Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[nocase]

katsuki is town.

er, wait, i must wagoning someone here.

[Kublai Khan]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 11

"Gilman, may I remind you that I have friends who have absolutely no regard for the sanctity of human life? I pick up the phone, I have your head in a bag on my desk tomorrow morning."

- David Poole (Dennis Leary), Operation Dumbo Drop (1995)

Chevre

- 5 - Seraphim, Jerbs, Katsuki, Xalxe, werewolf555

Gorrad

- 4 - SpyreX, DrippingGoofball, RedCoyote, nocase

werewolf555

- 2 - Antihero, Chevre

curiouskarmadog

- 1 - farside22

Jerbs

- 1 - Dutch one

Antihero

- 1 - iamausername

nocase

- 1 - Gorrad

Dutch one

- 1 - curiouskarmadog

farside22

- 1 - Cyberbob

SpyreX

- 1 - Korlash

Katsuki

- 1 - Dutch one

Players not voting: Runner, Kmd4390, inHimshallibe

Prodding

:
- Katsuki (seeking replacement -- PokerFace will probably take over this slot when he gets back from V/LA (1/31))
- Runner
- iamausername (has 24 hours to post in-thread)

[iamausername]

Oh hey I forgot to mention that I was going to be away for a couple of days. Well that's done now.

curiouskarmadog - 1 - farside22
Jerbs - 1 - Dutch one
Antihero - 1 - iamausername
nocase - 1 - Gorrad
Dutch one - 1 - curiouskarmadog
farside22 - 1 - Cyberbob
SpyreX - 1 - Korlash
Katsuki - 1 - Dutch one

Players not voting: Runner, Kmd4390, inHimshallibe

This is bad. All of these people should probably pick one of Chevre and Gorrad, or do a much better job of pushing their current vote, realise that still nobody cares, and then pick one of Chevre and Gorrad.

Cyberbob already did a pretty good job of explaining why Antihero is scummy, and I would like to redirect attention to that, read it here. But because that was a long post, I feel like the most salient point may have been missed by a lot of people:

Voting without giving a good reason? Sounds like a poofling to me.

This after he has voted Korlash, giving the reason of "It's fun to watch scum fail", and then Seraphim, giving the reason of "Read post 69; it's a doozy". This ably demonstrates that these two votes were not Antihero voting without reasons because he understands that this is a useful town approach, they were Antihero voting without reasons because he is trying to fit in with the cool kids.

Antihero didn't address this point in the slightest when Cyberbob brought it up, either.

Here are some reasons why I would also be more than happy to vote Xalxe:

Deadline added to OP (5 weeks).

Also, Xalxe PMed me that he will be V/LA until 1/23 (Sunday).

But since I have no school today, I'm here for a bit.

So, thoughts on the 4 pages so far:

nocase and InHim: WTF? Don't fakeclaim post restrictions. Had I been around, I'd have voted nocase instantly. I still haven't really seen reasoning behind the fakeclaims.
DGB: DEAR GOD NOT AGAIN--er, hey there, how you doin?
Korlash: Nice to see you again. I really mean that I knew you existed and then disappeared, so hi.
Dutch one: I really, for your sake, hope you can keep up with this shit. It gets crazy fast.
Chevre: is there anywhere better your vote could be right now?
SpyreX: could you explain the Gorrad vote?

P-EDIT: DGB, I'm camping 2 hours away, hence v/la.

"Had I been around I'd have voted nocase instantly" - What was stopping him from voting nocase here? He says himself that he hasn't seen any reason for nocase/inHim's fake PRs, so if they would have earned a vote when they were made, why don't they earn a vote now?

Also, he asks Chevre if there's anywhere better he could put his vote, but Xalxe isn't using his vote at all, so maybe he should remove the plank of wood from his own eye.

In Post #294, Xalxe makes this comment:

I would like explanations on their votes from the following players:

-Katsuki
-werewolf555
-iamausername
-curiouskarmadog

Failure to answer will result in bonus scumpoints. Answering for them will result in scumpoints for both.

