Mini 1,115: Ozy and Millie Mafia (Game over!)

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE COUNT

Empking (1): Packbat
Ghostlin (1): LynchMePls
Jerbs (3): Zyrconium, Fishythefish, Antihero
LynchMePls (4): Parama, Empking, werewolf555, vezokpiraka
vezokpiraka (1): DLG
werewolf555 (1): Ghostlin
Zyrconium (1): LlamaFluff, Jerbs

With

13

players alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch.

The winter storm some of you guys have been dealing with has hit here too and the electric company has told us to conserve power. Vi is full co-mod for now.

[Vi]

Meow.

[Packbat]

Woof! Hello, Vi!

Doctor?

We can't count on their being a doctor - and if there is one, it's pretty likely that there's a scum roleblocker, too. I've never heard people saying StrangerCoug was a bastard mod.

[Antihero]

I've never heard people saying StrangerCoug was a bastard mod.

What people do you hang around? XD

I don't think this particular game is a bastard mod game, though, since SC didn't give us a warning abou it.

Where did Z go?

[Packbat]

What people do you hang around? XD

Join date October '10 - this is only my second non-newbie. Never mind.

[Zyrconium]

Since people are complaining again,I'll post what I've been writing today. Only got to Post #149(on the rereading part):

---

Wandering through the thread again, partly to answer questions I forgot existed.

Question for the wagonners. Is this the kind of result you were looking for by building up the werewolf555 wagon so quick?

Solid emotional reaction, which was ALMOST there, he seemed a little frustrated and a little confused, and like he was trying to hide both, probably for pro-town reasons.

Am I right in thinking the argument against me is that I

1. Forced a claim out of werewolf. (Which isn't true.)
2. Voted No Lynch. (Theory differences.)

vote: WW

- Claim and then going after the person to ask for a claim. Plus I think (I've yet to check this out) but if I recall correctly SC is of worst nightmare fame. Would there be a Cop in a game. Werewolf's utter change of heart strikes me as scum who was given a falseclaim.

Surprised this post didn't get more attention, especially since he was suggesting we play "Follow the Cop" up until this post...

Yes, if we lynch him today it won't matter, but I want his reasoning.

In fact:

UNVOTE: LynchMePls

I'll replace the vote if I'm not satisfied with his responses, but I don't want a hammer before he responds.

This one irks me too, I suspect because it had already been explained why it was perfectly logical for him to claim, and the fact that said explanation caused an escalation in Pack's alarm, rather than decreased it.

Let's add "I'll replace the vote

if I'm not satisfied with the responses

"(to why he claimed, not to any case on him) to the list of reasons this looks like an akward defense of LyMP...

[Zyrconium]

Better question:

LynchMePls, I will give you fourteen hours from the time of this post to respond to the outstanding questions directed toward you. If after that time I have not received a response I deem satisfactory, I will vote for your lynch.

What happened to this Pack?

[Ghostlin]

Doctor?

What everyone else has said repeatedly. We can't count on there being one, and the Doctor's existence won't stop you from being role blocked.

[Packbat]

Better question:

LynchMePls, I will give you fourteen hours from the time of this post to respond to the outstanding questions directed toward you. If after that time I have not received a response I deem satisfactory, I will vote for your lynch.

What happened to this Pack?

Sheer bluff. Stupid bluff, too - LMP was asking to be lynched, so threatening to lynch wasn't effective. I still don't think his claiming was wise - my impression that the game was still relatively early - but the fashion of his claim struck me as pro-town, which suggested to me he

was

town. I just wanted him to keep talking.

For the record: that impression is being strained by the way he's trying to push the Ghostlin lynch and his blatantly inconsistent wagon-suspicion and overall-suspicion lists. He just isn't providing much to work with.

[DLG]

@ vezokpiraka
Please explain what it was that had happened that made you believe werewolf555 was scum.

I'm unmoved by the Jerbs wagon. I recognize that his comment re: bristep/Fishythefish was bordering on buddying, but that same sentiment had already been expressed earlier by Parama. Of the three votes, Antihero's looks the best. Zyrconium's seems reasonable for the early stage. Fishythefish's vote post seems self-contradicting.

