1119: The Might of Mordor: Game Over

[quadz08]

Ok. Here are my thoughts on AGM with this new info:

Confirmed town is, in fact, pretty powerful. Your passive ability is at least as powerful, especially if it comes with a vote, because you become a confirmed townie who CAN'T BE KILLED. Your logic on trying to save it until endgame seems very intelligent and pro-town. However, I disagree with point 2 of this statement in ISO 31:

In any case, since the primary function of my ability is to save myself from being mislynched, claiming it at a time when 1) I was facing imminent death and 2) we weren't really sure who to imbue seemed like a decent move.

At that point, I was pretty much the choice for getting the Ring tonight. Nonetheless, claiming before imminent death (which, ironically, was L-1. Remember when that wasn't a big deal? Oh yeah, that was when someone ELSE was at L-1.) However, I see no scum-benefit worth making this claim. If he's lying, we'll find out quickly tomorrow, and he'll be the lynch. Additionally, there's no way for him to fake it unless this game is super-bastardly (i.e., the mod lies). And if we DO imbue him, and he becomes confirmed, that makes our statistical chance of lynching scum that much higher.

He's played scummily, and if the two people (which should be chosen by the town, btw) do not receive a PM that says he's confirmed, then he gets rope tomorrow. However, having a confirmed townie is a very powerful asset for the town, so I think it's worth giving him the Ring tonight.

imbue: AGM

P-EDIT: Anybody else beginning to think Gandalf is a jester?

[AlmasterGM]

Ok, here is as clear of a claim as I can give without quoting my role PM. I thought my claim was clear before, but whatever.

REGULAR ABILITY: Andrius send a message with the contents of my choice to the player of my choice. The contents are not modconfirmed.
SUPER ABILITY: Andrius modconfirms me as town to two target players of my choice.
PASSIVE ABILITY: For the first day after I die, I can still vote and talk as if I was alive. I do not count towards the lynch threshold (e.g., if there were 7 players alive plus me, it takes 4 to lynch, not 5), but my vote DOES count towards the lynch.

That's it.

My power does not cause me to die. That is stemming from a simple typo where I said "my super does XXX" when I meant to say "my passive does XXX."

also, gandalf is a fucking moron.

[AlmasterGM]

Confirmed town is, in fact, pretty powerful. Your passive ability is at least as powerful, especially if it comes with a vote, because you become a confirmed townie who CAN'T BE KILLED. :

I can be killed, it's just that my spirit sticks around for A DAY after my death and I can still talk/vote as if I were alive. Once a full day has past since my death, I'm 100% dead.

[gandalf5166]

No, seriously. If you were scum, and you were about to die, but your superpower was something super awesome like "Recruit another member at the cost of your own life"(just the first thing that pops to mind, I know it's a little much), then how would you make sure you lived and got to use it? Say that you could be confirmed, of course.

[AlmasterGM]

Flavorwise, it's probable that scum do not have superpowers. Just saying.

If you were scum, and you were about to die, but your superpower was something super awesome like

[quadz08]

Ah, didn't notice that in your original claim. That does make that particular ability somewhat less powerful... nonetheless, it doesn't affect my decision on giving you the Ring.

P-EDIT: Gandalf, that's possible. You're right. However, I feel like his claim is too well-developed (with the passive ability and everything) for it to be a fakeclaim.

Also, lol at AGM.

[Mariyta]

I believe AGM. MasterSpy wagon, hooo!

[Plum]

Okay, so, AGM Imbue votes.

Edge at least the thought process behind Imbuing and getting the Imbue vote off is apparent. That's actually more than I can say for the rest on a whole.

Gandalf's Imbue vote I cannot read because it's tailing Edge but man he's going to have to show he's committed a few of his own braincells to this game and sharpish.

SPYREX is smart enough to notice that it's not a power worth Imbuing once it's claimed, or at least think about some of the ramifications or potential flipsides.

Quadz says something about accountability at least.

