Mini 1106 - No Exit Mafia

[Darox]

Make the logical deduction.

[LimMePls]

I wish you could dayvig me too. This game is going down in flames and you all seem hell bent on sitting back and watching it happen.

[Darox]

You could always contribute to society by voting Dark Horse.

[DrippingGoofball]

Hey guys

I have a free vote to give a way.

Who should I vote?

[LimMePls]

You could always contribute to society by voting Dark Horse.

I want a full comment on my palmetrou case first. If you've already done this, quoting it would be fine.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm willing to vote pretty much ANYBODY.

[LimMePls]

Then vote palmetrou.

[DrippingGoofball]

K

VOTE: palmertrou

[DrippingGoofball]

So we're all in cages, no one knows a thing?

[AntB]

vezo is dead

Thats what I get from reading and posting my my phone...

@Palmertrou
Thats twice you've had a case "munched up"... Once, ok. Twice? I don't think so. rebuild it and post it.

@Dark Horse
Incase you missed it, why isn't he scum?

[Dark Horse]

....read the thread. That is all.

[Ghostlin]

OK, this might get me lynched, but usually when I build a countercase (like a counterclam), I try my level best to understand it in the first place. Plus, the abbreviations don't do anything but be annoying. I don't find acutal evidence that they're scumhunting anything.

Also, to wake up town. I can only do so many provocative things. At this point it's really easy for scum.

VOTE: palmertrou

[The Jester]

DGB, I don't know why I bother with you, but why are you willing to vote anyone? I thought you had these cool town-detecting powers? Surely you've found all town by now and can list the rest as mafia?

I was doc-protected twice, so now you resort to this???

Just to make sure you know I want every detail of your logical devolution, I mean bizniss:

Last I checked, most games don't tell the player, "by the way you were doc protected". Care to explain?

[DrippingGoofball]

Read the game, Jester. I didn't realize that we were all in freakin' cages, including the scum who need to secretly vote and there is no NK unless they all vote for the same player.

Freakin' cages, gah!

I guess that's why the game is called NO FREAKIN' EXIT.

[The Jester]

I read the game you know, before it started like you're supposed to.

There were ideas I had that I was unsure whether or not they should be shared baring their relevance.

Please answer the question DGB, I believe you can do this.

[palmertrou]

LMP, a lot of it I don't understand anyway. If you could explain it I'll be able to address it quicker.

I meant this when I said this. Yeah, there are some points that I understand and I will defend them now. Most of it I don't understand though. Most of it I can't see your point. If I can't see your point then I can't defend it. Rather than explain his points LMP just goes:

He had a response but the internet ate it. But even if the internet didn't eat it, he didn't understand the case anyways. o.O Can we please lynch this guy people?

So I guess I'll just go ahead and address the points I do understand. The rest of it I'll just assume is padding and gibberish as I first thought. I really do think this is an attempt to feign the appearance of a 'good case'.

FoS LMP

@Ant B
Not to get into the technical aspects of how crap my router is but this happens quite a lot. Sometimes I have to restart my router about 5 times a day. If I make a post that takes me about an hour then the chances of my router cutting out are bigger. If I try to post it and my router cut out in the time I wrote the post then I lose the whole post. Re-writing a post like that just pisses me right off. Hence why I wanted LMP to explain his case a bit better so that I could address it in one go. Also, isn't it more plausible that it's a recurring problem rather than just a one off?

Do you really think I'd try and ride along and not defend myself or scumhunt and just blame my router the whole game? I was waiting for LMP to explain his case before I defended everything and not just what I understood.

Well here it goes anyway, maybe you'll get why I'm a bit sceptical of his case:

LMP's 'case'

Yeah, so this first extract is just a big hunk of quoting with LMP going 'well this is scummy and so are all his other posts'.
My response: why?

His second extract his him saying guderian is town because he attacked me for weak reasoning and trying to get a Vezok lynch.
My response: 1) What reasoning have employed that is weak? Bear in mind that this is a comment on the back of comments I've made early on day 1. 2) I've never played with anyone here apart from Zazier. So I wouldn't know about Vezok and what she is like usually.

