Mini 1113 - Brotherhood of the Wolf Mafia

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah, I didn't realize there were so many sub par players in this game. I saw a couple names I liked and needed a game, but I'm seriously kinda regretting it with the large amount of logic fail occurring.

[LimMePls]

Incoming info dump. Deal with it. If you can't, skip to the TL;DR at the bottom.

UNVOTE: UK 3 votes in RVS is not nice.

4 votes (as it would have been had I not removed mine) on page 1 is ridiculous, IMO. If you want to vote me for that, more power to ya.

Um, it's page 1 and still RVS? Four votes is a lot at that stage when there's nothing to merit it.

Why? RVS wagons are useful for later game analysis. Is there "nothing to merit" from the information gained in RVS wagons? Why/why not? If not, why do you participate in RVS at all?

@Mary: You never answered this. Please do so.

@lynch, sorry I don't have time for an in-depth post, but I simply don't think lynching lurkers on page 2 is a good idea. However, now that we are on page 8 I think lynching one could be possible. I like my slot vote.

Scum.

This post from AGM is win.

Hey guys. Really sorry about not posting. Angry playstyles like Reck's make me clam up and I was finding it easier to watch what happened in relation to me lurking than to start participating.
That ends now.

I have reread and am going to be doing some ISOs over the next day or so to make up for my lack of posting.

**SNIP**

I find LMP's entrance weird, what with putting a vote on me and then taking it off, but I will reserve judgment on that for later.

I am not really sure what I just read from UT.

Don't worry AGM, I got you covered. Time to bust out my BS-O-Matic9000(TM). The above quote, run throught he BS-O-Matic9000(TM) produces the following result:

Hey guys. It sucks that you've noticed I'm lurking. Since I know people think lurking is scummy, I'm going to blame my lurking on someone else. So please disregard that I was lurking at all, cause it's all Reck's fault, and anyways I was using it to... scumhunt! Yeah, that's it, I was using it to scumhunt. Am I good or what?
So now I'm not gonna lurk anymore.

And even though I said that I've been watching what happened in relation to me lurking, I'm going to now say that I'm going to do a reread, so you will forget that I lurked and that's why I need to reread in the first place.

**SNIP**

LMP looks like he might be an easy target, since Reck was taking a lot of heat, but he also might make the slot better. So I'm going to sit on this fence here and see how things turn out. None of you will actually expect when I say that I will reserve judgement for later that I will actually give that judgment later, because you will forget about it, so this is the perfect thing for a lurker-scum to do.

The BS-O-Matic9000 is a registered trademark of LMP Inc. Patent Pending. All rights reserved.

Actually, UT, I have no obligation to convince you that you're scum. So, really, since no one else seems to have any issues with my argument, I see no need to elucidate it for you. It's fairly plain to everyone else. What's so hard about it for you?

I will state that you are completely incorrect about why the votes tell works.

I'll also state that your little effort post is pretty silly when it shows at least one third of the players to be players you have absolutely no opinion on, but INSIST on telling us just so you can look just a wee bit more active.

Clever, really.

Now, before you call me out on one third as opposed to one sixth, it's rather magical that your "leaning towns" "haven't said much". It's also magical that you just pick out a couple things without really elucidating. WHICH points? WHY? There's no real content, just pretty words.

@CD: Ok, you said that. But you didn't tell me why getting pissed off at people helps him as scum. Which is what I meant to ask, and am *pretty* sure I did ask. But, I could be wrong. So, I'm asking that now. How does it help Reckamonic scum to get pissed off at everyone?

I'll also note that crap logic isn't *necessarily* a reason to lynch. That's lynching a player for playing badly. However, faking pro townness is a pretty good reason to lynch, which is very much the vibe I get from his last post.

QFT

His play is fine. I thought his predecessor was scummy so until someone gets a higher score than that slot on my scum-meter I'll keep my vote where it's at.

Scummy!

If I were buddies with cooldog I would just NK myself so don't worry about that.

LOL.

After a quick ISO of you, CD, your case on Reckamonic/LMP is nothing but flavor (which you don't seem to have a full knowledge of) and meta. Care to prove me wrong?

So yes, at heart, your case is meta only, given that flavor speculation is pointless D1

Unvote. Vote: CooLDoG

And AGM is steadily moving up my scumlist.

Glad I'm right about AKR-scum.

CD: I checked your iso. Found this.

Recks slot: Scummy flavor (weak). Aggravated play which is not in his meta. bad meta references. Not contributing...

