Firefly Mafia - Voyage over

[Thok]

running around willynilly is a scum tell.

unvote, vote deathsquiggle

Hello Pot, can I introduce you to my friend Kettle?

[the silent speaker]

Oh, and by the way, he still hasn't explained in what ways I was 'running around willy nilly'.

I think it means your circumcision got botched.

[Dragon Phoenix]

*wipes coffee from screen*

[Mr. Whedon]

The first

Vote Count

for Day 2....

~deathsquiggle~ (4)

- Peacebringer, Fritzler, armlx, BabyJesus

Iammars (3)

- Fuldu, Yosarian, EmpTyger

The silent speaker (1)

- Thok

Not voting: ~deathsquiggle~, bloojay, d8P, DP, Iammars, Mini Neo, TSS

8 to lynch.

[BabyJesus]

Umm, no, you were still running around all willy nilly.

If you don't explain this, I'm not going to be able to defend myself (of course, if you're not going to explain yourself, I'm not sure I should even have to).

running around willynilly is a scum tell.

unvote, vote deathsquiggle

So is bandwagoning townies.

So which one of you should I vote?

sorry guy, you and Iammars are the leading vote getters right now, and I don;t like a Iammars vote at all.

[d8P]

OMGUSFos Fritzler

[EmpTyger]

Fuldu, Yosarian, and I have voted Iammars.
Thok has FOSed him.
armlx “doesn’t want to outguess the mod” but wants a claim anyhow.
BabyJ has defended him.

Yet 6 people {~ds~, d8P, DP, Fritzler, PB, tss} have all posted in the thread- in same cases bordering on spammily- yet have *totally* ignored the Iammars matter.


(bloojay hasn’t posted anywhere since Monday, and Neo hasn’t been on the site since daybreak. These should probably be at least prodded.)

[Thok]

Fuldu, Yosarian, and I have voted Iammars.

Thok has FOSed him.

Bold for emphasis. I haven't made any comment towards Iammars today.

unvote tss, vote EmpTyger

[Fuldu]

That's a bad argument, EmpTyger. There are more people voting ~ds~ than Iammars, but neither you or I have commented on that bandwagon, either. Does that make us scummy? Besides, there's nothing truly concrete against Iammars or ~ds~. Right now, my suspicions are a little bit more than a feeling, not something I'm going to start railroading people into following.

[Iammars]

As to why I stopped in the middle of the day, I stopped around the Nanook wagon. There was a reason for that as I needed a clarification from the mod, and I didn't want to risk saying it.

[EmpTyger]

Thok:
I have no idea how I read that. The only FOS for Iammars was Yosarian’s, so I suppose I somehow accidentally attributed it to you? You’re right, I should have put you as having posted without having comment on Iammars’s actions.


Fuldu:

That's a bad argument, EmpTyger. There are more people voting ~ds~ than Iammars, but neither you or I have commented on that bandwagon, either. Does that make us scummy? Besides, there's nothing truly concrete against Iammars or ~ds~. Right now, my suspicions are a little bit more than a feeling, not something I'm going to start railroading people into following.

First of all, no, I’m not railroading people into following me. I’m just as interested in hearing who doesn’t want to hear Iammars’s claim as I am in who does.

Second, the difference is that Iammars, who has been itching to claim since daybreak, stated that he would claim if “everyone else” wanted him to. And I would think that a simple enough issue that every player would weigh in on it. But instead it seems that it is being deliberately ignored for some vague accusations.

For those *on* the ~ds~ bandwagon have barely commented on the bandwagon. PB hasn’t stated a reason for voting ~ds~. It has taken Fritzler nearly 2 whole pages to state anything remotely resembling a rationale. armlx has made some vague justification based on the letter D, and he also wants to hear Iammars claim anyhow. BabyJ was advocating tss even more strongly earlier but never responded to my question about him. So what exactly would I be supposed to comment on?

I have interpreted BabyJ’s and Fritzler’s actions as probing, and in that light ~ds~’s and tss’s actions have been a little interesting. But with Iammars, the attention on him seemed to be stagnating. And seeing as I found him much more suspicious, I saw no reason to let that matter drop.

And nothing truly concrete against Iammars or ~ds~? I’m not I can yet say one way or the other about ~ds~. But there is certainly concrete reasons to suspect Iammars. He has admitted to lurking while a bandwagon developed against Nanook. He has seemed desperate to have a claim ready today. He posted 9 times yesterday yet contributed practically nothing. And he seems to be awfully close to contradicting himself.


