Open 276- Friends and Enemies Mafia (OVER)

[Newbie2010]

-Because Nobody Special is deliberately ignoring what is going on in the game. Fate seems to be paying attention and reacting.

Ok... just wanted your reasoning on the NS v. Fate talking v. voting.

-Because I haven't gotten the gut reaction to Andrius that I had to Nobody Special and Parknourie. I'm looking for something to grab onto. Townies help other townies (as Hoopla said earlier), so I'm looking for a case that I can then react positively or negatively to. I haven't made a decision on Andrius because I'm constantly second guessing myself. My read on Andrius isn't worth a vote, nor is it worth a resistance against other's votes.

If this were near deadline, and say Andrius and parknourie were at L-1, with you having not voted yet. Who would you choose?

Oh, and what are you second-guessing yourself on? Andrius' townieness or the lack of a case on Andrius?

-My question was leading towards a case, but I need more things to reference before I make a "case". I try to focus on one read at a time. If you think that's the "easy way out," then so be it.

Your read of scum is on Nobody Special because of lurking? Come on, it's obvious that you can focus on someone else when your primary focus is on someone that is lurking. It isn't too hard to focus on two people when one of them isn't really posting content. And if you insist on focusing on one person because you are used to it, that's sounding like active lurking again!

Your vote is on Parknourie, yet all of your commentary so far has been on Nobody Special, and all of your interrogation has been of me. What's the deal?

Is there something wrong with that? Nobody Special has been the most scummy in my eyes until park posted his #185, which urges me to policy lynch him. You, on the other hand, I'm seeing active lurking, and though it is on a smaller scale compared to Nobody Special, it is still notable.

[andrew94]

newbie i dont like your second point.
its like WIFOM.

[Newbie2010]

andrew: What second point in which post? If you mean my second question, its not to see if Dafish is scum or not, I just want his opinions of park and Andrius because thusfar he has said just about the same about both of them: Questionable, appeal to town, fencesit.

[flinter]

I'm very sorry. I have an important test monday, and I really have no time now. From monday on my activity should get better.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Nope, I'm going back with Hoopla. I don't like Hoopla in general this game...

Unvote, vote Hoopla

[Albert B. Rampage]

Even though I was already voting for her lol

[Albert B. Rampage]

If this were near deadline, and say Andrius and parknourie were at L-1, with you having not voted yet. Who would you choose?

I would vote for Andrius but IGMEO both of these key players. Andrius, now Empking, was lurking and avoiding the game and parnourie was posting scummy.

[Empking]

For someone going V/LA for a single day, your participation in this game is quite intriguing Empking.

Weak. Weak. Vague. Weak. Weak. Weak. Scummy. Cryptic. Weak. Weak. Not scumhunting. Weak. Weak. Active Lurking. Weak.

[andrew94]

lets get park

[Fate]

empking is a good waogn i thikk is hould vot ehim, i guess im missin somehin but all my rown reads are voting him so ill hop on

(Copy paste please, andrew)

[Nachomamma8]

There will be blood.

[Fate]

NACHO I keep forgetting you're in this game.

DIDNT YOU PROMISE ME AN ACTUAL CASE AND SHIT SO THAT WE COULD END THIS DAY?

[andrew94]

andrew: What second point in which post? If you mean my second question, its not to see if Dafish is scum or not, I just want his opinions of park and Andrius because thusfar he has said just about the same about both of them: Questionable, appeal to town, fencesit.

i meant your question of whether to vote andrius or park.
lets say if it really did happen, and he changes his mind, what then

[Nachomamma8]

@Dafish:
The first and main part of why Andrius is scum is based on his lurking. From a townie perspective, there's absolutely NO reason for him to lurk; instead, there's strong incentive for him not to. Do you remember how in the beginning of the game he had special shout-outs to Hoopla and DDD, telling them he had improved his town play before and that he wasn't going to lurk or do anything awful like that? Well, he shows absolutely no effort whatsoever of trying to impress them; it's almost as if he's trying to do the exact opposite. For example, notice to how he responds to the attack against him. At first, like Hoopla, he dismisses it with sarcasm and doesn't take Fate seriously at all. But unlike Hoopla, once the fuel of the wagon burns and he realzies the attack WAS serious, he still doesn't address it seriously. All he does is go "Welp, I have no idea why ABR/Nacho/Fate are voting me. Oh well." If you're still not convinced, look at his vote. He random votes, fine. Then he makes that sarcastic vote on Hoopla... and keeps it there. Even after Nobody Special "becomes probably scum", even though he believes that "Fate usually has a plan". No, the vote stays on Hoopla.