KATY is just going with the flow way way too much; I can't remember much if anything of what she's done. Encouraging testing is not thinking about the potential major pitfalls if AGM is lying, not for real. If you're worried that AGM might be scum you'd try to think through the ramifications of giving him the Ring in the first place. And considering Katy had been voting AGM just before . . . NO. Dammit we've let Katy drift as she pleases getting no heat WAY TOO LONG.

Mari says . . . nothing really.

The hell, all of these are freaking scummy except probably Edge and quite possibly Quadz. The rest all stick in different ways, but KATY. Is prob-scum.

PREVIEW EDITS:

No, seriously. If you were scum, and you were about to die, but your superpower was something super awesome like "Recruit another member at the cost of your own life"(just the first thing that pops to mind, I know it's a little much), then how would you make sure you lived and got to use it? Say that you could be confirmed, of course.

This. Thanks, Gandalf.

AGM trying to discredit that by citing Gandalf's early game flavor-based setup speculation is WEAK.

He's played scummily, and if the two people (which should be chosen by the town, btw) do not receive a PM that says he's confirmed, then he gets rope tomorrow. However, having a confirmed townie is a very powerful asset for the town, so I think it's worth giving him the Ring tonight.

If he's played scummily, we SHOULD NOT give him the Ring. There's too much potential for Roleblocks and/or WIFOM related to such, or, worse yet, for him to die before any use if made of his confirmed Townieness.

[Mariyta]

Mari says . . . nothing really.

Ya know, I was going to find a nice way to say this, but screw you.

[AlmasterGM]

Regardless of whether what gandalf is saying is valid or not, I think my post succinctly proves that gandalf does not actually form coherent thoughts or process information himself, he just spews copies of whatever Edge is saying.

[Plum]

Mari says . . . nothing really.

Ya know, I was going to find a nice way to say this, but screw you.

Pardon?

AGM, are your two targets confirmed as town, too, or can you target scum?

Imbue: AGM

Maybe you said a little in the way of asking about accountability. What I saw was a fairly automatic Imbue vote for AGM added. The question didn't seem to require an answer before you voted a pretty big Imbue wagon. And you're the one who's said that Imbuing is/can be more powerful than the lynch, come to think of it. So that's not really saying anything besides joining the Imbue wagon. No?

PREVIEW EDIT:

@AGM

- Did Gandalf sheep that thought process or not? In any case, the point is still valid.

[Mariyta]

I have said a lot more than that, but everyone chooses to ignore it. Especially after VV's "Oh, look, it's crazy Mari again." And no, the question didn't require an answer for the imbue. It was a question I wanted an answer to, though, which got me deemed as stupid. You may think you're giving a logical answer for your shitty comment, but it's still a shitty comment.

I'm not posting here for the next 2 days. I'll be back Thursday.

[Katy]

KATY is just going with the flow way way too much; I can't remember much if anything of what she's done. Encouraging testing is not thinking about the potential major pitfalls if AGM is lying, not for real. If you're worried that AGM might be scum you'd try to think through the ramifications of giving him the Ring in the first place. And considering Katy had been voting AGM just before . . . NO. Dammit we've let Katy drift as she pleases getting no heat WAY TOO LONG.

I believe his claim. I don't really like his activity in this day all that much, but that doesn't mean I have to automatically disbelieve his claim. I think the percentage chance that he is lying to conceal some amazing superpower that lets scum get an enormous advantage are slim. I also think if he were lying he would have chosen something else to claim, something more intrinsically powerful and less confirmable.

I also think if we are going to play as paranoid as many people are getting right now, then we are going to paralyze ourselves out of doing anything. I think it's worth testing his claim if we can get a mod-confirmed townie, especially one like AGM who might have to become an NK target over more desirable targets for scum, if he becomes a confirmed townie. For me, the potential benefits make this a worthwhile risk. Scum WANT you to second guess every plan that may help town. They want town to be afraid to take risks. They want town to be scared that they have massive superpowers that can destroy us. But we are the frakking dark forces of Sauron and we have the RING. We do not cower like babies before cutesy little half-men and simpering elves.