There, CD. There is your case. And of those things, the two you push the most are meta and the claim (flavor). I've talked about the meta. And with the claim, you're getting upset with a miller claim that seems like scum. A MILLER claim that seems like scum. And a problem with him not playing according to a town meta? Is he playing according to a scum meta? Do you even care enough to have freaking checked? Because you cannot call someone scum based on a town meta of them and not touch a scum one. And NO ONE has mentioned a scum meta from what I've read.

And then you over-react to my pressure on you. If I had wanted to vote you'd I've have fucking voted you, but you go on and try to imply that I, at any point, declared you scummier than who I was voting, in an attempt to make me look like I couldn't make up my mind on who to vote. At the time, I just wanted to verbally pressure you. Now, though, you seem like the scum on the Reck wagon.

Unvote

and VOTE: CooLDoG, since you wanted it so damned badly.

QFT.

I've changed my mind about UK. Unvote UncertainKitten. That was a stupid OMGUS-y vote. That'll teach me to read the entire game before responding to a case. In context of the rest of her posts, may be a terribad case, but it's a terribad case by a town player. Let us never speak of this again.

**SNIP**

Now that I'm caught up on reading and whatnot, maybe I can stop being such a failure lurker. Moving on...

I could, of course, be horribly wrong about all this.

I don't even need the BS-O-Matic(TM) for this one. I especially love how after lurking hard and then catching up by posting his view on every player in the game, he disowns his own opinions with "of couse I could be wrong about this". That's the cherry on top of a UT-scum sundae.

@UT: That was a surprisingly (mostly) good post. Keep it up.

Did you read the same thing I did? Which one of us dropped acid before reading that post?

Ok, the occasional pic in the thread is funny / cute / whatever. I don't have issue with them.

Let's not make the thread recreate the GD "ITT we only post pictures" thread, ok?

Thank you.

@UT: That was a surprisingly (mostly) good post. Keep it up.

Seconded. And I liked the comments on Zang. I'll be reading him in ISO when I get a chance later.

Apparently I was the one dropping acid. Did you guys SEE what I quoted above?

So, anyway, you all lost me a couple pages back and I'm not sure how. At some point I'm going to have to reread the game, hopefully after I cook dinner tonight (since I have worky type stuff to do in the meantime).

Ooh, Ooh, I know how *waves hand* pick me pick me! *gets picked* YES! You got into a town v town with AGM and got distracted.

@mary, so you admit to defending someone. If I correctly recall you should be scum hunting not defending other players. Also what is your motivation to defend him?

This is so hilarious.

It's a fairly long back and forth so it's hard to quote, but it's basically consists of this:
CooLDoG: Hai guyz, im being scummy, lol
AGM: Vote CooLDoG
AKR: AGM is scum.
AGM: Why?
AKR: You didn't justify why CooLDoG was scummy.
AGM: Neither did you. So basically you're calling yourself scum.
AKR: *FLAIL*
AGM: YOU'RE FUCKING SCUM.
AKR: (I can't talk myself out of this one, but if I lurk long enough maybe AGM will go away)

QFT. This exchange is also quoted above. It's that important.

TL;DR: AKR is scummy. CD is scummy. UT is scummy. SC may be scum (based on AGM/SC arguments and I think AGM got the better end of it). AGM vs UK around pages 11-13 is town v town.

TOWN
AlmasterGM
UncertainKitten
Mina
Mariyta
GhostWriter
Zang
Katsuki
havingfitz
StrangerCoug
CoolDoG
Untrod Tripod
AKnottedRope
SCUM

Confirm Vote: AKR

I'm open to UT, CD and SC wagons as well.

[Katsuki]

I don't think CD is scum he is permanently VI. His play this game is different from my other 2 games with him (both times scum), though still VT.

Why is AGM town again?

[AlmasterGM]

If we lynch the bottom half of LMP's scum/town list, town win is guaranteed.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count 1.15 - As of Post 504

Zang (2) - Mina, StrangerCoug
Untrod Tripod (0) -
Mariyta (1) - Zang
AlmasterGM (2) - AKnottedRope, Katsuki
Katsuki (0) -
LynchMePls (1) - CooLDoG
StrangerCoug (3) - UncertainKitten, AlmasterGM, Untrod Tripod
AKnottedRope (1) - LynchMePls
CooLDoG (1) - GhostWriter
UncertainKitten (1) - havingfitz
Mina (0) -
havingfitz (0) -
GhostWriter (0) -

Not Voting (1) - Mariyta

The Current deadline in Februrary 7th at 9:00am EST. The Countdown can be found

HERE

With 13 alive - 7 are required to lynch and 5 are required to lynch at deadline.

Activity Check - GhostWriter has been prodded and have until Feb 2, 10PM EST to post or he will be replaced. All others are good.

