Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[Cyberbob]

VOTE: Gorrad

a good start

now

more

[Weatherman]

Grrrrr. I have been more procrastination inclined than I should have. I thought I nice alt would ease me up for gutsy play, instead it's taking away the social pressure for basic functioning. /prodded, content and rest of catch up coming on Sunday morning.

[DrippingGoofball]

VOTE: Gorrad

a good start

now

more

Specially, SPYREX.

[SpyreX]

Ohh gee I dont know that wagon is

Unvote, Vote: Gorrad

This better not be toying with my emotions.

[SpyreX]

And Yabba:

Give me a synopsis of what was goin on in the head before your entry post AND then what really went on after. Because I'm still missing it - you obviously read BEFORE you posted your first post and then... reread? and changed your mind but didn't.

I dont like but I have this sinking suspicion its more me missing something versus SCUM FOUND (see Gorrad)

[PokerFace]

Ah ok I remember that now. thanks spryeX

I am starting to generate a few town and scum reads at this point so I'm getting somewhere now. disease starting to mfade which is awesome. I got more confidence in who i think is town so i am wondering if this is allowed

@ KHAN!
Am I allowed to proxy my vote? As in let someone else use it til i am all caught up?

[yabbaguy]

@SpyreX: I slopped together a Word document of interactions as I went through, which led to the crap I dragged out in catch-up post #1. It actually was pretty meatless, but I made an attempt at going through each of the pages and jotting down things that stood out.

When it came time to substantiate Chevre, the one I definitely recall being the most sure (hence the caps lock key being firmly down while I pleaded for her lynch), I didn't have anything from my doc that would please the jury. So I ignored it and said, "okay, but I know Chevre was scum. Surely I'll find it amidst the ISO", which I conveyed in post #2. In I went.

nocase fell into my lap at that point, hence the sudden realization and my "changing of mind" at post #3. I changed my mind thinking he was nowhere on my sizeable list, in fact, he rocketted up to the top two. It's solely a contingency case- if Chevre flips Town, all those reasons for him being scum mentioned above dissolve. If people are buying my case, this lynch should be happening now because it has another riding right after it.

@nocase: The niceness reaction happened twice. One was on page 2, but your 45th (ISO-44) post was the other.

And it was the

timing

of the swap. That's where the brickwall hits- you jumped off at a very scum-opportune time.

You trying to slap me (and others?) in the face with the "i love all the vets in this game who think they can call scum teams on day one." line is laughable.

[DrippingGoofball]

yabba, in case you haven't noticed, we're piling votes on Gorrad right now. Do your part, here's the shovel.

[yabbaguy]

VOTE: Gorrad

a good start

now

more

[DrippingGoofball]

UNOFFICIAL PARTIAL VC

werewolf555

- 7 - Antihero, Chevre, farside22, RedCoyote, Dutch one, inHimshallibe, nocase

Gorrad

- 4 - SpyreX, iamausername, Cyberbob, DGB

Chevre

- 3 - Seraphim, yabbaguy, Xalxe

nocase

- 2 - Gorrad, werewolf555

[yabbaguy]

Oh, two people are voting nocase?

Swap please, Gorrad and werewolf. Chevre's better.

[DrippingGoofball]

Oh, two people are voting nocase?

Swap please, Gorrad and werewolf. Chevre's better.

I feel like I'm sipping a mint julep at the Kentucky Derby, sporting a big ole hat with ribbons and silk flowers.

[nocase]

That's where the brickwall hits- you jumped off at a very scum-opportune time.

like i said, confirmation bias.

You trying to slap me (and others?) in the face with the "i love all the vets in this game who think they can call scum teams on day one." line is laughable.

okay. let's both agree to withhold judgment until the game ends or we see the relevant flips.

[RedCoyote]

You know what I realized? Gorrad is lurking just as much as Kmd and Seraphim at this point. I feel for the Mod, and I don't blame him for cutting our deadline. A staggering amount of players are shirking on their responsibilities. That said, the Chevre argument isn't anymore appealing now that yabba has dug up all the same issues most of us had with her back when the game started, so I see no point in resurrecting a crappy wagon that was just an excuse to really get the game rolling. I've been beating around the bush, but in my eyes Chevre has done enough to defend from her detractors since her gigantic post (which was probably the pinnacle of her scumminess, at least speaking for myself).

