Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[Furcolow]

A case like that doesn't hold much merit on day 1.

Sheeping/bandwagoning a GOOD CASE is not a scum tell in the slightest. It's also pretty hard to scum hunt from your first few posts on day 1, and not something you even want everyone doing or mass confusion ensues. Changing his read suddenly on Furc seems something that town is more likely to do imo. Iso5 is just you twisting his post to seem scummy.

The connection to gonnano is a decent point, but it's still a stretch and not something to base a day 1 lynch on. The case on ThAd is meh. It's just not strong enough for me. I'd rather lynch those players who have made major slips or been actually really scummy such as PI/Furc and now JMJ.

Yeah, and I also agree with him when he said his iso 21 was an attempt to appear town
that is what caused me to realize this might be ad's town play. I will see if we have any relevant breakthroughs in which I will want to vote him, but I doubt I'll pursue wagonning him at this time. The case isn't bad, but it just feels like it isn't right to me. Very nice attempt, +town points, but I'm not sheeping it.

If you want to wagon bvoigt or gonnano, someone who appears to be buddying him to you, though, I would be a little more interested. Much moreso on gonnano, as bvoigt has kept his nose relatively clean.

[Furcolow]

Read his entire iso. Pay particular attention to the last few posts. Then see if your question still makes sense.

I'm dense. Please explain.

Anyway, after reading LMP's case and doing a more thorough ISO, I'd say ThAd is fairly likely to be scum. While PI is still my first choice, this is a much better alternative to lynching jmj.

UNVOTE: PoisonIvy
VOTE: ThAdmiral

I really don't like this post
1) could be bussing
2) defends jmj on day 1, useless
3) late to get off PI bandwagon, into another bandwagon and sheeping
this is the first post I've seen from bvoigt I didn't like, though he has been making my gut twinge
I retract that I would jump onto gonnano faster, I would be willing to wagon bvoigt due to his lack of scumhunting, and his inability to vote for someone on his own.

FoS BVOIGT

[LimMePls]

It's good to finally see a real case on Thad. That's what I've been looking for since people started voting him. I have to say, there's quite a bit there even when I leave out the pieces that rely on me being scum -- and even those I could see having merit from the perspective of someone who doesn't know my role PM.

So far, I could see myself potentially voting PI, Jmj, or Thad (in order of preference) if the deadline was getting close.

Since it isn't, though, I want to try again to get everyone to take a look at Lowell. Every part of his play is about flying under the radar. He's done some minimal analysis of GW, but other than that his posts have seemed to be mostly placeholders to maintain a pretense of involvement. If you read what he's written, though, it's obvious that he isn't engaged in this game at all.

As an example of the play that I'm describing, just look at his response to my vote. He answers in such a way that no new information is brought to light, no new points are raised, and none of my original points are really even answered, yet somehow the discussion has been closed. He even pushes some accusation of OMGUS voting my way. All of this is very effective scum play, geared towards isolating himself from the discussion while still appearing to be an active player. By ignoring the majority of the arguments that are happening, he limits both the information that is presented to the town and the chance that he will be accused of something.

I don't know if this is all in my head or what, but I really can't see why no one else is finding this guy even mildly suspicious.

This guy is also scum.

Too many awesome choices.

[Furcolow]

why do you view that as "this guy is scum", LMP?
I actually feel like he made a good push, it is scumhunting, and though it ends weakly I feel that it is more a result of how stretching his case

appears

to be.

[LimMePls]

The fact that he is like "Ya ya, all those other wagons are good too, but what about..." when it's already been demonstrated that he is distancing himself from ThAd. Particularly with this statement from myself:

Our lynch today should be one of jmj or ThAd. Any other wagons that form (or get sudden boosts from nowhere) in the interim without REALLY good justification are going to look to me like counter wagons.

I do not think he is providing REALLY good justification. The fact that he feels the need to be all "ya, those wagons are good, BUT" makes it worse.

To be as specific as possible, it is THIS BIT:

So far, I could see myself potentially voting PI, Jmj, or Thad (in order of preference) if the deadline was getting close.

That makes him scum.

It doesn't hurt that his case is basically just a lurker case, and since Lowell ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS plays this way, it boils down to a policy case. Either of which isn't very persuasive to me, and just looks like trying to distract us from what we're doing right now.

