about your vote hopping. I think your vote hopping is a very good scum tell.


with that said I'm gonna post my reads, and I encourage all to do the same.

town(townest first):
Mariyta
GhostWriter
GreyICE (I see furstrated town in his posts. I don't think scum could get worked up so much over UT...)
slightly town:
AlmasterGM
hard to read/no-read:
Mina
Zang
StrangerCoug
Slightly scummy:
LynchMePls (I'm feeling more town vibes as of late. But she still needs to pick up the content... badly)
scummy!:
Zang(lurky lurk lurk )
UncertainKitten (scummy period.)
Untrod Tripod (shit posting).

vote:ut

until he owns up to his vote hopping, and gives good answers.

[StrangerCoug]

On the one hand, GreyICE needs to take a chill pill, but on the other hand, I feel he's right to attack UncertainKitten for rolefishing for the doctor. In addition, the last sentence of #974 is giving me a "what the hell" moment. It's worded to suggest that GreyICE is not trying to speculate who protected who, but should be. What protown motive is there for this?

VOTE: UncertainKitten

[UncertainKitten]

Oh lovely.

Can you show me where I rolefished for the doctor again, SC?

And can you show me where I EVER said protection speculation is ok?

You're either drastically misreading things or drastically unable to comprehend the English language, SC.

[Mariyta]

CD, you have Zang listed twice, and not very close to each other.

I thought Grey was attacking UT for fishing for the doc. I must've totally misread that whole argument.

[UncertainKitten]

Grey WAS. Which UT didn't appear to be doing from my perspective. I took UT's side because first, rolefishing isn't often done by scum in my experience, and tends to be a convenient buzzword to get a mislynch, and second, because I think UT had a good idea even if odds are he's wrong about the reasoning.

Supposedly, I was somehow fishing for the doctor in this defense.

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah, SC, the last sentence of 974 is pretty fucking obviously saying you DON'T speculate about that stuff.

I have a book for you SC

[StrangerCoug]

Can you show me where I rolefished for the doctor again, SC?

I'll admit that I got you and Untrod Tripod mixed up, but I want you to comment on this:

I personally favor a ridiculous theory and a more plausible one. Ridiculous theory is CD is scum and can only shoot during the day if he foregoes a kill at night. More plausible is it was a doctor.

Why aren't you considering a town roleblocker?

And can you show me where I EVER said protection speculation is ok? [/quote]

You of course don't try to speculate about doctors/who they protected.

This is where I'm getting the impression that you're encouraging GreyICE to rolefish. I mentally put commas after "you" and "course", which gives the sentence the meaning "you should be looking for the doctor or whom was likely protected, but you're not, as if that's news to me" instead of "under no circumstances is anyone to speculate about the doctor or whom he or she protected," which makes a

LOT

better sense to me.

You're either drastically misreading things or drastically unable to comprehend the English language, SC.

Don't you

DARE

call a former copy editor unable to comprehend his native language and suggest that he read a book for toddlers. I'm insulted by you suggesting the latter.

[GreyICE]

UK, it was a terrible idea, and supporting it is terrible. That doesn't

NECESSARILY

make it scum. Plenty of town have TERRIBLE ideas. You're not wrong about that.

Not having a single reason that it was GOOD for the town? I mean every terrible idea has a terrible chain of logic behind it. People don't just do things for no goddamn reason. Your theory that CD turned the NK into a daykill is lultastic, but at least it's a reason, of sorts... of sorts. (should I put FOS here? Also, lets stop discussing the dumb idea of lynching CD).

[Untrod Tripod]

You couldn't have gotten us mixed up because neither of us were rolefishing.

[UncertainKitten]

@SC: Well, guess what? I'm insulted by the insinuation that I can't play basic fucking mafia. So learn to read or accept that you fucked up. Thank you.

I'm quite amazed you were any good at copy editing if you can't understand that I was pretty fucking obviously saying that you DON'T speculate on Doctor targeting.

You were the ONLY person STUPID enough to get that from that line.

So really, I don't give a fuck if you're insulted. The shoe fucking fit.

As for not considering a roleblocker, do I need to list every role that can block a kill? Because I have a whole ton of them. I could make a huge list. Want me to start in my next post? Hell, as a bonus I'll throw in every indirect way a kill can be stopped. Want me to?

@Grey: Not sure how I feel about CD. And I told you it was a ridiculous theory. But still plausible. I think I've seen it as a role before. Not certain on that though. I may just have came up with it on my own and never put it into play yet.

To be honest, I want CD dead so that my brain can recover from the incredible stupid. But that's probably not going to happen so.

I still don't see what the terrible idea is?