Mini 1096 - Seinfeld Mafia (Game Over)

[MagnaofIllusion]

Now, I know that you've breadcrumbed your fake-claim before as scum, and specifically breadcrumbed a vanilla fake-claim. See ACoK.

Funny story about that. Go back and look at that breadcrumb again. I wasn’t breadcrumbing VT I was breadcrumbing Limited Bulletproof

When CMAR flipped 2 shot Bulletproof Day 1 that blew my fake-claim of a 1-shot Bulletproof out of the water. So when it came time for me to claim I shortened the ‘breadcrumb’ to just say Hodor instead of Hodor LIM BP. Had anyone bothered to actually look at the crumb instead of taking me at my word in the claim I might have been busted.

There is never any reason to breadcrumb a Vanilla role.

Fonz, I pretty much agree with you. I'm thinking there's a solid chance that Jahudo-scum saw his scum-buddy Haschel floundering and decided to try to counter-claim to get himself semi-confirmed.

This is exactly why I wanted to be able to confirm Jahudo had some ability by targeting Fonz. I very much do not like the fact that he ‘forgot’ he was targeting someone and it just happens to be Untrod.

@UNTROD – PLEASE DO NOT POST IN THREAD THAT YOU HAVE USED YOUR ABILITY ON FONZ. I WANT JAHUDO TO BE ABLE TO STATE IT FIRST AFTER HE RECEIVES THE PM FROM THE MOD. THANK YOU.

--

Role Claim Summary

Known flips –

Rajr, LMP and Katsuki – VT (3)

Claimed roles (in order of Popcorn, which may be important) –

Untrod – Jackie Chiles, Vote Manipulator
Mac – Lloyd Braud, VT
Tal -Sue Ellen Mischke, VT
Fonz – David Puddy, VT
Charter – Morty Seinfeld, Neighborizer
Kmd4390 – Estelle Costanza, VT
Haschel – Newman, Weak Cop
Jahudo – Newman, Weak Tracker
MoI – Joe Davola, Watcher

--

Things I am noticing from the Mass-claims –

Untrod specifically said he was a Town Vote Manipulator. My role did not say Town Watcher. This bears consideration down the line.

[Kdub]

JERRY: What are you saying?
ELAINE: I'm not saying anything.
JERRY: You're saying something.
ELAINE: What could I be saying?
JERRY: Well you're not saying nothing so you must me saying something.
ELAINE: If I were saying something, I would have said it.
JERRY: So why don't you say it?
ELAINE: I said it.
JERRY: What did you say?
ELAINE: Nothing.

Vote Count

charter (0) -
The Fonz (0) -
MagnaofIllusion (0) -
Jahudo (0) -
Haschel Cedricson (0) -
Talitha (0) -
Untrod Tripod (0) -
Kmd4390 (0) -
MacavityLock (0) -
Not Voting (9) - charter, The Fonz, MagnaofIllusion, Jahudo, Haschel Cedricson, Talitha, Untrod Tripod, Kmd4390, MacavityLock

9 votes available, 5 votes needed to lynch.

[Jahudo]

Town isn't a part of my role name either. I just know my alignment by the color green and the win condition, like the sample PM.

Jahudo, did you discuss your role/power with charter in your Neighbor thread?

No, charter didn't ask for a claim.

[Kmd4390]

If scum have fakeclaims, it doesn't make sense not to use them. The only possibilities I can come up with are:
1) one of the fakeclaims was such a minor character that no one would believe it, so haschelscum chose newman and was countered by jahudotown
2) hascheltown claimed his role a jahudoscum countered a bad claim to get a mislynch
3) haschelscum and jahudoscum decided to claim the same character to "confirm" one of them and ride to endgame.

1 is possible, but it just seems like a poor play on haschel's part. 2 makes sense considering 4 scum with 9 players left. 3 seems too pointless right now with scum having a numbers advantage.

I actually think a jahudo lynch sounds better than one on haschel.

[Haschel Cedricson]

WHY HC IS LYING SCUM:
-HC and I claim to have the same character name.
-HC claims he is a cop, I claim I am a tracker with a mailman flavor in my role PM. Newman is a mailman on the TV show, not a cop.

My ability is called

Nemesis

.

Your argument is ridiculous. Newman is a mailman on the show, not a tracker.

