Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[Weatherman]

Well, Weatherman, it's difficult, if not impossible, to put yourself in that same situation. It's a more than a little out of context to label me as feigning emotions, given that a fair number of "psyche-outs" and reaction fishing attempts have happened throughout the game.

Let's cut the crap on generalities. What was confusing about farside/Korlash?

Anyways, I'm having a hard time stomaching the amount of gut feelings in your overall case. You say that the things I say don't feel like things a townie would say and compare me to two different players I've never played with before. I don't recall having played with you before either, even though you propose to know a great deal about what you think I would or wouldn't say as a townie. I hope you won't take offensive to me writing off your case as little more than some false meta supposition, something that I'd argue you had little context with which to judge me on.

I'm an alt, which I actually did state but I don't blame you for missing that. I know you.
The bias I might have would be for finding your scum play transparent before more than anything. when you feel like you've nailed someone you get a feeling of wanting to do that again.
The fact that you haven't played with vollkan/netopalis is completely irrelevant btw, I was more gathering from others whether you really belong to that school of play nowadays.

Moreover, you undercut your own attempt at building a new wagon from the ground up (

with less than two weeks until our deadline, no less

) by admitting to us that you don't have a firm handle on your reread. You shouldn't be criticized for this necessarily, but I think you would be better served having at least that knowledge of the game should you insist on coming after me.

The worst part, however, the part that actually may be valid grounds with which to criticize you on, is your ignorance of why werewolf and Gorrad at least are where they are in the vote count.

I've been very open on having trouble getting myself to read everything.
Two weeks is a hell of a lot of time btw, as you yourself state in the same post, somewhat contradictorily, so deadline-inefficiency is not an argument at this point

But you have plenty of time, so I look forward to future analysis.

I couldn't get strong reads either way from Gorrad/werewolf from skimming the first 20 pages, and also openly stated I hadn't taken real positions and I needed to get a grip and force myself to catch up all the way.
In the meanwhile I'm going with what comes to my mind, it's better than shutting up.
I don't understand your last sentence's function. Are you criticizing me for it or not? Is it bad/scummy play to jump on you in the meanwhile or not?

To be fair, though, I'll give you props for touching on a majority of the players.

I didn't give meaningful opinions on nearly a majority. not even a third.

[curiouskarmadog]

pretty sure I unvoted mod...

also, hoping to update after super bowl

[Gorrad]

Ok, nocase wagon has gone nowhere. I'll do that WW iso like I promised when I have a second to breathe. The last two weeks have been ridiculous ><.

Yeah, your vague promise to iso ONLY the current vote leader and easy lynch is soooooooo townie

*cough* *cough*

I made a huge Iso on someone who had no one looking funny at him. People generally ignored it. So yeah, I'm going to see if this wagon has any merit.

[PokerFace]

Hey did gorrad comment on/ read chevre's big post?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2743867
He did, and that's all he said!? What strikes me as odd is did he ever vote chevre? He didn't do it then And he hasn't all game

_____

elaborating on reads

Scumish

Gorrad

: his treatment of chavre despite not voting him, looks like mudslining and trying to avoid the blame. I didn't like his second vote being himself

werewolf

: kinda does the same thing when he points out something but doesn't know why. Looks like he was just trying to copy others to stay hidden
Basically werewolf and gorrads behavior toward chevre seems simular. Like they are working together to get rid of him. i am a little torn on how to view chevre given the language they use is too sophisticated for me

inhim

: I still see him as looking bad from the post restriction thing since he seemed to verify nocases pr statement. Everybody was all like this must be a joke given the rules but he's all like its true its real because I have one too... NOT!

Town

DGB

: I have had the misfortune of playing against DGB alot. The majority of the games I have been in with her, one of us has been scum and the other has been town. Us both being town happens rarely and we have never been scum together. She nearly destroyed me in loser mafia and I wish i had voted differently in the invitational. He play here does not feel like the scum play I would normally expect from her. She seems to be going after who she thinks is scum as apposed to easiest to lynch

spryeX and red coyote

also look town to me. they seem to be working with a pro town inititive. Red wanting to hear from KMD before making a quick choice and SpyreX hunting of gorrad and sera look good

At page 16

I'll vote when all caught u

[Weatherman]

Hey guys
I took a look at werewolf555 and currently think that it's a crap wagon.
The scummy thing would be the edge on chevre and switch on popular wagons. The timing seemed to be following. (chevre=>Gorrad) werewolf's site wide activity at the time actually doesn't give additional evidence towards that though (no other mafia game posts from just before chevre's China Wall until 20 minutes before he posted here again a couple of days later). could be opportunistic scum, but I'm pretty sure he always plays dumb and inattentive from browsing his sitewide profile (remember that guy a couple months ago flooding GD with those stupid applause video clips? proper annoying flooding? that's our guy.), is being targeted too easily by other real bad arguments, and any outsde references of his I've checked sum up as honest/reactions seem real.
The meta argument that convinced people seemed incorrect to me.