I like LF's Zryconium vote. I think it's the best thing going around right now.

Wait what Jerbs thinks I'm town? Based on... pretty much nothing. Previous occupant answered some RQs, and left because he'd overextended himself. Blatant buddying alert!

If Llamafluff's vote on Zyrconium was so good, why would you jump right in behind Zyrconium to vote Jerbs?

Outside of Zyrconium's last 2 posts, Llamafluff's case looked decent.

@ Llamafluff
Do you think Zyrconium's latest efforts redeemed him any?

@ Ghostlin
I agree in principal that werewolf555's claim and subsequent play is suspicious. But, do you truly feel that the risk to benefit ratio in lynching him is the right play? If he was just so excited to have a role that he felt would protect him from the noose, his claim doesn't look as bad. I have no experience playing with him. But, the general vibe that I got from his RVS wagon is that he's easily rattled and his claim grows out of that naturally. Could it be a mod-provided fake-claim? Sure. But, if it's not, forcing the scum to deal with him seems like a good idea.

[Fishythefish]

@DLG: I thought Zyrc was scummy, but that Jerbs's buddying was pretty awful. I don't see why Zyrc voting Jerbs should put me off much.

@werewolf: what made you think LMP was scummy? You said he wasn't defending himself - he said he thought he should be lynched to prevent more claims. What do you think of that?

[LlamaFluff]

@ Llamafluff
Do you think Zyrconium's latest efforts redeemed him any?

Not in the least. Its actually other peoples actions that are making me doubt myself a little.

@Vezok - You say we "have" to lynch LMP, is he scum? Why? You say wearwolf "has" to be lynched tomorrow. Why? What if he has a guilty? What if he does something that makes him look town? You say DGL is scum. Why?

[Ghostlin]

@ Ghostlin
I agree in principal that werewolf555's claim and subsequent play is suspicious. But, do you truly feel that the risk to benefit ratio in lynching him is the right play? If he was just so excited to have a role that he felt would protect him from the noose, his claim doesn't look as bad. I have no experience playing with him. But, the general vibe that I got from his RVS wagon is that he's easily rattled and his claim grows out of that naturally. Could it be a mod-provided fake-claim? Sure. But, if it's not, forcing the scum to deal with him seems like a good idea.

DLG: This is a situation akin to the one we had with Mute, only worse. At least Mute's death in Newbie 1042 provided one thing: a relative safeclaim for a townie player. I find not too much of a stretch that if Mafia have the ability, they'll roleblock him, making him effectively useless to town and choose someone else to kill, hoping to fish out a doctor. If that happens, they'll keep him around as long as they can, maybe until Lylo to provide a losing WIFOMsque situation for us, with a bunch of no claims.

If the scum don't have a roleblocker, they'll probably kill him Night 1, so his investigation power will be useless. In this case, the only favor we're doing scum is clearing up the night kill for scum to go kill someone else.

Thats if we believe his claim. If we don't, we're keeping scum alive long enough to be really dangerous. If we don't go with him today, I really, really like an Empking lynch to the exclusion of anything else. I think LMP again is frustrated townie with some really, really bad logic (really, with a town of vezo, Emp and werewolf, we're going to target you first?). Vezo, I'd vote for, but I'm really on the fence about due to the fact that I'm in No Exit with him, he just played the exact same way and turned up town; so I think this is his generic VI play, and even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Personally, I'd get the Werewolf thing over with so it doesn't create a distraction on later days. He's either one of three things: a Cop who just invalided his role to essentially a Nightkillable or blocked VT, a VT lying to save his skin, or scum lying to save his skin. The first two are still dangerous to town and shouldn't be tolerated.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: "Thats if we believe his claim." should be "That's if his claim is true."

[Antihero]

Z's last post is pretty lame, and doesn't really say who he thinks is scum.

I don't want a WoT, but top scumspects would be great. BTW, your vote is still on jerbs.

[vezokpiraka]

We have to lynch LMP today if we don't want more claims and always having to fight the thought about lynching LMP the next day.

If werewolf has a result we lynch him. Then we can see if the result is correct or not.