[bvoigt]

@Furc: I've done plenty of scumhunting on PI and gonnano, but I just didn't think there was enough support to lynch either of them. But maybe there's more support for a gonnano lynch than I thought. Let's try this:

UNVOTE: ThAdmiral
VOTE: gonnano

[LlamaFluff]

Man I love LMP.

Yeah I would love a death of gonnano or Thad.

unvote
Vote Thad

[Furcolow]

I have seen ad as scum, and I don't believe this is it, but if I'm wrong it won't really surprise me

too much

, as I have no idea as of his alignment other than what my heart is telling me. I don't feel like he would alter his play by being pressured as town to the point where he would read as scum, though, so I actually like him being pressured. However, I won't be voting him, and I'm happy putting my vote back on gonnano, even though I don't even really find him to be

that

suspicious.

I disagree that only jmj or TheAd should be up for lynch. How many players do we have again? How many scum? We shouldn't do into this with tunnel-vision, LMP, and you have to admit it is far more town to scumhunt, pressure, and counterwagon than it is to sheep/bandwagon, dont you think?

If it is getting close to deadline, I would be ok voting theadmiral just to secure a lynch, but I'm just not reading him as being scum. Bvoigt is right on there being a lot of support vocally for a gonnano lynch (See the above post), without people

actually voting

what's up with that?
if you're going to say he has associative tells with people, then by all means. If you believe that, I actually would give TheAdmiral another looking at considering his "he's a good wagon BUT... i'm going to wait for more information"

even if i am kinda doing that right now, I would have wagon analysis and i'm assuming that gonnano will flip scum... in which case a couple of people will be screaming incrimination to me, even thadmiral. Given that I have been reading him as town, I feel this is null at the time, but if gonnano flips scum, I would be more than willing to lynch thadmiral. Perhaps I should just flip flop them? Lynch theadmiral now, and if he's scum, lynch gonnano?

The reason I

don't

want to do this is because scum buddy town, not vice versa so much

/rant

[Sotty7]

Day I, Vote Count VIIII

PoisonIvy - 3 -

XScorpion, Beasts of the Sea, RedCoyote

bvoigt - 1 -

Stephoscope

Furcolow - 2 -

Sathoris, Feysal

ThAdmiral - 4 -

nachomma8, EGL, LynchMePls, LlamaFluff

XScorpion - 1 -

PoisonIvy

GhostWriter - 3 -

ThAdmiral, Lowell, InflatablePie

Feysal - 1 -

Scott Brosius

Lowell - 1 -

gonnano

InflatablePie - 1 -

Artem

gonnano - 2 -

Furcolow, bvoigt

jmj3000 - 3 -

DavidParker, Ghostwriter, smargaret

Not Voting - 2 -

jmj3000, Fuzzyman

With twenty-four of you alive thirteen votes will lynch. The day will end on Sunday February 20th at 9am GMT.

Feysal replaces pappums rat

[LimMePls]

Furcolow - 2 - Sathoris, Feysal

I don't see any posts from Feysal in this game. Am I going crazy?

[Sathoris]

It's cause he replaced rat and he had his vote on furc.

Unvote

Not entirely content, but wasted as it is.

[Feysal]

I replaced into this game half an hour ago, so no wonder you can't see any posts from me.

I have quite a bit of reading to do, but for now I'll unvote, since I have no idea yet what my predecessor's vote was about.

Unvote: Furcolow

Preview edit: beaten by Sathoris. No matter.

[ThAdmiral]

@Thad - To just get one thing out of what LMP said answered for sure - Can you explain how your Furc read has progressed?

Thought he was probably town---thought he may have scumslipped---realised it may not have been a scumslip---think he is probably town

@ lmp - Instead of trying to rebut each and every point I am going to address what I believe are the main features of your case against me which, and correct me if I am wrong, are:
a) I have done little to no scumhunting
b) I have been sheeping
c) I have been jumping on wagons
d) I have had suspicious interactions with gonnano