His third extract is him pointing out that I didn't like the Jester speculation.
My response: Why does this make me scum? Do you like jester speculation?

His fourth extract is him highlighting a comment made by darox on Ghostlin in which he votes ghostlin for bringing up jester speculation and being verbose. He turns this onto me because I didn't comment on it.
My response: I don't think jester speculation is nessacarily scummy. I just think it's anti-town. No?

His fifth extract is him highlighting a quote I made and saying that it is a poinless comment and an attempt to appear town.
My response: Okay, it might appear that way. I did have a point here in the first line. What followed was just me justifying why what I quoted from Guderian pinged my scumdar. I don't know what IIOA means.

Extract 6 is another huge quote pyramid to point out that I don't like jester speculation.
My response: I don't like jester speculation. Stop making massive quote walls to prove what I would quite freely admit and have done in the thread. If there is something else you are getting at then I don't get it.

Extract 7. He says that he loves DGB because she pointed out that I had made scummy posts.
My response: There really isn't anything to 'love' here from DGB. Seriously. There is no show of any skillful incite or clever deduction that would warrant such a comment. All this says to me is that LMP is trying to buddy DGB. End of. No offence DGB.

Extract 8. Pats Vezok on the back for attacking me. Vezok reasoning on me is that I was apparently pushing easy lynches.
My response: Again, wasn't aware of Vezok and her naturally scummy nature.

Extract 9. He quotes me about asking if cults meant masons.
My response: Well it wasn't actually changing the subject. To me, it was quite pertinant. If I could discard a DGB and DH masoning then I could be more focused on what was actually happening between the two of them. On a side note, this was never answered.

Extract 10 is pretty much the same as 8.
My response: meh. Just seems at this point like you're trying to for the extra lines to make you're case look bigger =/= better.

Extract 11 is quoting a Guderian vote on me and LMP agreeing with it.
My response: Ask meaningless questions scum-tactic? Is that a tactic? lol.

Extract 12 is quoting guderian again. This is the post where it is apparently a wagon unveiling scum.
My response: Why is this unveiling scum? To me it seemed pretty justified given day 1 relativity. How is this different from the people on the failed jester wagon? I'm sure scum would love to back behind a townies faulty reasoning like this.

Extract 13 is quoting me doing a summary after a V/LA. Then pointing and shouting scum at me.
My response: Reasons?

Conclusion. I'm a little perplexed that a case like this can harvest any votes on me. I'm seriously scratching my head. All he has done is point at me and shout 'SCUM!!!'. I think LMP's play at the moment is even worse than Ross' was. I'm considering a vote on him. Just need to do a re-read of him first.

[DrippingGoofball]

OH alright, palmertrou is town.

VOTE: LMP

[palmertrou]

@Guderian.

The abbreviations thing is something I use which allows me to state something at the time of the post which anchors what I think the answer actually is without the person in question knowing. I wouldn't want the person in question to know what I was thinking and giving them the safe answer. Also if my credibility would come into question for asking something out of the ordinary then I might use it too. Here is an example from another game:

Don't want to be called a sheep for voting the obvious choice.

It's his way of getting people to stay off his wagon. Ignore it. Why are you worried about being called 'sheep' by the person who you think is scum? Y.F.Y.S.B.I.T

So I have a suspicion of Goath from a comment he made but only if he isn't being sarcastic. Which I think he is.

@palmertrou: that was a touch of sarcasm because he accused me of sheeping earlier. I could care less what he says, lol

Also, could you explain that acronym? It confused me, hahaha

You forgot your sarcasm brackets I think. (Y.F.Y.S.B.I.T) The acronym was meant to be unguessable.

So yeah, he was just being sarcastic. I think it'll come off one of these days though.
In this game though I found it quite interesting, Dark horses responses especially.

[palmertrou]

So we're all in cages, no one knows a thing?

