Mini 1,115: Ozy and Millie Mafia (Game over!)

[Zyrconium]

I've been reading along, but not had much to say, in particular, I've got relatively strong reads on Emp in both directions, which is kinda confusing me, so was grateful for the pressure there, and by the time I saw the LyMP wagon it already had enough momentum(for a wagon on scum), and has continued to until now.

Incase the rest of my response hasn't suggested the answer, the question was about both reads.

[werewolf555]

Ghostlin, your logic makes me cry.

[Antihero]

Guys: Werewolf has put us in a hostage situation: if he's a lying piece of scum, he's betting on our love of keeping the cop alive as a WIFOM to prevent a lynch, if he's not a lying piece of scum; he's created a situation whereupon we will continue to examine the gamestate that he's created as in 'why hasn't scum killed him yet? Maybe he's scum.' I believe, by claiming Cop on Day 1 with little onus and little benefit for town, he wants to create town cred that his poor play can't heep up with. If he acutally is the Cop, he's just drawn down any scummy roleblockers onto himself. Yes, this is a PoE vote, but I don't think it's a bad one.

Vote: Werewolf

^scum

Seriously, this is it? After all that (the LMP wagon, Empking's play...) this is the only thing you have to talk about + a vote on a claimed cop.

You fail.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ghostlin

[Parama]

There's no reason for the LMP to break down just because of a claim.
In fact, this is exactly what I'd expect to happen if we wagoned scum.

[werewolf555]

To me it looks like he is trying to move a counter wagon to save LMP scumbuddy.
More votes on him please.

[Parama]

More votes on LMP, rather, since that wagon is much bigger and also superior.

[Ghostlin]

Guys: Werewolf has put us in a hostage situation: if he's a lying piece of scum, he's betting on our love of keeping the cop alive as a WIFOM to prevent a lynch, if he's not a lying piece of scum; he's created a situation whereupon we will continue to examine the gamestate that he's created as in 'why hasn't scum killed him yet? Maybe he's scum.' I believe, by claiming Cop on Day 1 with little onus and little benefit for town, he wants to create town cred that his poor play can't heep up with. If he acutally is the Cop, he's just drawn down any scummy roleblockers onto himself. Yes, this is a PoE vote, but I don't think it's a bad one.

Vote: Werewolf

^scum

Seriously, this is it? After all that (the LMP wagon, Empking's play...) this is the only thing you have to talk about + a vote on a claimed cop.

You fail.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ghostlin

You removed a vote on someone you thought was scum just to say 'you suck?'

Yes, Empking's play blows utter goats. So does werewolf's, and Empking's play is almost blatant buddying. "Let's follow the cop." And then you expect werewolf to be utter town after his awful play that got him to L-1 in the first place because now he can manufacture town cred by claiming cop. Fact is, that sounds incredibly scummy and I think it's entirely possible, considering Empking's play and reversal; that he could possibly be partnered to werewolf scum.

So really, your idea of a vote is to tell me I suck, not bothering to explain the reasons why and removing your vote from who you believed three seconds ago was scum. Explain to me how this is better or worse than my analysis of the werewolf claim.

NOW.

[Empking]

178: Pure truth.

[Antihero]

Guys: Werewolf has put us in a hostage situation: if he's a lying piece of scum, he's betting on our love of keeping the cop alive as a WIFOM to prevent a lynch, if he's not a lying piece of scum; he's created a situation whereupon we will continue to examine the gamestate that he's created as in 'why hasn't scum killed him yet? Maybe he's scum.' I believe, by claiming Cop on Day 1 with little onus and little benefit for town, he wants to create town cred that his poor play can't heep up with. If he acutally is the Cop, he's just drawn down any scummy roleblockers onto himself. Yes, this is a PoE vote, but I don't think it's a bad one.

Vote: Werewolf

^scum

Seriously, this is it? After all that (the LMP wagon, Empking's play...) this is the only thing you have to talk about + a vote on a claimed cop.

You fail.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ghostlin

You removed a vote on someone you thought was scum just to say 'you suck?'

Yes, Empking's play blows utter goats. So does werewolf's, and Empking's play is almost blatant buddying. "Let's follow the cop." And then you expect werewolf to be utter town after his awful play that got him to L-1 in the first place because now he can manufacture town cred by claiming cop. Fact is, that sounds incredibly scummy and I think it's entirely possible, considering Empking's play and reversal; that he could possibly be partnered to werewolf scum.

So really, your idea of a vote is to tell me I suck, not bothering to explain the reasons why and removing your vote from who you believed three seconds ago was scum. Explain to me how this is better or worse than my analysis of the werewolf claim.

NOW.

Well, I did explain the reason why. You're commentary was restricted to the cop claim, and other stuff happened, but now that I got your attitude on Empking out of you, I'm a little more satisfied. What's your take on the LMP wagon?

The only thing that gives me pause with LMP is that usually scum fakeclaims are of minor characters and Llewellyn isn't one of those. I guess SC could have purposefully not put in Llewellyn or made him a "bad guy," but still...