Katsuki's V/LA til the 7th is noted.
CooLDoG's V/LA is noted.

[LimMePls]

I don't think CD is scum he is permanently VI. His play this game is different from my other 2 games with him (both times scum), though still VT.

Why is AGM town again?

ISO him. It's town.

[Katsuki]

I disagree.

Give me some things to work with for my re-read of AGM iso.

[AlmasterGM]

WHY DON'T YOU JUST DO YOUR OWN FUCKIN WORK INSTEAD OF REQUIRING US TO SPOON FEED YOU EVERYTHING.

[GhostWriter]

Facing an unexpected crisis today, so I'm here, but I'm not here. Need to do a catch up, because something happened to the wagons since the last time I checked in. Not sure what's going on.

[LimMePls]

I disagree.

Give me some things to work with for my re-read of AGM iso.

Why don't you start with the url I posted in my wall up there. Then, look at the other AGM posts I QFT'd. Then read his ISO. It's there. I have faith in you.

[Mariyta]

Incoming info dump. Deal with it. If you can't, skip to the TL;DR at the bottom.

UNVOTE: UK 3 votes in RVS is not nice.

4 votes (as it would have been had I not removed mine) on page 1 is ridiculous, IMO. If you want to vote me for that, more power to ya.

Um, it's page 1 and still RVS? Four votes is a lot at that stage when there's nothing to merit it.

Why? RVS wagons are useful for later game analysis. Is there "nothing to merit" from the information gained in RVS wagons? Why/why not? If not, why do you participate in RVS at all?

@Mary: You never answered this. Please do so.

It's not that there is nothing to merit from RVS. But in my experience, RVS wagons tend to be a safe way for scum to get someone lynched early. One person votes someone, a second person does the same, then a scum or two pile on, followed by townies who are gung-ho for a lynch and inattentive. It may be a fatalistic view, but I typically don't trust [most of] my fellow players to not just blindly pile on to a wagon, leading to a quick lynch.

[LimMePls]

How many quick lynch RVS wagons have you seen? Links please.

[LimMePls]

That aren't the one Reck kept going on and on about before.

[Mariyta]

Well, I started to re-read, then got bored, so I did some ISOs instead.

AKR:

Upon a re-read, he seems ok. His initial play was shite, but then he comes back with a decent case on CD (maybe I'm just biased there). I do not, however, like his reply to Mina in ISO#19 re: how he feels about fitz. Most people would go back and read the person they're being questioned about. I do, anyway. Waiting for his catch-up post.

UT:

Don't like the "I don't want to discuss theory" deflection from ISO#4 or the "angry playstyles make me clam up" excuse in ISO#5;
ISO#6 looks good on the outside, but once you delve deeper (which I never did when I first read it), you find some nasty little surprises. First, there's the "Reck's claim is very odd" comment. Well, duh. It's a miller claim. Then there's this:

For point 2, what the fuck? If I were scum, why would my scum buddies voice suspicion of me but not vote? That would look super bad if either of us got lynched.

Distancing is the obvious answer. Scum do it all the time. Like, ALL the time. WIFOM is a scum's best friend in many cases.

The logical explanation for why a player would have suspicion on them but few votes is because the player isn't doing anything all that scummy.

If the player was doing nothing scummy, no one would accuse them of being scummy. It may just be that others are even scummier, so they got lucky w/ votes.
Then you get the sacrificial "Lynch me if you must" comment in ISO#7.
Hey, look. Next we get a change of heart and a "My vote was bad" comment. Explanation for Zang vote was meh. The last part was decent, but the first two sentences contradict each other. Then he moves his vote to SC (surprise surprise) for whom his case is just plain shite.

HF

: Despite the fact that I didn't agree with his vote on LMP, his arguments were logical and he appears to have put thought into them (unlike some *cough*). I don't, however, understand his vote on UK.

SC:

I still don't see the case on SC. Question for him, though: You gave a Pick 3 early in the game. I assume you know throw Zang in there. Who are the other 2 after AGM's claim?

Kat:

Started out ok, then became combative, short-winded, and generally lazy. Asking for people to basically tell her what to think. Not the Kats I know.

So VOTE: UntrodTripod

And for the record, my name is MarIYta. Pronounced Mah-REE-tah. If you must shorten it, please use Mari (Mah-Ree), not Mary. Mary is my aunt, not me.

P-edit: Most of the games I've played are in the archives and I don't know if any were RVS quick lynches. The recent game that I remember seeing an RVS wagon lead to something really bad was Random Mafia 2, though the RVS 'wagon' was on the mod, then the wagon switched to one of the voters, who was subsequently lynched on page 6. My fear stems from ignorant quick lynches, not necessarily RVS quick lynches.