Okay, so I'm not usually one to jump and shout about apparent rolefishing, most of the time people have quite a sensitive trigger finger on rolefishing comments. But this...? Really?

What are you actually expecting from this comment?

[DrippingGoofball]

What are you actually expecting from this comment?

I don't expect anyone to actually answer this, but I was really hoping that after two nights with no-kill, we'd have a cop result or a roleblock or sum'thin' but nooooooooooooooooooooo we're all in freakin' cages this is like HANSEL & GRETEL mafia, the mod is giving us candy to fatten us up for a good roast.

[Seacore]

Vote count 3.2

palmertrou (2) -

LynchMePls, Ghostlin

The Jester (1) -

Dark Horse

Dark Horse (1) -

Darox

LynchMePls (1) -

DrippingGoofball

Not voting (5) - veridis, The Jester, AntB, ZazieR, palmertrou

With 10 alive, 6 votes are needed for the lynch

Deadline countdown viewable here.

Okay, veridis seems to have flaked, looking for a replacement. Feel free to help out with the search.

[Darox]

Oh hey Palmertrou is a terrible wagon.

Let's lynch Dark Horse instead. For the multitude of reasons I have already given, plus everything he's ever done ever, plus because I have a dancing tiger.

[DrippingGoofball]

WHy not lynch LMP?

[palmertrou]

There isn't a lot of focus at the start of today. I'm feeling the same. There are only a few people that I won't be voting for (Darox, Zazier, Ghostlin) unless something major happens. I'm kinda torn between three people; Dark horse, LMP and Jester. However, I want to find out more about AntB, Veridis and DGB (blood from a stone, lol). So I guess that is my scum list at the moment.

Zazier Darox Ghostlin

AntB DGB Veridis

Jester LMP Darkhorse

...and now that's me

V/LA until monday

. Although I guess most of that will be spent wooing my woman (valentines day).

[LimMePls]

@DGB: Cause I'm not scum?

Palmetrou's "response" is complete farce.

Spoiler: MY POINTS AGAINST PALM

Here are my points against him:

I really don't like this jester speculation, it really muddy's the thread and clear lines of thought. IMO if someone is acting scummy and they are lynch flipped as jester then that's just crappy luck.

Just for clarification though, town can still 'win' if a jester is lynched right?

If he doesn't like the jester speculation, THEN WHY IS HE ENGAGING IN IT! Read the first bit. Then read the second. If he thinks the jester speculation is bad, why does he ask the question "just for clarification". This is COMPLETELY ILLOGICAL and looks to be trying to push the jester talk further while distancing from it at the same time. SCUMMY.

There is a differance between a day 1 lynch and a day 1 wagon. Why do you group the two?

The more wagons we can fit in a day the more information we get as long as the wagons have lynch potential (no pressure otherwise). This ends with a lynch. I think that early wagons aren't as pressurising as wagons at the latter stages of the day. The biggest early wagons are generally the same wagons at the end of the day though.

Pure IIOA that does nothing to move the game forward. More posting from palmetrou that is actively trying to 'look town'.

@ mod; Does town lose if a jester is lynched?

- this is all we need to know about jesters. End of jester discussion.

Again, for someone who doesn't like the jester speculation, we have MORE JESTER SPECULATION. This is twice now that, after palmetrou claims to not like the jester talk palm goes on to ACTIVELY STIR UP AND KEEP THE JESTER TALK GOING.

palmetrou is scum, for the entirety of his

oeuvre

.

What? Because I want you to answer questions I've asked of you from like 3/4 pages ago? Not just mine either. If anyones name should be in this statement it's you or/and Vezo.

No, because of every single one of your posts. Do you want me to go through them one by one?

@DGB: Remember this? Palm completely lurked himself away from this. You should go back and reread this time period and then palm's play from this point.