DP:
I find it interesting how yesterday you started and supported a random- and incidentally, successful- bandwagon, yet today you are acting much more passively. What are you thinking of all this?

[Iammars]

I have NOT been itching to claim. My role was the reason why I wasn't posting at the end of day 1, and the only reason. How else am I supposed to defend myself? I don't want to claim unless I'm bandwagoned to almost lynch.

[Thok]

I'll

unvote EmpTyger

for the moment.

I think Iammars is being stupid by making vague comments about his role, but that doesn't make him scummy. There's no need to press him for a full role claim right now.

[d8P]

I agree. I don't think there's anything to his "I got roleblocked night 1". Admittedly, if he were scum it would imply he had nothing to do with the kills etc, but if not, I'm sure he has a valid reason for saying he was blocked.

[Dragon Phoenix]

DP:
I find it interesting how yesterday you started and supported a random- and incidentally, successful- bandwagon, yet today you are acting much more passively. What are you thinking of all this?

I'm thinking that I am short of time the last few days (or even weeks). Things should improve over Christmas. In addition, I am not starting any new games.

[Yosarian2]

I'll

unvote EmpTyger

for the moment.

I think Iammars is being stupid by making vague comments about his role, but that doesn't make him scummy. There's no need to press him for a full role claim right now.

(shrug) I'm not pressing for a full claim. It sounds like if he's scum he's already got a fake claim prepared that he really wants to share anyway. I'm just pushing for him to be lynched. At least until someone can actually give a decent explination for why they think someone else is a better lynch today.

[the silent speaker]

It just seems really weird, though. I know this is at least a triple-edged argument, but when I'm scum sharing my claim (regardless of how good I think it is) is the last thing I want to do; I'd much rather get through the game without having to. Though I admit being annoyed when I get nightkilled before using a really good one. If I'm going to die, I'd rather use it first, but not having to put it to the trial trumps all.

[Yosarian2]

It just seems really weird, though. I know this is at least a triple-edged argument, but when I'm scum sharing my claim (regardless of how good I think it is) is the last thing I want to do; I'd much rather get through the game without having to. Though I admit being annoyed when I get nightkilled before using a really good one. If I'm going to die, I'd rather use it first, but not having to put it to the trial trumps all.

(shrug) A really good claim fairly early that you can somehow back up on can get you "confirmed" in people's minds early, which can win you the game if you're scum.

[EmpTyger]

Does anyone who’s played with Yosarian before know whether his frequent (shrug)ing is unusual?


Iammars:
Let me paraphrase your contributions to the game in your 17 posts:

1) You randomvote PB.
2) You have commented on the state on Nanook’s bandwagon. On Day 2. A whole day *after* it occurred and after he was lynched. And moreover you state that no conclusions can be drawn from on or off voters.
3) You say speculation is bad, because it might allow mafia members to make fake claims. Except that you then say that it probably wouldn’t matter anyhow.
4) You have clarified your own behavior:
a) You have claimed unfamiliarity with the show/movie.
b) You stopped posting coincidentally as a mafia member was being bandwagoned.
allegedly waiting for the mod.
c) You were waiting on something from the mod.
d) You were roleblocked N1.
e) You have some type of ability which receives some kind of results.

Notice anything you haven’t done? Aside from a random vote, you have said *nothing* about any other player in the game! You have not said who you think might be guilty. You have not said who you think might be innocent. You have not found anything suspicious. You have said nothing, in 17 posts, productive about anyone else. Yet today you have been more than willing to let drop hints about a role you allegedly have. Does this not seem in any way incongruous to you?


Thok:
I’m probably not the most objective judge, but I find it odd how hastily you voted me for merely a simple mistake, and then unvoted me (admittedly “for the moment”, but still.). But it seems that it did allow you to maneuver your vote off of tss, when he was the only one besides Iammars and ~ds~ with votes and the bandwagons on both Iammars and ~ds~ seems to be stalling.
I’ll admit that this is very speculative, and moreover nothing to be acted on right now, but I do want to mention it in case it is later discovered that tss is mafia…

[Fritzler]

Ok, so also I'm going to nebraska on monday, and I will have limited access till tuesday. I get back tuesday night, but leave again wednesday afternoon for no access till the 31st.

[Iammars]

Does anyone who’s played with Yosarian before know whether his frequent (shrug)ing is unusual?


