Mafia 126 - Lovers Mafia! [Game Over]

[SensFan]

Vote Count

Espeonage - 4 (silavor, werewolf555, Kise, GreyICE)
EmpTyger - 4 (Umbrage, Espeonage, Reck, vezok)
GreyICE - 3 (Snake, EmpTyger, q21)
Umbrage - 2 (Llamarble, implosion)
Mariyta - 1 (antihero)
antihero - 1 (Purple Orange)
Llamarble - 1 (Mariyta)
Haylen - 1 (Haylen)

Not Voting - 7 (Tragedy, Dramonic, Nero Cain, Kcdaspot, Baby Spice, Thingyman, DarlaBlueEyes)

---

Since a couple people have asked me, I will be prodding anyone who does not post within 48 hours of the start of the game. After that, I prod on request, though please be reasonable about requesting prods, and avoid using it as a way to pester people who are posting.

[EmpTyger]

Aside from whatever evidence Kise has, just realized that PO definitely knew this was a nightless game. Still not liking GreyICE, but he can wait in favor of the better bandwagon.

Unvote: GreyICE, vote: Espeonage

GreyIce:

I originally declined, as I didn't really want to play in a large game. But nightless + daytalk actually sounds like a REALLY nice break and change.

And methinks Reck's right. Less info mafia has about who will die if they shoot someone, the better. Would you rather have them aim for who they think the most dangerous singular player is, and maybe shoot the crappier team, or for who they think the most dangerous team-as-a-whole is?

Tell me again about my "awful reading comprehension".

[Purple Orange]

Hey there, Emp. Yup. I knew there was daytalk. And I'd forgotten. Which is one reason I correctly myself so quickly - it was a "doh, that's right" remembering, not something that hit me completely out of the blue.

You can believe me or not, and people probably won't. So my apologies in advance to Espy for not reviewing the game rules before I posted, and getting him killed because of it. I can say as scum I'd have looked more carefully at what I said in the signup thread, but it's all WIFOM at this point.

And as I was writing a longer post anyway, I might as well post that:
=======================

A guilty silavor could have sit back and let the confusion develop. He may or may not have stuck his neck out to further any misunderstanding. But he didn’t do either of those things. He immediately clarified it to a protown course. Which I don’t see an antitown player doing. (In fact, no one has disputed that it was a protown move; the only argument seems to be how conclusively protown it is.)

Actually, someone did:

But yeah that's weird logic for calling Silvavor town; pretty much anyone could have corrected that.

Maybe he was scum hoping to nip a potential source of towncred in the bud.

I was accepting your assumption it was a protown move for the sake of the argument - even IF it was a clarifying protown move, I cannot see how it clears silavor as town. I'm not sure this is worth arguing about, and I'm happy to drop it (as you seem to have when it came to my response), but I

am

completely befuddled by your reasoning here. What you seem to be saying is that anti-town players would never make a strategic helpful/protown move...which is absurd. Have you noticed why GreyICE is accusing my darling lover Espy of being scum, for instance?

Could you be a little more nonconfrontational and skim the thread a bit harder? You've got a list of posts contributing nothing but creating a "solid" history of "helpful" posting...

I'd disagree with GreyICE about his particular application of the tell in the case of Espy. But not the fact that it

can

work as a tell.

And though we're working with a tiny sample size, I actually think it applies quite well to silavor's current ISO.

On that note,

Unvote, Vote: silavor

, as Anti-Grey are a team, and I'm still trying to decide whether to roll my eyes at Grey or call him scum.

[Purple Orange]

Hey there, Emp. Yup. I knew there was daytalk.

Make that "no nightkill."

[Umbrage]

EmpTyger's last post makes me like my vote on him.

a) I don't like the phrasing of "the better bandwagon". It really screams of scum trying to switch to the wagon with the most potential.

b) From my point of view (and I think someone else already said it) scum are the most likely to realize it's a nightless game.

c) So wait, you're voting him because he forgot it was a nightless game?

ScumTyger is feeding you crap to excuse his switch to the most popular wagon.

[SnakePlissken]

Sorry folks been catching up on the last few pages. I can confirm my loveness with Vezo. Grey you never finished your sentence on me? You've seen me from?? (Being as I only play this game in 2 places it should narrow it down for you)

I agree with Umbrage, I don't like the term 'the better bandwagon' as that comes across as trying hard to make sure you get a lynch no matter who it is. That just reads of either one of the scum teams trying very hard to take someone out. And when I say scum teams yes Im aware that on of them is a werewolf team, it just makes things easier in my mind when Im working on who they might be, as the difference is null they are both anti lover.