Also, I who did I set eyes on immediately at the wagon's birth moments? MY FAVORITE PERSON REDCOYOTE

As you can see from the finished game that wolf was town he scum hunted more and actually made cases instead of following the crowd as he is here.

I feel like farside just found something big on werewolf. I wouldn't be crying if werewolf took a lynch here.
I don't like werewolf's reaction. I would've felt much better if he said that each game was an island and told farside to come off her cloud. As it stands though, farside looks as though she unearthed something important and werewolf comes across as a guilty child trying to look for a bs excuse to get out of it (I don't mean this derogatively, werewolf, I just mean to give an image of how it is playing in my head).

Unvote

;

vote: werewolf555

It makes a very interesting game, by the way. I forgot to mention this earlier.

"Big find" is powerful rhetorics.
RedCoyote, did you take a look at the game farside linked?
If YES, explain how exactly could you think it was a big find on werewolf? He was lynched D1, posted relatively rarely, contradicted himself, in other words based on that game I don't agree with farside's meta at all although I do think she's town.
If NO, how can you have so little curiosity as town on something that you think was a big find/would not want to verify it yourself?

As come for the bs excuse, actually don't find werewolf's "is that a modkill" a bs excuse at all, and most of all it is one that is easily verifiable. I just searched 5 minutes on msutils and indeed found a very recent modkill on werewolf on an ongoing in an exactly similar situation, linking to another ongoing game, where werewolf was clearly burnt for ignorance.
Why didn't

you

?

[Weatherman]

I also iso'd Gorrad. Reaction from just the iso? Pretty fmuch a null. I don't really feel spyreX's original case, but there's nothing very townish either. I'll take a look at the context and the wagon when I feel like reading more.

[DrippingGoofball]

I also iso'd Gorrad. [...] Pretty fmuch a null.

That's because he's scum. Please vote him ASAP.

[yabbaguy]

Bringing the votecount back, slicing everyone who's standing alone on a vote. (Take the hint- loners should strongly consider a swap at this point)

werewolf555 - 7 - Antihero, Chevre, farside22, RedCoyote, Dutch one, inHimshallibe, nocase
Gorrad - 4 - iamausername, Cyberbob, DrippingGoofball, SpyreX
Chevre - 3 - Seraphim, yabbaguy, Xalxe
nocase - 2 - Gorrad, werewolf555

At this point, we're in a mode where some people, myself included, are screaming at a brick wall that our lynch choice is best without making progress. *glare at DGB*

Regardless of how extroverted everyone has been about their stances, my proposal is that we all rate the wagons 1 through 5, 1 meaning we'd categorically avoid it D1, 5 meaning we're begging for this lynch to happen. It's informative for later, we can gauge where the pulse of the Town really is (maybe we'd support a lynch more if we knew people liked it) etc.

Like this:

werewolf - 1: I won't deny werewolf's been shady and floundering the whole time, but I believe him to be nothing but lazy and a poor scumhunter. Nothing I've seen is directly scum motivated. You need to realize that werewolf, just by glancing at his Wiki, is quickly becoming everyone's favorite lynch. I don't see anything directly scum-motivated from his actions, I can see him still taking stances amidst his madness. Avoid him please, I refuse to participate in a VI lynch right now.
Gorrad - 3: This I could live with. I'm still not entirely sold on it, but his interactions with my top scum suspects are weird somewhat. It's really not one I'm sure of at all, so it's a complacency lynch.
Chevre - 5
nocase - 2: Contingent on Chevre-scum. The order really should be the right way around.

[DrippingGoofball]

werewold - 1: easy VI lynch.
nocase - 1: a townie
Gorrad - 5: scum
Chevre - 3: meh, she may be a weirdo.

[Korlash]

DGB: I have had the misfortune of playing against DGB alot. The majority of the games I have been in with her, one of us has been scum and the other has been town. Us both being town happens rarely and we have never been scum together. She nearly destroyed me in loser mafia and I wish i had voted differently in the invitational. He play here does not feel like the scum play I would normally expect from her. She seems to be going after who she thinks is scum as apposed to easiest to lynch

So... are you admitting to being scum then? Honestly, that's how I read this...

SpyreX hunting of gorrad and sera look good

Ahh I see. you meant to say, look crap... I see where we got confused there. Ok back on track...