Iammars:
Let me paraphrase your contributions to the game in your 17 posts:

1) You randomvote PB.
2) You have commented on the state on Nanook’s bandwagon. On Day 2. A whole day *after* it occurred and after he was lynched. And moreover you state that no conclusions can be drawn from on or off voters.
3) You say speculation is bad, because it might allow mafia members to make fake claims. Except that you then say that it probably wouldn’t matter anyhow.
4) You have clarified your own behavior:
a) You have claimed unfamiliarity with the show/movie.
b) You stopped posting coincidentally as a mafia member was being bandwagoned.
allegedly waiting for the mod.
c) You were waiting on something from the mod.
d) You were roleblocked N1.
e) You have some type of ability which receives some kind of results.

Notice anything you haven’t done? Aside from a random vote, you have said *nothing* about any other player in the game! You have not said who you think might be guilty. You have not said who you think might be innocent. You have not found anything suspicious. You have said nothing, in 17 posts, productive about anyone else. Yet today you have been more than willing to let drop hints about a role you allegedly have. Does this not seem in any way incongruous to you?

STOP CHANGING MY WORDS!

I DID NOT want to drop the hints, but since a couple of votes got on me about my lurking, and it was for role-related reasons, what was I susposed to do? Lie about external circumstances? I just mentioned that I was waiting on a response back from the mod.
And as to why I haven't been judging anyone else, it's because I have been busy defending myself from you. In fact, I really believe you scummy right now because of the fact that you are changing what I said.

Vote: EmpTyger

[EmpTyger]

Iammars:

STOP CHANGING MY WORDS!

I DID NOT want to drop the hints, but since a couple of votes got on me about my lurking, and it was for role-related reasons, what was I susposed to do? Lie about external circumstances? I just mentioned that I was waiting on a response back from the mod.<snip>

Stop right here. I haven't changed your words:

To tell you the truth I completly forgot about the game. Probably 'cause some roleblocked me N1, I was waiting on something from the mod.

Why mention the roleblocking at all? If it’s only a mod query you were waiting on, why volunteer that detail? It is absolutely unnecessary to your explanation. (Unless your purpose is to establish details about your role.) So I have described it as wanting to drop hints. I’m not twisting your words: I am describing *exactly* what you’ve done. If you don’t like the description, you have only yourself to blame.

And as to why I haven't been judging anyone else, it's because I have been busy defending myself from you. In fact, I really believe you scummy right now because of the fact that you are changing what I said.

Vote: EmpTyger

I’m interpreting your *actions*, not your words. You seem to have been extremely noncontributive this game, *except* when in comes to role details. This isn’t a matter of changing your words. This is a verifiable fact based on your actions, as I spelled out in [243].

And forgive my scorm, but the rest of your defense is silly? Too busy defending yourself to participate? This is a mafia game; that’s what every single player is supposed to be doing! Considering your effort researching some examples on another site, I don’t see how that excuses you from doing analysis. “Lie about external circumstances” is a nice straw man. What you should have done in response to being [rightly] called on suspicious behavior was to provide as full an explanation as necessary for why you are acting in a manner seeming to hurt the town more than help it.

I am speculating that you are mafia. That last night, based on the roles revealed Day 1, you and your fellow mafia decided on what to feign. That this morning, you began to lay some carefully crafted claim, so that if you were forced to claim in the future, the basis would have been so well-established that it would seem that much more believable. But that you were overeager in your initial attempt to establish your false identity, causing you to get caught. And that you now face a dilemma: fake a claim that won’t be believed, or try somehow to discredit your accuser with a desperate counteraccusation.

If you have some alternate explanation which better accounts for your actions to date, let me hear it. Though it’ll have to be extremely convincing for me to overlook your falsely accusing me of distorting your words.

[Iammars]

What you are saying is that I WANT to reveal my role now. I don't. What I want is the pressure off of me, and being the good town member that I am, I'm not lying to get the pressure off of my back. I'm coming clean with the town on why my posting dropped off yesterday. If you have a problem with me telling the truth, come out and say it right now that you want me to spew lies. But I have a weird feeling that you don't want me to. One of those feelings I've developed over the last year.
And as to me defending myself and not commenting on other players, this is a major discussion going on here, and is what my focus is on ATM. The research done on another site wasn't really anything. That setup is pratically memorized in my head as I was following it pratically 24/7. I'm sure that there is a similar role on this site, but I'd have to go searching for it.
I'll claim @ 6 votes. I have 3 ATM.

[Iammars]

Oh, and Merry Christmas.

[PeaceBringer]

Is there something to the "D's" I missed?

Seconded. People are voting for me, and the only reason given is 'you're scum'. When I asked for proof I got nothing.

voting based on voting segement you were in on the previous lynches and your behavior.
Nothing much else to say about it. I don't like the Role fishing going on witht he Iammars vote.