[GreyICE]

LOL, snake, that was a bit of a joke. If you're paired with Piraka, and he's nigh impossible to read, you have to be the one we read, and you last posted on page 1. When I get off this bleeding phone and to a real machine, I have some thoughts, including on our lurkers (some people haven't posted, I believe. Come on people, this isn't a spectator sport).

(much love if you get the reference)

Unvote

PO is a town read, and again explains some of espy's behavior, so my vote is now being stupid. Will review tonight and find a good spot for it.

[Haylen]

Sivalor isnt scum, Purple Orange. I would request you explain why you expect more posts from him since the game has only been open for about 24 hours.

[dramonic]

guess who checked the wrong subforum?
it's meee!

Will read up... and post... before, erm, friday I spose.

[Kcdaspot]

hey haylen... it's page 7 and you seem a little too suicidal.

[Umbrage]

@ Haylen: Why do you think Sivalor is town?

[silavor]

PO, I'm not quite sure how the point you're trying to make about me applies to me more than anyone else. A lot of what's been going on for the first five pages or so seems like rather useless chatter to me, and I don't have a whole lot to say regarding the recent pages, either. It doesn't mean I'm scum, and it certainly doesn't mean I've got a history of making "helpful" posts, seeing how I haven't

made

any posts in the first place.

[Baby Spice]

a) I don't like the phrasing of "the better bandwagon". It really screams of scum trying to switch to the wagon with the most potential.

b) From my point of view (and I think someone else already said it) scum are the most likely to realize it's a nightless game.

c) So wait, you're voting him because he forgot it was a nightless game?

ScumTyger is feeding you crap to excuse his switch to the most popular wagon.

a) Hate that phrase myself, but I see wagon happy townies do it all the time. I don't think it's really a scumdicator this early on d1

b) Mentioned something like four or five times in the signup thread so I really doubt your logic here.

Also I can't see someone deliberately passing bad advice to their mason partner to justify their own actions. A non-mason partner yeah but not a mason one.

Also, confirm Kcd as the lucky(?) winner

[Purple Orange]

Sivalor isnt scum, Purple Orange. I would request you explain why you expect more posts from him since the game has only been open for about 24 hours.

It's not that I expect more posts, it's that I expected more in the posts already posted. Unlike you and some other folks who just had time to say "hi" in the thread, silavor was following the discussion for a while -- and unlike them, he didn't cast an actual vote or give an opinion on anyone. (Thingy didn't do so great either). Maybe I missed someone in my ISOs, but that's what I saw.

Not saying it's the grandest case made ever. I often scumhunt with questions, too, at the beginning of threads, so there's that to take into account with his last post, which actually maybe confronts someone. Plus, yeah...the fact it's hard to derive much from a track record of 5 whole posts. But I prefer to have my vote on someone, I don't want it on Grey/Anti (where it was sitting before) unless or unless or until I feel I can articulate at least a halfbaked case on the guys; and this is what I've got right now, until I do another reread of the thread and maybe find someone better. silavor is not-as-town as the other pairs I've looked at.

PO, I'm not quite sure how the point you're trying to make about me applies to me more than anyone else. A lot of what's been going on for the first five pages or so seems like rather useless chatter to me, and I don't have a whole lot to say regarding the recent pages, either. It doesn't mean I'm scum, and it certainly doesn't mean I've got a history of making "helpful" posts, seeing how I haven't

made

any posts in the first place.

Thing is, I

don't

consider the first five pages useless chatter. Did you see how quickly serious votes started being cast? The case on Grey/Anti is basically made from pages 1 and 2. Reck and I have suspicion/towncred/whatever on us left and right because of our reactions to Grey. Thingy made some posts I need to take a second look at. (And have you seen the whole argument I've been having with Emp about your ISO 2, which was apparently so amazingly helpful and clarifying for the town that he cleared you as town?) There was a LOT that went on, and a LOT that got said.

And there's certainly a lot that's gone on since then. What do you think of the latest couple pages?

[Antihero]

(In fact, no one has disputed that it was a protown move; the only argument seems to be how conclusively protown it is.)

Well, I do. I think it's a big, fat nulltell. Seriously, it's not like the error was going to go uncorrected anyway (reck might have cleared it up himself anyway). And it's not even like it was some move to swoop in and save the day (there was 0% chance that the lover claim wasn't going to happen). You're overblowing the importance of this.

Out of curiosity, what do you think about how GreyIce “dished out a townread” on Reckoner and PO?

Better justified than yours. That actually has to do with something in the ROLE PMs, not some obvious issue that was going to be resolved if anybody had 1/10 of a brain in their heads.

guess who checked the wrong subforum?
it's meee!

Will read up... and post... before, erm, friday I spose.

Hm, where have I seen this before...?

