Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[Cyberbob]

Don't give me that, you're almost literally saying "hmmm yase if this person were to not die this town shure would be in trouble!!!" If you don't see the potential ramifications of that kind of thing then I don't know what to tell you.

It's terribly anti town at the very least.

[RedCoyote]

What was confusing about farside/Korlash?

Exactly what I said was. One of them was arguing about whether the other was supposed to have seen something happen before in a game that took place several months ago or not. Perhaps, in your infinite knowledge, you were easily able to decipher the meaning and merit of the argument without hesitation. I, on the other hand, saw it as trivial and confusing.

The bias I might have would be for finding your scum play transparent before more than anything. when you feel like you've nailed someone you get a feeling of wanting to do that again.

You admit this at your own peril, then.

Two weeks is a hell of a lot of time btw, as you yourself state in the same post, somewhat contradictorily, so deadline-inefficiency is not an argument at this point

Look, more power to you. As I said, you shouldn't necessarily be criticized for speaking your mind, I'm just pointing out the obvious: You spent a disproportional amount of time attempting to sully my name when I think that time could've been been better spent weighing the progression of the top tier wagons before us. You did this knowingly, as you volunteered to replace in, and you did this under the previous admission that you could possibly be suffering from some sort of meta-bias on one player in the game (not that I argue that's why you entered the game, but that you knew making your first "real" post the struggle, to put it mildly, that it'd take to not only subvert the game's historical wagon progression, but to literally pull another candidate up from nowhere).

And that's what makes me raise an eyebrow, not the two week thing.

I don't understand your last sentence's function. Are you criticizing me for it or not? Is it bad/scummy play to jump on you in the meanwhile or not?

No, especially now that you've clarified your stance a bit. I think it's in bad form to turn a blind eye to the major wagons as though they the don't deserve any sort of prioritized attention. This is more of a theoretical argument though, so it's nothing to write home about.

I should mention that the issue is somewhat ironically compounded by the fact that you replaced Runner. At least for the first roughly 20 pages, as you've no doubt noticed given how understandably fixated you are with my posts, had I been given the opportunity to lynch anyone I wanted, the top two candidates would've likely been Kat and Runner.

I didn't give meaningful opinions on nearly a majority. not even a third.

I didn't literally count the number of players you touched on (this is the verb I used, by the way. It's a far cry from "meaningful opinion". Was this purposeful or is this a misunderstanding?), but you brought up several different names in what seemed like a majority of players.

---

I made a huge Iso on someone who had no one looking funny at him. People generally ignored it.

Sure, but what have you done lately, friend?

And, let's be honest, it's not exactly like your case was all that groundbreaking when it was fresh. Had you have been a little more active, well, who knows? As it stands though, we're not

really

talking about a nocase lynch.

---

The meta argument that convinced people seemed incorrect to me.

This isn't the argument.

This isn't the argument.
This isn't the argument.
This isn't the argument.

I've said it thrice before, which you apparently didn't catch because you haven't gotten there yet, and I'll say it again for you. Hell, I'll probably have to say it again for Poker, too. Cyberbob, yabba, and DGB all attempted to write the entire wagon off as some meta trick, but that's absolutely not the case at all. I swear to goodness if I hear this lame attempt at undercutting the werewolf wagon one more time I'm going to absolutely lose it.

RedCoyote, did you take a look at the game farside linked?

No, I didn't. Honestly the game makes little difference to me. Meta arguments are so-so at best in my eyes. I was more concerned over his reaction to you and his reluctance to standup for himself.

If NO, how can you have so little curiosity as town on something that you think was a big find/would not want to verify it yourself?

I had no reason to. If it was inaccurate, werewolf would've called farside out. I'm not prescribing a set townie reaction either. At the very least he could've said the entire meta argument was invalid from the outset. He could've flowed with her and pointed to other games where he's acted differently. He could've went on offense against farside or someone else entirely. The sky's the limit here. What he chooses to do, instead, is ask for her to be modkilled and then effectively ignores the issue. When pressed, he calls everyone who's voting him scum and has yet to really return.