Gorrad hasn't really changed. He was doing good defending himself against nocase, but when he had the primo opportunity to really get on offense after werewolf slipped up (whether he got on the werewolf wagon or not), he completely dropped the ball.

So, what to do? You have Kmd, Seraphim, and Gorrad, none of them really care much about the game (whether they do or not is irrelevant because actions speak louder than words), and it would be hypocritical of me to try and defend one or two and concentrate my venom on the others. I still have faith in the wolf wagon here, but I just wanted to let everyone important in this game know (you all know who you are) that I am growing more and more impatient with the three aforementioned players.

Also, Cyberbob, I appreciate your catching up post and I think it's pretty good. I keep going back and forth on you, but you're probably town. Don't let me forget I said this later in the game should we spar again at some point.

[Cyberbob]

Also, Cyberbob, I appreciate your catching up post and I think it's pretty good. I keep going back and forth on you, but you're probably town. Don't let me forget I said this later in the game should we spar again at some point.

I'm glad you like it, I generally make a lot of them over the course of a game if there's a great deal of waffling over wagons and toothless sparring going on.

[DrippingGoofball]

Let's lynch Gorrad and vig Seraphim already.

[farside22]

Let's lynch Gorrad and vig Seraphim werewolf already.

I would rather see a vig of werewolf. I truely believe he is scum, if not he is not scum the worst town player in the history and the town's chances of winning or slim to none in my view. I looked at that newb game he actually scum hunted in (you know the one I tell you guys about and no one listens) and they never trusted him.
I'm 95% wolf scum, he does not strike me as stupid in any other game I read of his sooooo....lynch/vig I'm good in my belief.
After I'm done reading some stuff in another game I will have a full scum list for this game this week.

[Weatherman]

Fuck fuck fuck. I just have no motivation to get this game properly read up, specifically from 22 to now. Gotta play it by ear and interaction then I guess.
A couple of notions: DGB, inHim, farside, the Dutch one are extremely non-mafia.
I wasn't really feeling iamausername's case (Antihero was it?) in the early pages but he's imo seriously one of the few greatest players of all times on mafiascum, and underrated, play close attention to his gut if turns out town.

I don't know what to make of this serious cyberbob (serious=safe but that's not necessarily the motivation) - lots of both town and scum feeling moments. The argument with farside was weird.
farside - "cyberbob should know weird isn't scummy, has played with people like DGB and Jack"
cyberbob - "has been a long time since I've played with these specific 2 people, gosh farside"
cyberbob's smart, that isn't.

Why is everyone so confusing this game? Is it just me? I'm not even prepared to touch the farside/Korlash battle. The best I gather, it's an argument over whether one person has seen awkward townie play before or something? Ugh, I feel like this is such a lame start to what could otherwise be a really enjoyable game (although I'll admit I have really been enjoying DGB's posts). That's not to say it won't get better of course.

"I'm so confused" feels scummy. Especially from someone cognitively capable like RedCoyote when there was nothing confusing between farside/Korlash.

I don't really like this progression

Let me preface this by saying that I think I can be persuaded onto the Chevre wagon without much arm twisting. I think Chevre is a little too high strung right now, and it's striking me as panicky. Especially that line about how she can't defend herself unless you formally confront her with a case.

The Best Lynches

Kat
Runner
Antihero

The Okay Lynches

Gorrad
Dutch

Chevre

Cyberbob

I like Chevre's last post. I'm starting to really fail to see how she's the biggest wagon here.

Chevre's big L-1 post happened between those last two quotes. Lots of people commended it, several moved away from the wagon (I think only farside continued arguing), by the time RC commented the opinion was in the general spirit of the momentum. I don't like him saying he can't see how chevre is the biggest wagon when the wagon was formed

before

that post during the time he alleged feeling it too. it strikes me as taking advantage on the fact that he had avoided actually placing his vote on that wagon.

The Katsuki vote is a bit easy. Katsuki is someone accepted in the community through being apparently friends and hydraing with some well-known users, but to be honest I have never seen her be anything but useless, fluffy and lurky. If I remember correctly she's very young but that doesn't make it more fun to deal with.

In RedCoyote's post where he votes Gorrad

I'd really prefer a Runner lynch to anything on the table right now, but I know I don't have the energy or the capital to commit to a battle against him.

I don't see Spyrex as voting Gorrad illegitimately here.