Palmetrou is trying to push cases on easy lynches. Somehow he doesn't say anything about DH even if he could accuse him of being scum with DGB. I.E. He doesn't care who he is trying to lynch. He is just trying to lynch someone.

unvote
vote palmetrou

This was a 100% correct interpretation of palm's play to this point in the game. You should all go back and read it.

also, what is meant by cults? Does that mean masons?

Palm claims to not like jester speculation (but engages in it anyways) AND THEN, when under pressure (from DGB and vezo) starts CULT SPECULATION!? WTF!???!?! ARE YOU PEOPLE READING THIS!?

Things are moving in a way I don't quite understand yet. I've been away for a while without knowing I would be. I kinda get why DGB thinks Vezok be town though. RW and Veridis are pinging my scumdar that weren't really pinging it before. Goofball seems likely town (or more likely town to be more accurate) even though I have issues with how she's playing. Xalxe and Dark horse (maybe ghostlin) seem most town although I haven't written anyone off yet and I don't think anyone should before a flip. Seems non-sensical to me.

Will re-read and possibly look at a couple of peeps in more detail tomorrow but in the meantime: Unvote

Note the "being away a while" reference. Do you know what this leaves out? That the being away a while came CONVENIENTLY when people started calling palm scum. And palm lurked it away, and deadline pressures turned the town towards Xalxe mislynch.

Spoiler: PALMS FAIL RESPONSE

Now, with all of that, look at the following from palm's response:

His third extract is him pointing out that I didn't like the Jester speculation.
My response: Why does this make me scum? Do you like jester speculation?

Note that I did not say the jester speculation was good, I said that palm says he doesn't like the jester speculation but then ENGAGES IN JESTER SPECULATION.

His fourth extract is him highlighting a comment made by darox on Ghostlin in which he votes ghostlin for bringing up jester speculation and being verbose. He turns this onto me because I didn't comment on it.
My response: I don't think jester speculation is nessacarily scummy. I just think it's anti-town. No?

I was not "turning this onto you". That post was a CATCH UP POST. There were comments in that post that were NOT about you. This was one of those. That point was actually: Why does darox not like Ghostlin's jester spec, but doesn't mention palm's?

His fifth extract is him highlighting a quote I made and saying that it is a poinless comment and an attempt to appear town.
My response: Okay, it might appear that way. I did have a point here in the first line. What followed was just me justifying why what I quoted from Guderian pinged my scumdar. I don't know what IIOA means.

Admits to the useless posting that I claim is an attempt by him to "look town without helping town".
@Palm: IIOA means "Information instead of Analysis". In other words you just state a bunch of facts that, while true, do nothing helpful for the town. They are attempts (usually by scum) to try and post content without actually driving the game forward in any meaningful way.

Extract 6 is another huge quote pyramid to point out that I don't like jester speculation.
My response: I don't like jester speculation. Stop making massive quote walls to prove what I would quite freely admit and have done in the thread. If there is something else you are getting at then I don't get it.

Second misrep about the jester speculation. My point isn't that he doesn't like jester speculation (that by itself would be fine), my point is that HE CLAIMS TO DISLIKE JESTER SPECULATION BUT ACTIVELY ENGAGES IN IT ANYWAYS!

Extract 7. He says that he loves DGB because she pointed out that I had made scummy posts.
My response: There really isn't anything to 'love' here from DGB. Seriously. There is no show of any skillful incite or clever deduction that would warrant such a comment. All this says to me is that LMP is trying to buddy DGB. End of. No offence DGB.

This one is awesome. Once again, this was a catch up post that had purposes besides making a case on palm. (In fact, it wasn't even intended to be a case on palm, it just grew that way as I read the game). Furthermore, I love that he tries to fling mud at me by saying this is me trying to buddy DGB, but ends with "No offence DGB". Talk about trying to buddy.

Extract 8. Pats Vezok on the back for attacking me. Vezok reasoning on me is that I was apparently pushing easy lynches.
My response: Again, wasn't aware of Vezok and her naturally scummy nature.

Does not refute my or vezok's argument. In fact, the "wasn't aware of vezok and her naturally scummy nature" is sort of an admission that he was pushing easy wagons/mislynches.