Now that's some trifecta of horrible, horrible reactions, if I do say so myself.

As come for the bs excuse, actually don't find werewolf's "is that a modkill" a bs excuse at all, and most of all it is one that is easily verifiable. I just searched 5 minutes on msutils and indeed found a very recent modkill on werewolf on an ongoing in an exactly similar situation, linking to another ongoing game, where werewolf was clearly burnt for ignorance.

What difference does this make? Modkilling, or the threat thereof, is in just about every ruleset ever put forth by a modern MS Mod. All Mods are different, just like all people, and have different degrees of latitude for rule violations. If being modkilled gives you an excuse to start pushing it on others, then does successfully lurking in one game give you an excuse to do it in all games? This is just a bastardized version of "if Johnny jumps off a bridge, would you?"

The point is, you have werewolf clamoring for a modkill as opposed to him defending himself, defending his meta, attacking farside, or attacking anyone else. That's not townie sounding, not by a long shot.

I will make one concession. In that quote you pulled, I shouldn't have specifically quoted that sentence from farside. That game honestly had nothing to do with the point I was making, so I take at least that amount of the blame for the laziness (or intentional deriding) you, Cyberbob, yabba, and DGB presented us with.

---

@yabba:

5
3
1
1

---

uh, looking at my last two posts, total bullshit?
I just isoed the 2 biggest wagons for god's sake and said to further research the reactions to gorrad soon.

You did nothing of the sort. You called the case against werewolf a meta case and you said that Spyrex's original case against Gorrad was unconvincing. It has evolved since then. Both of them have, really.

---

/apathy

What the fuck?

You're were in the majority wagon. You were at the head and a significant part of its formation. Why would you "apathetically" swing off of it and onto the Gorrad wagon? Why would you not elaborate?

You just absolutely killed any town creditability you built up in my eyes at the mid-part of this day, Antihero. I hope your apathy is worth that.

---

How many votes does werewolf have now?

How about you actually engage people for a change?

[Kublai Khan]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 11

"Punishment is now unfashionable... because it creates moral distinctions among men, which, to the democratic mind, are odious. We prefer a meaningless collective guilt to a meaningful individual responsibility."

- Thomas Szasz

Gorrad

- 8 - iamausername, Cyberbob, DrippingGoofball, SpyreX, Antihero, inHimshallibe, yabbaguy, nocase

werewolf555

- 6 - Chevre, farside22, RedCoyote, Dutch one, Korlash, curiouskarmadog

Chevre

- 2 - Seraphim, Xalxe

nocase

- 2 - Gorrad, werewolf555

DrippingGoofball

- 1 - Kmd4390

RedCoyote

- 1 - Weatherman

Players not voting:

PokerFace

Notes/Prods

:
- iamausername is V/LA until weekend
- Seraphim (Looking for a replacement)
- PokerFace is sick and will be posting in a limited manner for next few days
- Will Prod: {Kmd4390}
- Current Deadline: Thursday, February 17, 2011 -- 6:00am EST

[Korlash]

There is something to be said for it, in all honesty.

Not that I'd be sad at all to see WW go but after fighting tooth and nail for this sonsabitch being right is going to bring down the furies.

Man I knew it. You've only been pushing the Gorrad thing all day long so you can walk tall tomorrow talking 'bout how you 'called scum on page three' holler! God that's pathetic. At least don't make it so obvious with the constant "yeah WW would be a good wagon too, I'd be fine with that, sure go ahead" stuff... sad really... I'd expect this type of thing from me, but you?

[DrippingGoofball]

Three more for the Gorrad lynch, thanks ahead!

[farside22]

Vote: Dutch One

So KK doesn't need to find a replacement D1.

DGB, I want you to claim. I don't care if it's real or fake, your claims are fantastic and often game-changing, and

I don't want you to be NK'd before you have the chance to turn this game on its head

.

