Mini 1,115: Ozy and Millie Mafia (Game over!)

[Fishythefish]

EBWOP: of the Zyrc, vezok

and LMP

wagons, I currently think vezok>Zyrc>LMP.

[vezokpiraka]

To save all of you some trouble. I am a VT. Mililani mud. I hope I said that correctly.

[Empking]

Empking's asking ww to claim early on is very scummy. Not got much of a read since then.
.

At least its one up from the cries of forcing a claim. Why is it scummy though?

[Zyrconium]

Continuing responses, actually found the question this idea started with.

@Zyrc - So you think LMP is scum apparently and refuse to get on his wagon that would not be a hammer vote or even be a hammer vote of someone who has already claim because what? You are still voting Jerbs for not contributing (within the first 3 pages of the game).

I couldn't be bothered counting the number of votes that had went up and down since the last votecount(a fair few I think), it was a busy day and all. Now I'm not voting him because I'm in the process of thinking.

Then Jerbs is posting a little but not contributing (for the record Jerbs has RVS vote and response to others, saying he is busy, and asking a question to brist/saying he likes wagons). This is far better then the posts from quite a few others, including Zyrc (one RVS post).

Jerbs:
1)RVS vote
2)Pointless fluff
3)Echo of a question 3 posts earlier+says he likes wagons.

Again, this is no longer an accurate summary of Jerbs, but it's my interpretation of the posts you're referring to.

---

30 mins later, after reading 211 and LyMPs two last posts before that:

Ok, maybe my thinking isn't gonna be very deep.... those are damning. (on rethink, I only mean 210 and 211, the first one is empty, but "made up for" by the rest of them)

-----

Zyrc, do you still think Jerbs is scum? You haven't said anything on the matter since your original vote on him, and even that was unexplained in the first place.

I should have considered busy as a defense for him, which makes my points less relevant, he has continued to wander up in scummyness(reconsidered this line like 30 mins later too, and it's still accurate, but the change is barely noticeable, I'd still like to see more from him though), but not nearly as fast as some people.... I should have a list at the bottom of this post.

----

REAL POST STARTS HERE!

Since I think I'm not at least half way to a lynch, I'll stop here(#287).... Have read the later game, but not in as much depth of course....

Unfortunately, my reads aren't much different from the rest of town, specifically(factoring in vezok's latest post because otherwise it'll get tricky and I'll get questions about it):

1)LMP.
2)vezok(seriously still second, he was like 5th until that post)
large gap
3)Ghostlin
4)Empking(I really wanted this one to be higher, but no evidence to support it)
5)werewolf
6)Jerbs(I reckon this might drop in the next 30 posts I consider, I also reckon I may have been talking BS about the case to start with.... I don't really agree with what I said back there...)

I'm quite confident LMP is scum, I'm equally as confident that scum or not, vezok will end up helping the mafia(he was doing better than I expected up to that point though), this means I'm happy with either of these lynches, happier with LMP though.

vote LMP

And before accusing me of having nothing to back these up, try asking....

P.S. Pack, I didn't follow up on you cause I liked your response...

[Zyrconium]

EBWOP: Also, I AM saying I think vezok is scum, just that there's more chance of him being town than LMP, and in these chances I think he'll still help scum

[Zyrconium]

EBWOP2: Also meant to add that the read on werewolf is after concessions have been made for his cop claim, otherwise he'd have been tieing Ghost.

[Zyrconium]

It seems that every time Z posts, its when someone calls him out

I don't get the point of this sentence.

Well, if your take on the buddying was significant enough to overcome your impressions of Zyrconium, fair enough. Otherwise, it still rings strange to be willing to vote with someone you find scummy.

I'm of the impression that voting for who you think it mafia is pretty much the only consideration for a vote, scum voting someone doesn't make them not mafia. DISCLAMER: This argument made from a purely philosophical standpoint, with no specific bearing on this game.

Emp is either clever town or stupid scum, and I don't think he's stupid.

Or smart scum, I dislike posts which suggest scum can't do scummy things for intelligent reasons...

vezok

...and the thing DLG was attacking him for (waffling about LMP) isn't bad either.

His defense was pathetic and actually added to the case on him, but I don't think the original case(said waffling) was especially accurate, vezok was being slightly inarticulate was all.

Addendum to my thoughts on vezok:

It does kinda look like he's pushing at least 3 lynches just now, and has a 4th planned for tommorow.... this is more confusing than scuimmy, I think...

Please explain how LMP not responding to his lynch made us lay off him?

It's posts like this that made me not really get the wolf wagon post-claim.

@All: I've still not seen anyone comment on the fact that Empking went from thinking werewolf was scum, to utterly believing he was cop, back to thinking he was scum in like 20 posts....

[Packbat]

To save all of you some trouble. I am a VT. Mililani mud. I hope I said that correctly.

vezokpiraka, you

are

allowed to

read

your role PM before you paraphrase it, you realize this.

[Empking]

@All: I've still not seen anyone comment on the fact that Empking went from thinking werewolf was scum, to utterly believing he was cop, back to thinking he was scum in like 20 posts....

Don't act so weak. Why would people ciomment on such a natural evolution of an individual's views?

[Packbat]

Oh, wait - that's Millie's

mom's

full name - except for the fact that it's "Mudd", not "mud". I hadn't remembered that.

Which raises the other question: why are you claiming at freaking

lynch minus

three?