See, I can make stupid non sequitors too. You may as well counterclaim the others with "Morty is a dad on the TV show, not a neighborizer", or "Jackie Chiles is a lawyer, not a vote manipulator.

Fonz, I pretty much agree with you. I'm thinking there's a solid chance that Jahudo-scum saw his scum-buddy Haschel floundering and decided to try to counter-claim to get himself semi-confirmed.

Except I wasn't floundering. UT's argument is equally ridiculous. Let's take a look at the rules again:

End of Day actions can be submitted at any time, but will only resolve at the end of the day.

I get my results during the time between days. It may not be a technical "night" but it functions exactly the same as one in terms of me finding things out. UT finding it scummy to refer to the time between days as a night is grasping towards straws.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey Haschel care to comment on how you claim of scanning LMP Day 1 (based on your list order) is bullshit since I was watching him all day long?

Nice to see how reponsive and active you are in thread now that you are under fire.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Hey Haschel care to comment on how you claim of scanning LMP Day 1 (based on your list order) is bullshit since I was watching him all day long?

Nice to see how reponsive and active you are in thread now that you are under fire.

Sure, it's not bullshit and you are either lying or were roleblocked or something else we don't know about happened.

I actually suspect the latter two, since I've had a town read on you the whole game.

As for your last comment, my activity level is cyclical, and apparently right now I'm at the top of the cycle. You of all the players in here should know this.

[Jahudo]

Ok UT is targeting someone.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok UT is targeting someone.

@UT - Please confirm or deny that you sent a PM to KDub prior to the time-stamp of Jahudo's post.

[Untrod Tripod]

Untrod specifically said he was a Town Vote Manipulator. My role did not say Town Watcher. This bears consideration down the line.

Since I was the first person to claim, I decided to claim absolutely everything contained in my role PM to get the claims started off right.

Ok UT is targeting someone.

That doesn't prove your alignment, but it at least proves your ability.

For Magna, my ability went through at 11:07 am PST.

WHY HC IS LYING SCUM:
-HC and I claim to have the same character name.
-HC claims he is a cop, I claim I am a tracker with a mailman flavor in my role PM. Newman is a mailman on the TV show, not a cop.

My ability is called

Nemesis

.

Your argument is ridiculous. Newman is a mailman on the show, not a tracker.

See, I can make stupid non sequitors too. You may as well counterclaim the others with "Morty is a dad on the TV show, not a neighborizer", or "Jackie Chiles is a lawyer, not a vote manipulator.

Fonz, I pretty much agree with you. I'm thinking there's a solid chance that Jahudo-scum saw his scum-buddy Haschel floundering and decided to try to counter-claim to get himself semi-confirmed.

Except I wasn't floundering. UT's argument is equally ridiculous. Let's take a look at the rules again:

End of Day actions can be submitted at any time, but will only resolve at the end of the day.

I get my results during the time between days. It may not be a technical "night" but it functions exactly the same as one in terms of me finding things out. UT finding it scummy to refer to the time between days as a night is grasping towards straws.

Blah blah blah scummy pontification blah blah blah. Listen, there's a pretty specific etiquette to massclaims. You had a lot of time to think about what you were going to claim, it's not like someone phoned you up and said "HEY, CLAIM, TELL US WHAT YOUR ABILITY IS" and you had to claim off the cuff.

You claimed you had a "night" ability in a game with no nights. Funny that you can bother to understand the difference now that someone called you on a false claim. Lying is scummy. End of story. Unless you can prove anything, you've made the scummy claim here.

Plus, IMO in this game, tracker makes a lot more sense than cop. Just saying.

As for your last comment, my activity level is cyclical, and apparently right now I'm at the top of the cycle. You of all the players in here should know this.

Loldongs. Make excuses all you want, but you weren't participating. I don't care.

[Talitha]

I am assuming that one of the Newmans is lying. Two town with same role name would be bastard moddery, and I doubt they are both lying - a Seinfeld game without Newman is unlikely IMO.
Not to make any hasty decisions but Jahudo looks the dodgiest to me right now. Missed choices. Used his ability first thing today, of all days, instead of waiting to see if it could be used to catch someone in an endgame lie. And the timing (after UT pulled up Haschel about his claim) looks like an opportunistic gambit.
And I agree with whoever said it doesn't really make sense for Haschel-scum to claim Newman at that point. Even if he didn't have a safe claim to use, there were only two more people after him.. he could've easily picked a less major character and probably been fine.