The first three are linked so I will address them together.
I will begin by saying it is true that I haven't been actively scumhunting in the traditional sense. I will not deny that. However I believe there are logical and reasonable causes for this. Firstly people been quite astute in pointing out things that I find suspicious; multiple people spoke of PoisonIvy's lack of properly explaining why she thought the Soviets were scum in this game; Sathoris brought up the fact that mafia could daytalk for the first 24 hours, which cast Furculow's comments about coaching in bad light; InflatablePie picked up on GhostWriter's lack of voting. I realise I have not been personally responsible for finding any suspicious vote-worthy activity on my own, but the simple reason is I haven't had to - at all points in the game I was adequately happy with where my vote lay, and so never felt compelled to actively search for alternatives.
Secondly I believe, in general, that I am not all that much of a scumhunter. I certainly do it, but I am pretty sure if you looked over my history I have more often been inclined to pick and choose from what I believe are the best cases rather than submit ones of my own.
In any case I think it is unfair to say I have simply been jumping on bandwagons; I have offered my opinion on nearly all the major cases in this game and there are some I like and some that I do not (as an obvious example the Furculow wagon, other than when I momentarily joined it!). Also to note is the fact that I clearly haven't been party to all the wagon's that have occurred, and I would even argue that I pushed the GhostWriter wagon rather than simply jumped on it.

As far as the interactions with Gonnano I would argue that you might be reading too much in to something that isn't there. I realize that when I say something like "he's a good person to look at tomorrow" (as opposed to, say, voting him/pushing for his lynch today) there is no way to prove that I do genuinely intend to do that. But I can assure you Gonnano is right up among my top scum picks with the likes of GhostWriter. The only reason I haven't voted Gonnano up to this point is simply that I have always favored my vote somewhere else. Right now I still favor a GhostWriter lynch over a Gonnano lynch, but if it does get closer to deadline and Gonnano is looking far more likely I will be happy to move my vote.

Anyway I hope that goes some way to explaining where I am coming from in this game. I apologise for the length, I certainly didn't plan for the post to be this long!
If you have any questions feel free to ask away. I have a clear conscience and feel confident that I will be able to answer any queries you have about my play and my motivations to your satisfaction.

[LimMePls]

^^I love how you can admit to the scummy things you've done, but before now acted indignanat when people called you scummy because they didn't spell out why. You even admit to the charges, how can you have found it so odd that others were finding you scummy.

ThAd is still an awesome lynch.

[DavidParker]

Personally I feel ThAd is town and those pushing his wagon are trying to save scum-jmj at this point. Just my gut.

[ThAdmiral]

^^I love how you can admit to the scummy things you've done, but before now acted indignanat when people called you scummy because they didn't spell out why. You even admit to the charges, how can you have found it so odd that others were finding you scummy.

ThAd is still an awesome lynch.

I think you may have misunderstood me.
I admit to doing some of the things you talked about, such as not actively scum-hunting, but I don't admit they were scummy. I explained why I have acted the way I have, and tried to clear up what my motivations have been throughout this game.

[RedCoyote]

Why is Fuzzy roleclaiming at this point? "I am not Soviet or American, but I assure you I am town-sided!"

Well, I should hope so. Because, you know, otherwise we were all just going to assume you'd claim scum.

I hope you have good reason for shoving that bit of information out there out of nowhere for the entire game to see it, Fuzzy. I'd like to hear it now.

I think this recent switch to ThAdmiral is beyond silly. I mean, I just pressured LynchMePls over having his vote on Ivy for an extended period of time, he defends it by lecturing me on how sure he is that Ivy is scum, I agree (and even switch my vote to Ivy because LynchMePls made me realize I had no good reason not to vote her at this point), and then he starts vote hopping? What the hell? Explain yourself, my friend. What has Ivy done recently that has made her seem less likely to be scum now, not two days after you got through telling me you were sure she was scum?

[RedCoyote]

Feysal, you're replacing rat, right?

[RedCoyote]

Nevermind, I just scrolled up and confirmed that.

[RedCoyote]

Sotty, Stephoscope could probably use a prod soon as well, please.

[Furcolow]

Feysal, the length you take to try and break the game will directly influence my read on you.
Welcome to the game, by the way.

[DavidParker]

Furc is hilarious.

Anyways, I won't be happy with a non-JMJ/PI lynch today at this point.

[Sotty7]

Stephoscope has been prodded.

PoisonIvy has till tomorrow to pick up her prod before I replace her

[Furcolow]

Furc is hilarious.

Anyways, I won't be happy with a non-JMJ/PI lynch today at this point.

I'm actually agreeing with this sentiment
Neither one has really added anything substantive to the game

[DavidParker]

The first point I made was not a compliment by the way.