[MagnaofIllusion]

StrangerCoug has PMed me to indicate that severe Winter Storms have hit his local area (at this point where haven't they?) and he will have little access due to Power restrictions.

His V/LA is noted.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC, are you willing to lynch a claimed neighbor d-1? I prefer to lynch the non-contributing miller... that's just me.

Neighbor ≠ town per se, so yes. A mason is supposed to be town, though.

[Mariyta]

I stand by my declaration that everyone needs to watch the movie. The first scene is just awesomely cheesetastic, and you gotta love the Indian dude kicking the ever-loving shite out of the Gypsy sisters.

[UncertainKitten]

I think you missed the compelling evidence AGM provided that caused MoI to do a rule change. Well, somewhat compelling.

[CooLDoG]

Is it wrong for me to hope CD's internet goes down completely? I've never before been for a policy lynch, but it's sounding like a damn good idea this time.

Still need to re-read and watch the movie. Maybe I'll multitask this afternoon.

I'm sorry to disappoint but it appears to be an isolated incident.

@lmp, your wall was pathetic. However, some of your other posts are *better*.
Still holds vote. Also you seem to defend more players then scum hunt...

Also, I confess this has to be my single worst game that I have ever played.

I'm getting a slight scummy read off of UK (gut mostly). UT has picked up the slack but I still find him on the fringes. My vote stays on lmp unless I'm forced to move it.

@Zang, mind confirming the AGM claim?

[AlmasterGM]

@Zang, mind confirming the AGM claim?

This...this...this...

WHAT IS THIS.

Give me ONE SCENARIO where a person in my position would ever FAKECLAIM BEING NEIGHBORS with somebody in Zang's position.

Go on. Give me one.

[havingfitz]

Wow. I apologize UK. I didn't realize you had a ""visitor"" atm nor that you were the best scumhunter on this site. I'm certain your track record for finding scum on D1 is close to 100% and I will try to learn from your skills. Thanks for playing in this game. If I ever get caught up I'm sure I'll find someone better to place my vote on. For now I'll keep it on you so I can continue to bask in your kind words.

ooxxooXoXXx

[CooLDoG]

agm, to implicate the other person. If you claim neighbor, and I'm a scum neighbor to you. I could claim that I'm not a neighbor and try to implicate you. Done.

@hav, what's with that?

[Mariyta]

Is it wrong for me to hope CD's internet goes down completely? I've never before been for a policy lynch, but it's sounding like a damn good idea this time.

Still need to re-read and watch the movie. Maybe I'll multitask this afternoon.

I'm sorry to disappoint but it appears to be an isolated incident.

@lmp, your wall was pathetic. However, some of your other posts are *better*.
Still holds vote. Also you seem to defend more players then scum hunt...

Also, I confess this has to be my single worst game that I have ever played.

I'm getting a slight scummy read off of UK (gut mostly). UT has picked up the slack but I still find him on the fringes. My vote stays on lmp unless I'm forced to move it.

@Zang, mind confirming the AGM claim?

I think I'm starting to enjoy playing with you. It's gone past the point of irritation, past the point of just wanting you dead, straight to absolute hilarity. I seriously would love to get a look inside that brain of yours to see just how convoluted your thoughts are when unchecked.

[CooLDoG]

Ohh they are epic. I see pink elephants and everything, and I haven't even started on the butter flies.

Actually I'm considered a pretty intelligent guy in my community (says a lot for them). But I can't seem to get in to the particular game for some reason. If it is any consolation, I think you slightly townish...

[AlmasterGM]

agm, to implicate the other person. If you claim neighbor, and I'm a scum neighbor to you. I could claim that I'm not a neighbor and try to implicate you. Done.

So Zang is going to LIE about being a neighbor to incriminate me?

WHY THE FUCK WOULD HE DO THAT?

A 1:1 trade is TERRIBLE for scum (and believe me, it'll be a 1:1 trade because the second I flip town Zang becomes confirmedscum in that scenario) under NORMAL circumstances. Add in the fact that I strongly believe Zang is town and other people are siding with me?

YEAH, UNSUSPECTED SCUM DEFINITELY WANT TO SACRIFICE THEMSELVES TO 1:1 WITH A TOWNIE.

YEAHHHHH.

This concludes our episode of "Adventures with a VI: CooLDoG Edition." Join in next time when we talk about how lynching VIs is good for the town! I'm your host, AlmasterGM, signing off - goodnight, and have a VI-free tomorrow!