Why are you assuming with your first post that DGB is town?

Chevre isn't looking good. I agree with Shakespeare-scum tell and non-committal posts-tell, so let's see if we can hammer at one of those.

Did someone state that following and parroting was a scum tell make an ass out of himself here?

I really don't like Gorrad's hypocrosy on people's cases. He's made one case (as of Jan 26, 8pm PST) and it was against cyberbob for following.
post 495 why did you notice only nocase doing this. I saw wolf doing this, xaxle seems to leak into the background. I'm sure I'm missing a few others doing similar in the beginning.

I thought the wagon was a terrible idea until it was already at the very end of it's run and I realized what it was. If I had voted then, I think I would have lynched (or at least nearly so).

I assume this is about Cherve. I saw only one post you mention him by basically parroting DGB.

We have the noncase post by post. I had a few issues with that but really the summary is the same in which nocase is scum for bw, following, parroting, but others have done the same so is that really a case.

I think I know what damned gorrad in the first place with spyrex and I'm ashamed it took me 3 rereads to see it.

unvote:
vote: Gorrad

[DrippingGoofball]

L-2, claim time, bahhhhhhhbeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[Kublai Khan]

Xtoxm replaces Seraphim effective immediately.

[Xalxe]

I am willing to vote for/hammer Gorrad post-claim. I believe this wagon is better than the werewagon.

Also, hi Xtoxm! Star-studded playerlist in here much?

[Dutch one]

alright.. the WW-wagon is death now (while he never defended himself with good arguments). I will probably vote him again tomorrow, but he isn't going to be todays lynch anymore. I would've prefered to see a WW lynch, but Gorrad was either at my possible scum list, so I'm fine with a Gorrad-lynch as well.

VOTE: Gorrad

Only one more vote to lynch

[DrippingGoofball]

Claim-time is red hot... unvoting ONLY to avoid a quicklynch.

UNVOTE:

[Dutch one]

why do you unvote? You want to lynch him, so I don't really understand why. Could you explain me?

[DrippingGoofball]

Because Gorrad needs to claim. I don't want someone to show up with the hammer and say "but I didn't know he was at l-1!!!!!! bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"

[Xalxe]

I'll let DGB take this one.

P-edit: dammit

[RedCoyote]

You'll be sorry! You'll all be sorry!

Kidding, of course, but I am bitter over the lack of any real debate between these two acceptable wagons.

[Xalxe]

Okay, why don't you agree with my choice?

[RedCoyote]

What, Chevre? I don't like the case against Chevre. I've explained why I thought the vig shot aftermath was so laughably concocted and bordering on scummy for the actual perpetrators rather than Chevre herself.

Other than that, I've failed to see any new developments since, like, page 9.

[Xalxe]

Okay, backtrack, which two wagons are you referring to?

[RedCoyote]

Gorrad and werewolf. What else?

[Xalxe]

Okay, then answer my question, this time understanding that "my choice" now refers to Gorrad.

[curiouskarmadog]

alright.. the WW-wagon is death now (while he never defended himself with good arguments). I will probably vote him again tomorrow, but he isn't going to be todays lynch anymore. I would've prefered to see a WW lynch, but Gorrad was either at my possible scum list, so I'm fine with a Gorrad-lynch as well.

VOTE: Gorrad

Only one more vote to lynch

wait you have been attacking DGB all day now you are voting with her.....have a mentioned this guy is probably scum?

[Xalxe]

Your logic is flawed.

[RedCoyote]

Um, I'm really not all that sure what you're asking me. I didn't think you supported either wagon, but if you're saying that you favor the Gorrad wagon, then I'd say it's a good coincidence that you're siding with the apparent majority. I'm disappointed that you'd choose that, but it's better than letting you vote grow moss on Seraphim.

[curiouskarmadog]

you think I only think dutch is scum because of the above post?

[RedCoyote]

Er, Chevre* rather.