Next, there's the whole probably situation. I actually disagree with ABR that it's the definiteness of it so early that makes it scummy; it's how he defended it that makes it scummy. He says:

What's with the probably hate?

Only the scumbags have reads of guaranteed certainty.

If I ran around going "andrew94 is 100% town, hoopla is definitely scum" it suggests the strongest of reads.

Bolded is mine.

Hoopla is scum with Andrius.

Yet no mention of scumbaggery. In Quirkytown, I declared plenty of people definite town and definite scum and I flipped town. Interestingly enough, Andrius didn't attack me once about it. When Andrius and I hydra'd together (as town), he had no problem calling the person who ended up being a mason "definite scum". In other words, Andrius knew that the bolded was a bunch of crap because he played declaring quick reads, he had played with people with that playstyle before, and he is playing with someone with that playstyle. The only possible motive I could see for Andrius to say something like that is if he was just trying to make some sort of defence for himself, which I can see him doing as lazy scum.

As for Empking, well, he hasn't done much, but it'd be pretty good play if he was scum. Calling the most vocal person pushing your lynch town, along with the person promising to provide a case on your predecessor, then jumping on the second largest bandwagon seems like a pretty good way to stay alive.

[Empking]

It was equally as big.

[Empking]

That disproves your point, right?

All: What do people think of NS's kinda desperate jump on Me? It strikes me as awful but I've got a scum read on both players (Ns and PN) so I'm not sure if I'm biased.)

[Nobody Special]

....desperate??

[Empking]

....desperate??

To protect PN.

[Fate]

You're my herooooo nachooooo

/swoon

[Nobody Special]

....desperate??

To protect PN.

Oh. My. GOD.

You CANNOT be serious.

[Elmo]

For someone going V/LA for a single day, your participation in this game is quite intriguing Empking.

I'd actually have to agree with Empking, this is pretty scummy. Scratch what I said about the park wagon being dubious. Park, why specifically would scum post

more

in this situation? Why would Empking lie about going on V/LA? You've vaguely implied he's suspicious without giving any reason or actually trying to attack him. Why's that?

I didn't like Andrius much, I'm quite liking Empking's contribution at this point. I'm still unhappy with letting NS pass by unhindered. If Empking and Nobody Special continue their respective posting trends, I might hop wagons.

@Elmo: I honestly thougt I had talked about Andrius. Turns out I haven't. Lemme ISO him and get back to you.

I've still had absolutely no response. You've just dropped your vote on Andrius/Empking without any kind of justification and left it there, with a hefty dose of submarining thrown in.

You CANNOT be serious.

Could you actually explain why he's wrong?

[Nobody Special]

Very simple. I'm town and therefore have no reason to "protect" park. It's the height of absurdity to even suggest. Besides, I was talking about Andrius being scummy before Empking came in. Empking hasn't changed my perception. I'm out of time today, but I'll try to get some detailed reasons up tomorrow or (more likely) Monday.

[Fate]

POWER OUTAGE AT WORKKK

[Elmo]

Very simple. I'm town and therefore have no reason to "protect" park. It's the height of absurdity to even suggest.

If you're actually town, I suggest you start saying things that make me want to lynch you

less

. Suggesting that you're scum for a given reason in a game where the point is to find the scum is a long way from absurd; deflecting accusations instead of answering them, regardless of their apparent merit, is scummy.

Besides, I was talking about Andrius being scummy before Empking came in. Empking hasn't changed my perception.

I don't think this constitutes a defence; nothing of that necessarily contradicts his position.

[Hoopla]

Humm, this game has really fizzled out, almost coming to a stop. I think it's some of my fault - I haven't really got overly involved just yet, and going back rereading the thread has been taxing as my motivation drops off very quickly. I think other players might be feeling this way too, so I want to ask some questions to maybe start a dialogue with some people, which I'm hopeful could spark some interest in the game for me, and maybe others;

ABR; I don't understand your reason for voting for me, can you explain your gut read in any more depth than you've given us so far?

Empking, what's the Asterix hovering over your town read on flinter?

Elmo, DDD (and whoever else) - why do you think Andrius lurking/flaking is a scumtell? I have small amounts of knowledge of him, but this wasn't too dissimilar to a town game he played recently.

Newbie2010, I've liked your activity and your commentary so far. I know you think parknourie is scummy, but do you have any town reads at the moment?

Fate, this is probably the one time where your aggressive spamming to rile up players would be a good thing - we need more activity in here, and I kind of expected you and to a lesser extent, ABR to be more vocal and influential. Has Empking looked town or scummy to you since his introduction? I assume he hasn't done enough to outweigh Andrius' play.

Nobody Special, why was Empking dropping a town/scum list in his first post as replacement suspicious or even noteworthy from your perspective?