[LimMePls]

Better question:

LynchMePls, I will give you fourteen hours from the time of this post to respond to the outstanding questions directed toward you. If after that time I have not received a response I deem satisfactory, I will vote for your lynch.

What happened to this Pack?

Sheer bluff. Stupid bluff, too - LMP was asking to be lynched, so threatening to lynch wasn't effective. I still don't think his claiming was wise - my impression that the game was still relatively early - but the fashion of his claim struck me as pro-town, which suggested to me he

was

town. I just wanted him to keep talking.

For the record: that impression is being strained by the way he's trying to push the Ghostlin lynch and his blatantly inconsistent wagon-suspicion and overall-suspicion lists. He just isn't providing much to work with.

So your thinking was that you would bluff me into participating more by threatening to revote me, even though my position was that I should be lynched.

Ya, Packbat is scum.

[LimMePls]

Oh ya,

Unvote
Vote: Packbat

[Ghostlin]

We have to lynch LMP today if we don't want more claims and always having to fight the thought about lynching LMP the next day.

If werewolf has a result we lynch him. Then we can see if the result is correct or not.

I hate this logic so much I could literally kick you in real life.

What if werewolf is roleblocked? Also; if you were scum, you could choose a player and give a town result, hopefully someone you knew was town. (Which you know who everyone is if you're scum.)

Not every wagon leads to a follow up Day 2 or Day 3 so the whole 'we'll always suspect LMP' is really some of the worse logic I've ever heard.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: I find the irony of me defending a player who thinks I'm scum from himself to he can play this game because I think he's town absolutely delicious.

[Antihero]

I've seen Z's name at the bottom of the page twice now. I was waiting for something good, and ended up being disappointed.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Z

[Jerbs]

catching up

weather sucks

[Jerbs]

We have to lynch LMP today if we don't want more claims and always having to fight the thought about lynching LMP the next day.

If werewolf has a result we lynch him. Then we can see if the result is correct or not.

^^Fail logic. LMP comes off a town to me, + the fact that werewolf will prob get rb, makes this useless. Also if werewolf is scum, he could spin us into a WIFOM trap

I think you are voting me just so you protect your scumbudies who are being waggoned. The bet was just a reaction test. I didn't make a bet with anyone here ever. You failed. The way you responded was that of a scum who knew he can't win the bet so said it's just scummy of me to say that and proceed to vote me.

^^This doesn't make much sense either. DLG explained 2 good reasons to not accept the bet.


It seems that every time Z posts, its when someone calls him out


Although he has been scummy, LMP's claim, plus the way he played from then on feel like frustrated town.

@Fishy

How come when I say that I think you are town, you call buddying, but when someone else says close to the same, you ignore it?

If I missed anything, please tell me, I'm off to frolic in some ffffffffffffffffffffflllllllllooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrsssssssss

[StrangerCoug]

I'm going to go ahead and call myself out of V/LA since the storm's passed and I haven't had any power problems today. Thanks for watching over, Vi.

[DLG]

DLG: This is a situation akin to the one we had with Mute, only worse.

I agree it is similar. I disagree that it is worse. I will say that your approach to the situation mirrors your approach there. For the record, Ghostlin was town in that game, for anyone who puts stock in meta analysis.

I'm not a fan of meta analysis.

Vezo, I'd vote for, but I'm really on the fence about due to the fact that I'm in No Exit with him, he just played the exact same way and turned up town; so I think this is his generic VI play, and even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

VI does not equal town. Regarding meta, see above, plus replicated behavior can just be a function of not being able to help oneself regardless of alignment. What do you think he's right about, even if just accidentally?

@DLG: I thought Zyrc was scummy, but that Jerbs's buddying was pretty awful. I don't see why Zyrc voting Jerbs should put me off much.

Well, if your take on the buddying was significant enough to overcome your impressions of Zyrconium, fair enough. Otherwise, it still rings strange to be willing to vote with someone you find scummy.

Not in the least.

Since your case consisted of a deal more than lack of scum hunting, I agree.

@ vezokpiraka
Please explain what it was that had happened that made you believe werewolf555 was scum.

Still waiting for an answer to this. Confine your answer to actions by werewolf55 before his claim, and please provide evidence.