[Jahudo]

@Magna: When you said you received no information on anyone targeting LMP, did you get a PM from the mod or not? Because the way my role works I wouldn't know if I was roleblocked or not.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Magna: When you said you received no information on anyone targeting LMP, did you get a PM from the mod or not? Because the way my role works I wouldn't know if I was roleblocked or not.

No PM from the Mod at all, except PMs confirming that he has received my action and answering related questions.

And I have received nothing today regarding anyone targetting Fonz.

That doesn't make me happy.

[Untrod Tripod]

@Magna: When you said you received no information on anyone targeting LMP, did you get a PM from the mod or not? Because the way my role works I wouldn't know if I was roleblocked or not.

No PM from the Mod at all, except PMs confirming that he has received my action and answering related questions.

And I have received nothing today regarding anyone targetting Fonz.

That doesn't make me happy.

I think Fonz should try to cast a vote.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think Fonz should try to cast a vote.

I think he should do so and then have the Mod confirm.

Because if your ability is proven it more or less assures me that I've probably been roleblocked every day.

Which makes my information on Haschel useless.

[Jahudo]

In which case, why on Earth would you claim Newman as scum? It basically guarantees a counterclaim. I smell weird gambit, though what exactly I haven't a clue.

Gambit from who, HC or me?

If I already knew I could confirm my role power with UT, then it means I am either scum with him or I am a tracker like I say. If I was scum why would I connect myself to a buddy? Why would I try and force a "one or the other" situation with HC?

Missed choices. Used his ability first thing today, of all days, instead of waiting to see if it could be used to catch someone in an endgame lie. And the timing (after UT pulled up Haschel about his claim) looks like an opportunistic gambit.

* BV missed day 1, I can't say why. I missed day 3 because I said I wanted to hammer, but HC did it first.
* I didn't put much stock into a power that didn't distinguish "no result" from "blocked result". I just wanted to use it, to use it.

Your argument is ridiculous. Newman is a mailman on the show, not a tracker.

I assumed cop was also your ability flavor, since you provided none. Mine is mail route, that I am a mailman. By delivering mail I am able to weak track people. I still don't see how "nemesis" allows you to identify Jerry. What else is in your role PM?

2) hascheltown claimed his role a jahudoscum countered a bad claim to get a mislynch

How are you separating bad from scum in this case?

His role proved nothing about his ability. I have proved my ability on the condition that UT is also telling the truth about his.

[MacavityLock]

I am assuming that one of the Newmans is lying. Two town with same role name would be bastard moddery, and

I doubt they are both lying - a Seinfeld game without Newman is unlikely IMO.

Outguessing the mod. Main, or main-er, characters can easily be given as fake-claims. I've done it before. (Jimmy McNulty as fake-claim in The Wire.)

That said, if Newman is a fake-claim, then both Haschel and Jahudo are scum. If Haschel is scum and Jahudo is town, it suggests that scum weren't given fake-claims, which is interesting. Jahudo-scum gambiting to attempt to end the game is plausible.

Now, Jahudo and Haschel, why aren't you voting for each other?

[Jahudo]

I can vote but my intention is already clear, and I am respecting Magna's wish to make preparations for tomorrow. I don't want my vote to be a sign that anyone else can start voting. Scum could try a quick bandwagon if I have a townie or two on me.

Maybe scum are given a couple confirmed fake claims and a couple unconfirmed fake claims? I'm trying to think of most-likely scenario's but its hard to judge that.

[Talitha]

Jahudo: who were you going to target on Day 3? Why were you waiting until right before you hammered?

MacLock: I acknowledge they could both be scum, I just think it's less likely than only one of them being scum.

[Kmd4390]

2) hascheltown claimed his role a jahudoscum countered a bad claim to get a mislynch

How are you separating bad from scum in this case?

Scum is Option 3.

[The Fonz]

Vote: Untrod Tripod

this should clear a few things up.

You claimed you had a "night" ability in a game with no nights. Funny that you can bother to understand the difference now that someone called you on a false claim. Lying is scummy. End of story. Unless you can prove anything, you've made the scummy claim here.