[Empking]

Guys: Werewolf has put us in a hostage situation: if he's a lying piece of scum, he's betting on our love of keeping the cop alive as a WIFOM to prevent a lynch, if he's not a lying piece of scum; he's created a situation whereupon we will continue to examine the gamestate that he's created as in 'why hasn't scum killed him yet? Maybe he's scum.' I believe, by claiming Cop on Day 1 with little onus and little benefit for town, he wants to create town cred that his poor play can't heep up with. If he acutally is the Cop, he's just drawn down any scummy roleblockers onto himself. Yes, this is a PoE vote, but I don't think it's a bad one.

Vote: Werewolf

^scum

Seriously, this is it? After all that (the LMP wagon, Empking's play...) this is the only thing you have to talk about + a vote on a claimed cop.

You fail.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ghostlin

You removed a vote on someone you thought was scum just to say 'you suck?'

Yes, Empking's play blows utter goats. So does werewolf's, and Empking's play is almost blatant buddying. "Let's follow the cop." And then you expect werewolf to be utter town after his awful play that got him to L-1 in the first place because now he can manufacture town cred by claiming cop. Fact is, that sounds incredibly scummy and I think it's entirely possible, considering Empking's play and reversal; that he could possibly be partnered to werewolf scum.

So really, your idea of a vote is to tell me I suck, not bothering to explain the reasons why and removing your vote from who you believed three seconds ago was scum. Explain to me how this is better or worse than my analysis of the werewolf claim.

NOW.

Well, I did explain the reason why. You're commentary was restricted to the cop claim, and other stuff happened, but now that I got your attitude on Empking out of you, I'm a little more satisfied. What's your take on the LMP wagon?

The only thing that gives me pause with LMP is that usually scum fakeclaims are of minor characters and Llewellyn isn't one of those. I guess SC could have purposefully not put in Llewellyn or made him a "bad guy," but still...

Or SC might hasve followed the Xyl method of picking randomly out of characters in the game and safeclaims.

[Packbat]

@ Packbat and Parama
Why the deception in your questions towards LynchMePls? You both claimed significant flavor knowledge.

I was supporting Parama's question on general principles: if you are asked a question, you should answer the question, and it is

technically

true that other characters in Ozy and Millie have the name "Llewellyn" (just not as their only name). I agree with Par that 'deception' is a bit of a strong wording, though.

Other things: Ghostlin's relieved my concerns quite a bit with #181. Actually, he's got a good point about Empking, too. So far in his ISO Emp has:

• RVSed.
  
• Chatted about irrelevancies.
  
• Voted werewolf555 for poorly-explained reasons.
  
• Demanded a claim early.
  
• Voted no-lynch and proposed follow-the-cop.
  
• Reversed himself to vote werewolf555 again.
  
• Chatted some more - with slightly more relevancy, but nearly as little content.
  
• Switched his vote to L-1 LynchMePls.
  
• Continued chatting.

At this point, I pretty well have to admit what I was thinking yesterday, which was that I

don't

really suspect LMP - yeah, he shouldn't have claimed, but like DLG said, the way he did it was pretty towny. And when you look at the wagon on him, both Empking's and werewolf555's votes look awfully opportunistic.

VOTE: Empking

It's worth waiting a night on werewolf555 on the off chance, but if he's alive tomorrow he'll be high on my list of suspects.

[Parama]

The only thing that gives me pause with LMP is that usually scum fakeclaims are of minor characters and Llewellyn isn't one of those. I guess SC could have purposefully not put in Llewellyn or made him a "bad guy," but still...

Dumbledore

[Parama]

What I'm saying is, flavor should NEVER break a game, and SC is a good enough mod to know this.
LMP claimed a big name.
So what?
He didn't bother defending himself
He obviously isn't interested in scumhunting

That's anti-town at best and obvious scum at worst.

[Antihero]

The only thing that gives me pause with LMP is that usually scum fakeclaims are of minor characters and Llewellyn isn't one of those. I guess SC could have purposefully not put in Llewellyn or made him a "bad guy," but still...

Dumbledore

huh?

Oh yeah, he (LMP) didn't give 3 top suspects like you asked him to. P.Edit - Nix that, he didn't even post since then. But still, he didn't say "look at [specific player]" he just said "look at my wagon."

OF NOTE: werewolf didn't paraphrase the flavor PM like parama asked. I want this too.

On a related note, I agree w/ Llama that Z is scum. He still has a vote on Jerbs (even though he thinks LMP is scum), he has "strong reads on Empking in both directions" (read: fencesitting), and...that's it. Well, there's 10 more players in the game.

I hate Ghostlin's attitude of "how dare you question me" when he drops in to slap a vote on werewolf and avoid commenting on everything else, but he's getting better.

[DLG]

Also what "deception" are you talking about? That seems like extreeeme misrep FMPOV.

and it is technically true that other characters in Ozy and Millie have the name "Llewellyn" (just not as their only name). I agree with Par that 'deception' is a bit of a strong wording, though.

O.K. Since it seems that there is more than one Llewellyn character, there was no deception. My question was predicated on there only being one.