I'm holding you to this.

q21 comes in and votes based on the first post. Lame

UNVOTE:
VOTE: EmpTyger

[Llamarble]

Unvote; Vote EmpTyger

Baaaa
Also some of the logic against him is good.

[Mariyta]

Unvote; Vote EmpTyger

Baaaa
Also some of the logic against him is good.

Sheep much?

[Llamarble]

Well, yes, hence "Baaaa."
I'll read more carefully later.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

That's not the first time he's baaa'd like a sheep if you know what I mean

Reading back over the last two pages, though I do feel a pull to do what my sexy lover does, I'll at least look myself and make sure he's not being an idiot first. You know how men can be...

[xRECKONERx]

FOS

- feigning ignorance when I KNOW you read the role PMs during signups. I like how you disappeared for 3 hours to let everyone soak it in and give you cheap town points. I'm not lynching you on the first day, but I've got you pegged.

For the record, the entirety of my involvement in signing up for this game was Sens IMing me one day and going "Reck, sign up for my lovers game" and I was just like "link?" and said "/in".

That's why I'm the first person to post in the signup thread.

Furthermore, I disappeared for three hours because I'm sick as a fucking dog and I was alternating between puking my brains out, coughing up blood, and sweating my balls off. Excuse me for not sitting here the entire three hours when I feel like death. OH NO APPEAL TO EMOTION. Suck my balls.

1) I'm not lynching Nero today either.
2) So your plan from the start was to goad players into asking you why you had a problem with lover-claiming... mhmm…

Please, continue with this line of thought instead of just trailing off… assuming I had some master plan involved here, what was my gain out of having some long, drawn out plan to get people to ask me about lover-claiming?

Kise is probably town, as his hunting seems genuine, albeit overreaching.

@dramonic: LOVER CLAIM PLEASE SO I KNOW WHO TO KILL THANKS

[Umbrage]

Weird. I'm really sick right now too.

[EmpTyger]

Antihero:

And it's not even like it was some move to swoop in and save the day (there was 0% chance that the lover claim wasn't going to happen).

Oh? If there was a 0% chance of it not happening...

About the whole claim thing: I think it's pretty pointless. As the game progresses, it should become obvious who's paired with whom; a mass claim really doesn't do anything for anybody right now. Also, how is silavor's vote anymore related to the issues at hand than mine?

...Then why were you still arguing against it at that point?


Umbrage:

EmpTyger's last post makes me like my vote on him.

a) I don't like the phrasing of "the better bandwagon". It really screams of scum trying to switch to the wagon with the most potential.

b) From my point of view (and I think someone else already said it) scum are the most likely to realize it's a nightless game.

c) So wait, you're voting him because he forgot it was a nightless game?

ScumTyger is feeding you crap to excuse his switch to the most popular wagon.

a) How should a protown phrase their bandwagon switch? If I have 2 suspects, and there are more than 2 antitowns left, and one of them has twice as many votes as the other... then yeah I'm going to switch, and yeah I'm going to say why. (Or is your point that a townsperson wouldn't switch? Because that makes even less sense.)

b) Right. Which is why mafia pretend they have town PMs. So if they have an opportunity to seem ignorant of that fact, they'd take it. Which is why I was saying that nothing can be concluded about Reckoner's supposed ignorance: yes he could have been genuinely mistaken, but he could also have been feigning ignorance. (GreyIce was arguing that it had to be the latter.) And I was saying the same about PO, at least initially...

c) No, I think he was lying about forgetting. PO said that he only signed up because this was a nightless daytalking game. I don't believe he could have forgotten it 2 days later. And, I mean, even GreyIce said his I-forgot-the-game-was-nightless was "contrived".


Llama:

Also some of the logic against him is good.

Which of the logic is? And, for that matter, which of the logic isn't?


Kise:
Think you need to explain that comment about Reckoner further.


PO:
I have never seen a mafia member act so quickly to defuse and clarify. (And that's even not taking into account the daytalking.) Have you?
(And I read GreyIce's calling Espeonage "helpful" as sarcasm. Hence the quotes.)

[Haylen]

Unvote

He's town because we slept together.

I was going to ask why Emptyger hadn't answered Umbrage's question, then I realised I was reading the thread backwards.

Did Reckoner just claim a kill?

[SensFan]

In response to a question I was asked by PM, Scum will win if their faction contains 50% of living people, unless the other Scum faction also contains 50% of the living people.

[GreyICE]

@Mod: I will now officially laugh at you if this game ends in a draw, you realize.

@EMP: Seriously man, what part of that post made sense?

As for the massclaim, I thought it would happen, Antihero wasn't too sure. We've been poking each other about it a bit