Still we can hang Spy later,

Unvote:

Vote: werewolf

It's the only way to go at this point. he jumps onto each of the popular votes without adding a thing to either of them. His vote on Sera came with observation and reasoning, yet his plugs onto the Chev and Gorrad wagon came with crap and squat. he has gotten more active since being attacked, yet the best contribution he can give to the game is constantly being wrong about stuff. Intentional or not it's anti-town either way.

I'll admit I'm sure I'm missing some of the better points against Gorrad, it can't possible all be the crap Spy's been rolling in all game. But from what I have seen, he's nothing compared to WW. Die scum die, etc... You're pal Korlash. Dictated but not read.

- Korlash is still contributing precisely nothing other than rambling joke posts with like ten words of import.

Damn, ten? My bad... I'll start cutting back immediately.

[yabbaguy]

Korl, it's a 1 on the others?

[Korlash]

no. Will a meaningless arbitrary number on something make up for an unclear stance on it all game? no? Then what's the point? If anyone is going to put a wagon at "1" on your scale, they already made it clear. if anyone is going to put it at "5" they already made that clear. I don't get what you think you will accomplish here.

[nocase]

please finish off werewolf.

[SpyreX]

The great issue with WW is in the reads and that would be a fine shot/rope/space mutant.

However, I'd MUCH rather if there's a pigs chance in hell of it happening in the next 10 pages see Gorrad lynched. I guarantee you there's more sweet delicious data there either way and on a scum flip its freaking candyland.

[iamausername]

Hey all, super V/LA right now. Should hopefully be able to get a half decent post later today, then I'll probably have no access at all until Friday.

After that I'm moving in with my girlfriend, who does not yet have internet, but I'll get a start on sorting that out when I'm up there Tuesday to Thursday, so hopefully it won't take long before I'm back in action. Cheers!

just in case I need to bold text to make the mod read it:

Mod: mark me down as V/LA for the next week

[curiouskarmadog]

gotback much later than I planned last night...this will be updted today

[RedCoyote]

username, don't forget to vote werewolf before you leave.

I will respond to Weatherman later. I see he's trying to pull some technicalities on me rather than focus on the big picture here.

[Weatherman]

uh, looking at my last two posts, total bullshit?
I just isoed the 2 biggest wagons for god's sake and said to further research the reactions to gorrad soon.
I have stated that I'm not interested in lynching werewolf or chevre or nocase right now.
"technicalities" should be easy to explain if you view it as that, so I'm waiting for your swift reply.

[Korlash]

However, I'd MUCH rather if there's a pigs chance in hell of it happening in the next 10 pages see Gorrad lynched. I guarantee you there's more sweet delicious data there either way and on a scum flip its freaking candyland.

you're one off those "50 no's and a yes is still a yes" type of guys aren't you?

[Cyberbob]

Regardless of how extroverted everyone has been about their stances, my proposal is that we all rate the wagons 1 through 5, 1 meaning we'd categorically avoid it D1, 5 meaning we're begging for this lynch to happen. It's informative for later, we can gauge where the pulse of the Town really is (maybe we'd support a lynch more if we knew people liked it) etc.

Like this:

werewolf - 1: I won't deny werewolf's been shady and floundering the whole time, but I believe him to be nothing but lazy and a poor scumhunter. Nothing I've seen is directly scum motivated. You need to realize that werewolf, just by glancing at his Wiki, is quickly becoming everyone's favorite lynch. I don't see anything directly scum-motivated from his actions, I can see him still taking stances amidst his madness. Avoid him please, I refuse to participate in a VI lynch right now.
Gorrad - 3: This I could live with. I'm still not entirely sold on it, but his interactions with my top scum suspects are weird somewhat. It's really not one I'm sure of at all, so it's a complacency lynch.
Chevre - 5
nocase - 2: Contingent on Chevre-scum. The order really should be the right way around.

werewolf - 2. Obvious easy wagon but better than nothing to free up the more idiotic votes for the real wagons in later days.
Gorrad - 5
Chevre - 2. I'm ambivalent. Would kind of serve a similar purpose to a werewolf lynch in that it would give all the tunnellers something else to look at.
nocase - 1. Still need to read into that one but right now it's a useless distraction.

[inHimshallibe]

Completely gone for the weekend. Happy Super Bowl indeed... :money:

[farside22]

5 wolf
2 gorrad
1 chevre
1 nocase

This week starts my read of everyone by iso. I will have a bit of everyone I can get to. I will get to some today (probably not much) and a few over the next few days.

[DrippingGoofball]

MOAR GORRAD VOATS PLZ

[DrippingGoofball]

The scum isn't bus'ing, we're going to need to lynch Gorrad without the scum's help.

[inHimshallibe]

5
5
5
1 (nocase)