Do you believe that Haschel as scum would have been unaware of there being no nights, though?

If scum have fakeclaims, it doesn't make sense not to use them. The only possibilities I can come up with are:
1) one of the fakeclaims was such a minor character that no one would believe it, so haschelscum chose newman and was countered by jahudotown
2) hascheltown claimed his role a jahudoscum countered a bad claim to get a mislynch
3) haschelscum and jahudoscum decided to claim the same character to "confirm" one of them and ride to endgame.

1 is possible, but it just seems like a poor play on haschel's part. 2 makes sense considering 4 scum with 9 players left. 3 seems too pointless right now with scum having a numbers advantage.

I actually think a jahudo lynch sounds better than one on haschel.

1) Requires Haschscum to knowingly choose the rolename that, imho, was most certain to be counterclaimed.
2) I was expecting this to happen if Hasch was town, actually, once UT blurted out 'Hey I want to lynch this guy.' Which is, of course, why I tried to insist on no-one commenting until all claims were in in the first place.
3) Makes most sense, I think, if they were expecting one of them to be lynched today anyway.

I am assuming that one of the Newmans is lying. Two town with same role name would be bastard moddery, and I doubt they are both lying - a Seinfeld game without Newman is unlikely IMO.

Mods often give scum fakeclaims of differing strengths- for instance, one really good one, a mediocre one and a pretty obscure one, for instance. I wrote a Shrek setup that never got played that had Fiona as a safeclaim, for instance.

In which case, why on Earth would you claim Newman as scum? It basically guarantees a counterclaim. I smell weird gambit, though what exactly I haven't a clue.

Gambit from who, HC or me?

At the time I wrote, I was pretty sure of at least Haschel, and possibly you or MoI in on it as well. I find it hard to see MoI as scum, to be honest. If he were, he could easily have gone 'Oh yeah I saw Jahudo' and basically confirm himself. This actually leads me to think that, if you're not scum, charter has to be. Why? Well, why the hell would the mod give the town three confirmable abilities and nothing to the scum?

If I already knew I could confirm my role power with UT, then it means I am either scum with him or I am a tracker like I say. If I was scum why would I connect myself to a buddy? Why would I try and force a "one or the other" situation with HC?

Scum tracker.
Or, imagine you're scum without a tracking power. What's the optimal play today? Wait a while, then claim to have seen UT. That said, the fact that you posted in between him saying he'd do it and the time he claimed it actually happened, and he didn't, works in your favor.

I need to think about scenarios in which 1) makes sense. Because that's the only one where it makes sense to lynch Haschel.

[Kdub]

Vote Count

charter (0) -
The Fonz (0) -
MagnaofIllusion (0) -
Jahudo (0) -
Haschel Cedricson (0) -
Talitha (0) -
Untrod Tripod (0) - The Fonz
Kmd4390 (0) -
MacavityLock (0) -
Not Voting (8) - charter, MagnaofIllusion, Jahudo, Haschel Cedricson, Talitha, Untrod Tripod, Kmd4390, MacavityLock

8 votes available, 5 votes needed to lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Fonz is trying to find a reason to vote haschel and is voting untrod. Obvjahudobuddy.

[Jahudo]

2) hascheltown claimed his role a jahudoscum countered a bad claim to get a mislynch

How are you separating bad from scum in this case?

Scum is Option 3.

I mean how can you or anyone besides myself tell Haschel gave a bad claim and not a scum fake claim?

UT's point about Haschel saying "night" would be a horrible reason for hypo-scum to think they could attack the claim itself. Its like saying villager instead of vanilla townie, everyone knows what is intended because its in the OP. Scum are aware of the OP. So the tell is not on one's alignment but how closely they are paying attention to the flavor of the game.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Plus, IMO in this game, tracker makes a lot more sense than cop. Just saying.

How does a tracker make sense in a game where there are apparently no night kills to be tracked?

Also, if UT, Jahudo, MOI, and charter are all telling the truth, then we have a game where it's easy for cross-confirmation to screw the scumteam without giving them a chance to eliminate the powerroles.

Somebody asked why I wasn't voting. It was agreed that we were going to discuss the claims first.

Right, class now, so I may not respond to this thread immediately.