Extract 9. He quotes me about asking if cults meant masons.
My response: Well it wasn't actually changing the subject. To me, it was quite pertinant. If I could discard a DGB and DH masoning then I could be more focused on what was actually happening between the two of them. On a side note, this was never answered.

Again, does not refute my assertion. Absolutely it was changing the subject. I ask anyone interested to go back and read what was happening in the game at the time. This was a complete smoke screen to change the subject to "what are cults/masons/ect".

Extract 10 is pretty much the same as 8.
My response: meh. Just seems at this point like you're trying to for the extra lines to make you're case look bigger =/= better.

See above.

Extract 11 is quoting a Guderian vote on me and LMP agreeing with it.
My response: Ask meaningless questions scum-tactic? Is that a tactic? lol.

Absolutely asking meaningless questions is a scum-tactic. It is trying to look like participating without actually participating. (ie. "Look at all these awesome questions! Aren't I a good townie for asking them!?!?")

Extract 12 is quoting guderian again. This is the post where it is apparently a wagon unveiling scum.
My response: Why is this unveiling scum? To me it seemed pretty justified given day 1 relativity. How is this different from the people on the failed jester wagon? I'm sure scum would love to back behind a townies faulty reasoning like this.

ONCE AGAIN, THIS WAS A CATCHUP POST! IT WAS DESIGNED FOR OTHER THINGS THAN YOU! THIS WAS AN INSTANCE OF ME AGREEING WITH GUD AND NOTING THAT FOR THE GAME.

Extract 13 is quoting me doing a summary after a V/LA. Then pointing and shouting scum at me.
My response: Reasons?

Nice how you completely ignore the point of the post, which is pointing out that you had just LURKED AWAY YOUR WAGON. You returned to the game and completely ignored all of the things said about you previous to your lurking. It worked too, so grats on that.

TL;DR

Palm is scum becuase he:

• Says he doesn't like jester speculation, but then in the same post, engages in furthering the jester speculation.
  
• Makes IIOA statements designed to appear town without actually helping town.
  
• Engages in MORE jester speculation after having previously said he didn't like it.
  
• Engaged in easy bandwagonning with no active scum hunting.
  
• Tries to change the subject when under scrutiny by stirring up CULT SPECULATION. After having previously disliked the jester speculation. What about cult speculation is good but jester speculation isn't? Why does he dislike the one (but engage in it anyways) but engage in the other?
  
• Lurks when receiving suspicion from other players. Unlurks when the tides have turned. Never really responds to the points against him.
  
• Tries to dismiss my arguments against him with "I had a great response, but the interwebz ate it" bullshit. When that fails, engages in gross misrepresentations of my points against him. (See below list for specifics of this)

Palm response to my points is bogus/misrepping in the following ways:

• Tries to turn my points about his inconsistancy in regards to jester speculation into "What's wrong with opposing jester speculation." Twice.
  
• Claims my points in my catchup post that weren't even about him are about him. Tries to argue that I'm padding my "case". Complete misrepresentation of my post.
  
• Admits to the useless posting that I call "trying to look town without being town".
  
• Flings mud at me for trying to "buddy" DGB (in my catch up post where I was not trying to buddy DGB but noting a town like stance on a player, which is NORMAL for a catchup post) while HILARIOUSLY trying to buddy DGB in the same breath. FAILTACULAR!
  
• Admits that he was pushing easy wagons/mislynches.
  
• Claims he wasn't changing the subject when under scrutiny. (But he was)
  
• More false accusation about "padding" my case. Again, that was NOT a case. It was a catchup post. It just happened to have numerous pieces of evidence pointing to palm guilt. There was ABSOLUTELY NO PADDING going on.
  
• Does not refute that he was asking meaningless questions. Only tries to assert that it isn't a scum tactic.
  
• Tries to sidestep the point about how he lurked his wagon away.

CAN WE PLEASE LYNCH THIS SCUM NOW!?!??!