Anyway, if I was scum, I could have just helped get you lynched today instead of sticking on AGM until the bitter end.

[quadz08]

I believe his claim. I don't really like his activity in this day all that much, but that doesn't mean I have to automatically disbelieve his claim. I think the percentage chance that he is lying to conceal some amazing superpower that lets scum get an enormous advantage are slim. I also think if he were lying he would have chosen something else to claim, something more intrinsically powerful and less confirmable.

I also think if we are going to play as paranoid as many people are getting right now, then we are going to paralyze ourselves out of doing anything. I think it's worth testing his claim if we can get a mod-confirmed townie, especially one like AGM who might have to become an NK target over more desirable targets for scum, if he becomes a confirmed townie. For me, the potential benefits make this a worthwhile risk. Scum WANT you to second guess every plan that may help town. They want town to be afraid to take risks. They want town to be scared that they have massive superpowers that can destroy us. But we are the frakking dark forces of Sauron and we have the RING. We do not cower like babies before cutesy little half-men and simpering elves.

Anyway, if I was scum, I could have just helped get you lynched today instead of sticking on AGM until the bitter end.

This entire post is true. (Except possibly the last line, which is full o' WIFOM, of course.)

Also, I'm liking my vote on Mariyta more and more.

[AlmasterGM]

PREVIEW EDIT: @AGM - Did Gandalf sheep that thought process or not? In any case, the point is still valid.

Almost certainly. If his stance begins as "scum don't have superpowers," a stance he defended pretty staunchly and then switches to "scum have awesomesauce supers," something HAS to have occurred inbetween the two. That "something" was Edge suspecting me.

Notice specifically that when Edge imbues me, gandalf imbues me too and doesn't mention the theory at all. He only constructs the theory when he needs a reason to sheep.

And there are a dozen other examples of this too, I'm sure.

[SpyreX]

Almost certainly. If his stance begins as "scum don't have superpowers," a stance he defended pretty staunchly and then switches to "scum have awesomesauce supers," something HAS to have occurred inbetween the two. That "something" was Edge suspecting me.

Notice specifically that when Edge imbues me, gandalf imbues me too and doesn't mention the theory at all. He only constructs the theory when he needs a reason to sheep.

And there are a dozen other examples of this too, I'm sure.

See this.

This is what I've been talkin about there.

Additionally I'm missing what in the hell happened.

[VasudeVa]

WTF does WIFOM potential mean? Is that like "lynch her even though I don't suspect her because she's a distraction's" second cousin? Please elaborate on why you want someone you read as town to die ASAP.

Massive meta-WIFOM potential means exactly what it means.

Mariyta has been acting very similarly to LOTR where she was a scummy whiny cause for headaches. Since a lot of the players in this game came from the previous game, it opens up the potential of her acting like what she had been acting in the previous game for town points.

So far, I'm getting a LOT of pings of Town Mari but that is mostly because of my previous experience with her

not because of what she's actually doing in this game.

. Last game she's acted like this and we very nearly lynched her multiple times. It was her early vote on the scumGF lynch D1 that ultimately absolved her. But I'm getting some 'waitaminite I've seen this shit before' paranoia.

---

On my Fake Hammer

After Andy posted VC6 he was at L-3 , I moved my vote to Spyrex after that, putting him back to L-4.

Edge and Gandalf voted for him putting him at L-2. When AGM was like 'OMG IM AT A L-1, STOP GUIZE I CLAIM', I checked the votals. He wasn't at L-1 he was at L-2. I saw that as an opportunity to drop a fake hammer to get him to react.

I fully expected Town to go like "OMG. VAS YOU IDIOT. *expletives here*. Instead he went to check the vote counts first

before

reacting. He wanted to react properly. Now who does that?