[LlamaFluff]

There's no reason for the LMP to break down just because of a claim.
In fact, this is exactly what I'd expect to happen if we wagoned scum.

I would expect the exact opposite. "Hey im a VT, you should lynch me, bye now" is the SCUM response to a quick wagon? Seriously? I would expect scum to do some sort of response, defense, and not claim flat out like that, instead try to get people off the wagon.

@Zyrc - So you think LMP is scum apparently and refuse to get on his wagon that would not be a hammer vote or even be a hammer vote of someone who has already claim because what? You are still voting Jerbs for not contributing (within the first 3 pages of the game).

Anyways, Zyrconium is the lynch here.

1) My unit of scummyness is too small, I should fix this.
2) Antihero's not being as serious as I'd like.
3) brist is fail, hopefully this will fix itself
4) Jerbs has had a whole 4 posts which actually say NOTHING... this seems a little too perfect not to be by design.

Since I ACTUALLY LIKE vezok's last post, I think I'll

This is his first "scumhunting" post of the game. He says that he doesnt have a lot of tells to work off of, early cop out. Antihero is not being serious, alrhough he specifically avoids calling this scummy, just more of an observation. Brist is not being useful, again not calling anyone scummy, just an observation. Then Jerbs is posting a little but not contributing (for the record Jerbs has RVS vote and response to others, saying he is busy, and asking a question to brist/saying he likes wagons). This is far better then the posts from quite a few others, including Zyrc (one RVS post).

What also bugs me is that Zycronium is acting like his vote on vezok was serious, when its obvious that his vote there was a RVS one.

Now, he continues to just give a nod to the L-1 wolf wagon, just saying that its "acceptable" becuase of who it is on. He doesnt say that he supports a claim, a lynch, or the wagon falling off. When he has a top scum pick, it seems odd to be indirectly supporting a policy lynch at the same time.

After that he lashes out a bit at LMP for seeming upset/surprised that wolf wagon got to L-1. Which I too was kinda surprised to see, and was even more surprised to see a claim come out of it.

Zyrc isnt scumhunting at all. He is just blindly accepting all of the wagons for "good" ones and not commenting on much else. We have no idea what he thinks on the wolf claim. Or just about everyone else in the game. Im not even entirely sure what his read on LMP is at this point, apart from him not liking that I have a town read on him.

Zyrc is scum, LMP is town, wolf is prob town.

[werewolf555]

@Antihero
Didn't realize that
-I am the school Psychiatrist and want to see an end to this bullying.
Every night I scan a person and I discover whether they are guilty or innocent

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE COUNT

Antihero (1): Fishythefish
Empking (1): Packbat
Ghostlin (1): Antihero
Jerbs (1): Zyrconium
LynchMePls (4): Parama, vezokpiraka, Empking, werewolf555
werewolf555 (3): Jerbs, LynchMePls, Ghostlin
Zyrconium (1): LlamaFluff
Not voting (1): DLG

With

13

players alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch.

Fishythefish replaces bristep123.

[StrangerCoug]

Hold up—I know that count's wrong. Let me find where I screwed up...

Edit:

Found it. Had Empking as self-voting when Packbat should have been voting Empking. Fixed.

[Parama]

I would expect the exact opposite. "Hey im a VT, you should lynch me, bye now" is the SCUM response to a quick wagon? Seriously? I would expect scum to do some sort of response, defense, and not claim flat out like that, instead try to get people off the wagon.

No, see...
LMP knows there is no good defense for his actions, and knows when he's backed into a corner, so he wants a quickhammer to end discussion as soon as possible. The less discussion about a lynch candidate, the less scumlinks it builds, hence the pro-scum motives behind quickhammering. LMP was telling a scumbuddy to hammer him.

Fishy, can you help us lynch LMP?

[werewolf555]

Antihero
please come back to the LMP wagon

[Jerbs]

alright, so I gotta doe some rereading, but heres some stuff from memory

-EMP kinda forced wolf to claim, altho his "claim or die" may not have been serious. I myself read it in more of a joking manner, and don't see why wolf decided to claim that quickly
-Z just popped in right when he was called out, and he is not making much sense, also, he sort of admits to lurking
-LMP kinda just left. Either frustrated scum, or frustrated town. I am leaning town because I don't think scum would claim VT.
-bris/fishy seems town to me, just someone who was too busy

Vote: Zyroconium

I'm not feeling well, plus the storm thats supposed to come tomorrow, makes me think i might be V/LA for some time

[Parama]

-LMP kinda just left. Either frustrated scum, or frustrated town. I am leaning town because I don't think scum would claim VT.

Seeing this is why you need to stop posting and start sheeping.
Scum can claim VT too, y'know.

[Parama]

MOD: There's a chance my power may go out soon due to freezing rain, so consider me V/LA for the next 4 days. I'll keep posting if I don't lose power, of course.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not feeling well, plus the storm thats supposed to come tomorrow, makes me think i might be V/LA for some time

That's not a good combo >< Noted.

MOD: There's a chance my power may go out soon due to freezing rain, so consider me V/LA for the next 4 days. I'll keep posting if I don't lose power, of course.

Noted also.

Vote count coming.