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE COUNT

LynchMePls (3): werewolf555, vezokpiraka, Zyrconium
Packbat (1): LynchMePls
vezokpiraka (4): DLG, Parama, Empking, LlamaFluff
werewolf555 (1): Ghostlin
Zyrconium (2): Jerbs, Antihero, Packbat
Not voting (1): Fishythefish

With

13

players alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch.

[Jerbs]

VOTE COUNT

vezokpiraka (4): DLG, Parama, Empking, LlamaFluff
With

13

players alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch.

And we have a claim. at L-3. with nobody asking.

[Ghostlin]

Guys, I think he just jumped on something I said, although I did ask for a vote count for it, and town didn't even debate before he just decided to claim. Which, seriously, I don't trust that at all. I thought there were more votes on Vezok wagon then there were, but now that I'm glad we're at L-3, I'll be:

Unvote.

VOTE: Vezok

If I wanted your claim, and I never do except in Lylo/L-1 situtations, I would have asked town if it was ok or asked you for it.

[vezokpiraka]

I was the leading wagon. You would probably get me to L-1 quick. I just saved you a lot of time.

[LimMePls]

VOTE COUNT

vezokpiraka (4): DLG, Parama, Empking, LlamaFluff
With

13

players alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch.

And we have a claim. at L-3. with nobody asking.

Vezo claims early all the time. I can show examples of this if you want, but look at Star Wars mafia, since I know he replaced into that game and claimed immediately (and no, we weren't in a massclaim, or anywhere near one).

As for your bandwagonning charge against him, if there is anything I've learned about Vezo, he wagons all the time as town. For examples of excessive bandwagonning from town-Vezo see A Clash of Kings, NY114 Mafia vs Werewolves, Star Wars (less sure about his bandwagonning in this one, but I think its there).

So this behavior by itself doesn't make him scum. That said, I have never seen scum-Vezo, so this isn't necessarily a town-tell for him, but it isn't a scum one.

I'm thinking a Zyrc wagon is actually pretty good.

[DLG]

I was the leading wagon. You would probably get me to L-1 quick. I just saved you a lot of time.

And, at the same time, completely contradicted the best reason to be voting LynchMePls.

We have to lynch LMP today if we don't want more claims

@ vezokpiraka
Please explain what it was that had happened that made you believe werewolf555 was scum.

Still waiting for an answer to this. Confine your answer to actions by werewolf55 before his claim, and please provide evidence.

Still being ignored by vezokpiraka.

Where did you EVER say that you found Zyrc suspicious? And suddenly it's "I wouldn't hesitate to vote him?" I CALL BS.

Still being ignored by vezokpiraka.

As for your bandwagonning charge against him, if there is anything I've learned about Vezo, he wagons all the time as town.

Meta, schmeta. Scum bandwagon all the time, and not being able to give even a semblance of an answer as to why he's doing it in these particular instances is a scum tell.

Vezo claims early all the time.

So? In this case, it is scummy because it was unprompted and he presumably understood that he wasn't at claim point and understood the anti-town impact of doing so.

Sheeping isn't always scummy, but ignoring questions about doing it is. Claiming early is always bad play, and particularly scummy in this case. Add these onto the other marks against vezokpiraka.

Obvious bad play with obvious scum motivation. VI meta is not sufficient defense. This is a very good lynch for Day 1.

[Fishythefish]

Empking's asking ww to claim early on is very scummy. Not got much of a read since then.
.

At least its one up from the cries of forcing a claim. Why is it scummy though?

Claims are bad for the town unless you want the lynch of the player otherwise. I think you know that, and I also think it's implausible you had a firm enough suspicion of werewolf to warrant his lynch at that stage.

@vezok: any flavour with that role?

[Empking]

Empking's asking ww to claim early on is very scummy. Not got much of a read since then.
.

At least its one up from the cries of forcing a claim. Why is it scummy though?

Claims are bad for the town unless you want the lynch of the player otherwise. I think you know that, and I also think it's implausible you had a firm enough suspicion of werewolf to warrant his lynch at that stage.

That's all true. But why is asking ww to claim early scummy?

[Fishythefish]

Because doing things that are bad for the town, and that you know are bad for the town, is scummy.

[LlamaFluff]

@LF: what do you currently think of Zyrc? I was surprised at your wagon change.

Other peoples comments are making me a little uneasy about him, as most of my outside picks for scum are treating him like I would expect a mislynch to be treated. That said, I would still be ok with a lynch/vig of him just because he still reads as scummy to me. His recent posts really havent done anything to change that opinion again.

@Zyrc - Why is vezok scum?

@wolf/LMP/vezok - Flavor please (really not sure why I didnt ask this earlier)

[Parama]

Actually, I did ask that earlier.

[Empking]

Because doing things that are bad for the town, and that you know are bad for the town, is scummy.

How is asking ww to claim bad for the town.

(Note that I'm aware how pre-mature claims asre bad for the town but I didn't do that.)

[Fishythefish]

Because you must have been aware that there was a chance that asking ww to claim would make ww claim.

[LimMePls]

I'm a crazy dragon who likes doing stuff by not doing stuff. I have to deal with the bullying problem. Without quoting verbatim this is about all that I feel comfortable saying.

[LlamaFluff]

Either LMP got an amazing fakeclaim or is VT. Seriously.