If you aren't conviced check out AGM ISO #2, then #15 and #16. His ISO #2 was a call for people with regular powerz to not nominate themselves for a power.

Why didn't he imbue himself at that post then? Why did he wait to put Plum at L-1 before having the balls to imbue himself?

A lot of his actions just doesn't add up. Vote AGM at your leisure please.

BTW, I'm serious that I think that he probably has ring destroying capabilites. His L-1 vote on Plum was horribad and his actions throughout this game are mostly efforts to look good. I think he's trying to destroy the ring or at least do something with it before we take him down.

Also, quadz has lost his Town read. His #313-#315 are looking pretty faked. When he got here, the series of ninja posting were already done and it had calmed down at that point. The whole shenanigan with the fake hammer happened 30 mins ago via timestamps by the time he posted #313-#315. I don't get why he's posting like he's in the party when the party was already over.

unimbue: quadz

imbue: Katy

[gandalf5166]

I think that destroying the ring would cause all kinds of balance problems, but I agree with everything Vas just said.

[AlmasterGM]

VV is always wrong, so the fact that he thinks I am scum should automatically mean I am town.

That historically consistent theorem aside, the argument is bad because it presumes that town are ALWAYS reckless raging morons. Yes, I decided to triple-check the "hammer" vote. DOESN'T MEAN SCUM.

Also, to be honest, I wouldn't even be surprised if VV is making all of this up ex post facto and actually meant to throw the hammer.

[VasudeVa]

Bullshit. I don't believe you. If you were the type to triple check the "hammer" vote, you would also be the type to triple check your votes. You inaccurately shouted L-1 when Edge and Gandalf speedvoted you, but you accurately say that it wasn't a hammer? That's a bit too inconsistent for me to be comfortable with. If were Town and you reacted "OMG AT L-1" on what you perceived as the L-1 vote, you would ALSO react similarly at a perceived hammer. Instead, you chose to double check this time for realz because you are afraid of saying.

Vas actually meant to hammer and is making this up post facto = VV is ???.
You are holding something back here. You are

implying that I am scum

...without actually calling me scum. Why imply? Why aren't you saying out loud?

And that isn't even the meat of the case. That's like the frosting on an awesome cake to make it look more awesome. It's that ISO #2, #15-#16. Now there's a scum gold mine if I ever saw one. No defense about that one?

Can we imbue someone and lynch AGM already?

I'm fine with imbuing Gandalf/Katy.

[VasudeVa]

I also think if he were lying he would have chosen something else to claim, something more intrinsically powerful and less confirmable.

Not if he were Frodo, the ring destroying midget.

I seem to remember a similar situation at LOTR maf. Remember a2rudeboy's claim? That Pippin = hider one? I don't remember your stance then, but I fell for that one. Ever since then, I learned that scumclaim WIFOM is best left untouched.

[SpyreX]

I'm still missing the boat entirely on this one.

[AlmasterGM]

There is no boat, it's just Edge yelling incessantly like he usually does and then the rest of the VI-brigade rushing to agree with him so they don't become his next victim.

VV, your arguments are just wrong. There is no real way to disprove them, but they are still wrong. When this game is over you can add another tally to the 1029419214935202 times you've been wrong in mafia before.

[AlmasterGM]

And I'm serious about that boat. Look at it. It's DISTINCTLY divided into the following groups:

PRO-AGM RING: All the logical, rational, townies in this game.
ANTI-AGM RING: Edge (aka rabble rouser), Plum (aka scum), and all the VIs.

[SpyreX]

The only thing in this mess that gives me pause is, really, from your first post and what we've seen I'd have expected you to make more of a push for the ring - your normal is junk, but the superpower is not bad.

But, I dont think its top of the mountain awesome so I kinda dig?

And this jump to ring-eater I don't get.

----

NOW, before all the madness happened I was thinking give the ring to someone else, leave you be, let party time happen. I don't think that outcome makes sense as it sits.