He's fluffing his way through the first part of the game. His vote on Cyberbob is kind of lame. [etc etc]

The double negative is gut scummy, and is RC really one of the vollkan-Netopalis school of "legitimate" and "illegitimate"? I only forgive that mindset based on case by case meta history - only certain kinds of rare town players read the game as objectively classifying cases as "legitimate" and "illegitimate" (I think the mindset has gaping holes), but it's a convenient MO as a scum player.

I know this is a stray one currently but

vote: RedCoyote

yeah yeah, haven't commented on the big wagons.
should read more and get a grip
not inclined to vote chevre.
Gorrad could be scum. should read his iso. also werewolf's, since the part of the thread I really read he wasn't really there.
votes aganst nocase seem pretty bad.

[Kublai Khan]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 11

"Football features two of the worst aspects of American life, violence and committee meetings."

- George F. Wills

werewolf555

- 7 - Antihero, Chevre, farside22, RedCoyote, Dutch one, inHimshallibe, nocase

Gorrad

- 4 - iamausername, Cyberbob, DrippingGoofball, SpyreX

Chevre

- 3 - Seraphim, yabbaguy, Xalxe

nocase

- 2 - Gorrad, werewolf555

SpyreX

- 1 - Korlash

DrippingGoofball

- 1 - Kmd4390

Xalxe

- 1 - curiouskarmadog

RedCoyote

- 1 - Weatherman

Players not voting:

PokerFace

Notes/Prods

:
- @PokerFace: Sorry, no to the proxy voting idea.
- farside22 (limited access on Sat & Sun)
- Seraphim (Looking for a replacement)
- PokerFace is sick and will be posting in a limited manner for next few days
- Will Prod: {inHimshallibe} on Monday
- Current Deadline: Thursday, February 17, 2011 -- 6:00am EST

[Gorrad]

Ok, nocase wagon has gone nowhere. I'll do that WW iso like I promised when I have a second to breathe. The last two weeks have been ridiculous ><.

[Chevre]

"Football features two of the worst aspects of American life, violence and committee meetings."

- George F. Wills

The Puppy Bowl, however...

[DrippingGoofball]

Ok, nocase wagon has gone nowhere. I'll do that WW iso like I promised when I have a second to breathe. The last two weeks have been ridiculous ><.

Yeah, your vague promise to iso ONLY the current vote leader and easy lynch is soooooooo townie

*cough* *cough*

[RedCoyote]

Well, Weatherman, it's difficult, if not impossible, to put yourself in that same situation. It's a more than a little out of context to label me as feigning emotions, given that a fair number of "psyche-outs" and reaction fishing attempts have happened throughout the game.

The Kat vote thing, well, that was the best option at the time. Far better than Chevre and Antihero, I thought, the other two big wagons, and it was worth poking her a little bit to see what would come out. Others apparently disagreed. I certainly don't view her as an "easy lynch", but rather I would've hoped that my pressure by voting had have sprung her into action a bit more. It did not, but she did replace out.

Anyways, I'm having a hard time stomaching the amount of gut feelings in your overall case. You say that the things I say don't feel like things a townie would say and compare me to two different players I've never played with before. I don't recall having played with you before either, even though you propose to know a great deal about what you think I would or wouldn't say as a townie. I hope you won't take offensive to me writing off your case as little more than some false meta supposition, something that I'd argue you had little context with which to judge me on.

Moreover, you undercut your own attempt at building a new wagon from the ground up (with less than two weeks until our deadline, no less) by admitting to us that you don't have a firm handle on your reread. You shouldn't be criticized for this necessarily, but I think you would be better served having at least that knowledge of the game should you insist on coming after me. The worst part, however, the part that actually may be valid grounds with which to criticize you on, is your ignorance of why werewolf and Gorrad at least are where they are in the vote count.

So as pretty and theoretical as your conclusions appear, you effectively have dodged the biggest issues we have in front of us, Gorrad and werewolf. To be even more frank, I don't exactly know why you'd not see that as a good starting point before diving into the game. To be fair, though, I'll give you props for touching on a majority of the players.

But you have plenty of time, so I look forward to future analysis. I just hope you aren't content to rest on what little you've actually given us so far.

[RedCoyote]

Ok, nocase wagon has gone nowhere. I'll do that WW iso like I promised when I have a second to breathe. The last two weeks have been ridiculous ><.

Yeah, your vague promise to iso ONLY the current vote leader and easy lynch is soooooooo townie

*cough* *cough*

This.

[DrippingGoofball]

Seven more votes and we can throw Gorrad's carcass into the river!