If there are any questions I missed, or any important points that need to be brought to my attention, speak now.

I have pointedly failed to justify my vote on Antihero before now, and also psychically influenced Cyberbob to answer for me. Xalxe has failed to follow up on any of this in any way. This is fake scumhunting.

Post #313: I do not believe this is a town response to nocase's post. It's a classic tell of a liar; an innocent party will say "you're wrong" or "that's ridiculous" or "fuck you", attacking the accusation itself, wheras a guilty party will say "you can't prove it" or "how can you be so sure?", attacking the

evidence

of the accusation. Xalxe's post here falls pretty squarely in the latter camp.

After that, his posts devolve into this:

I believe everyone on Seraphim and Jerbs should remove their votes and join us in lynching chevre.

Wait, why the Seraphim switch?

I'm still content with chevre.

chevre.

Seriously.

Well, for now, just lynch chevre IMHO, mmkay?

Less idle chitchat, more chevre lynching.

Also, vote chevre jerbs and antihero (if you're not already)

I have an idea. Let's lynch chevre!

FTFY

If he's that vociferous about this lynch, he must have a super amazing case for it, right?

farside22, yes, I honestly now do think my vote could be relocated. I just keep forgetting to do so, but I will not forget this time.

Unvote. Vote: Jerbs

Bullshit. Bullshit bullshit bullshit. Bullshit.

I like this wagon. Let’s see if it survives until page 12.

Yeah, no, that's it. That's Xalxe's entire case.

---

Unvote

VOTE: Xalxe

I like this one better, actually.

p.s. as per above, I'll be picking Gorrad when this post inevitably fails to attract anyone to a Xalxe/Antihero lynch, because Chevre is obvtown.

[Xalxe]

iaun, what is it you want from me? Truly. I've said before that I agree with the cases that have been presented, and where necessary, I've commented on new information, which chevre has mostly failed to present.

I firmly believe that not everybody needs to provide a full PBPA on everyone they vote for. In some cases, it's all been said already. This is one of those times.

However, I now think that you are town due to your attitude that one of Gorrad or chevre is our lynch, and everyone else should get their votes off them. That's something I'm rather fond of insisting as town.

[farside22]

iamusername: I'm happy voting for sera or ckd. If push came to shove I would vote Gorrad over Cherve to insure a lynch.
I read some of Gorrad's previous games to this and I'm split on whether he is town or scum in this game based on meta.
Reading this game there is the bit of fluff, and all he does is vote for those following BW, which I find a weak tell and if your going to do it don't ignore everyone that does do it.
A part of me wonders if he is avoiding talking about those that have already been talked about or vote on anyone that is already being voted for so he can ignore his own scum tell of following BW's.

[werewolf555]

i get the feeling that werewolf555 could be scum playing a lazy game and hiding behind a veneer of lololol or whatever, but more data would be really nice.

I generally always play like this.

[werewolf555]

nocase-approved lynches, revised, ordered from best to worst:

runner
gorrad
xalxe
werewolf555
katsuki
seraphim
curiouskarmadog
korlash
kmd4390

hmm
why is your vote on gorrad, your second highest lynch?
Generally, a townie would try and get the #1 most scummy instead of going for the easier lynch.

[werewolf555]

looking at nocases rebuttal of gorrads attack, it looks really bad from gorrads point of view. Personally, I think cherve doesn't seem as scummy with her giant wall.
VOTE: Gorrad

[Dutch one]

oh, I just saw she is going to be replaced, so then it doesn't really matter anymore.

UNVOTE

[inHimshallibe]

Unbelievabusy.

vote: Gorrad

[nocase]

Generally, a townie would try and get the #1 most scummy instead of going for the easier lynch.

gorrad was (and continues to be) the more popular wagon.

looking at nocases rebuttal of gorrads attack, it looks really bad from gorrads point of view.

could you elaborate? what does "bad" mean?

[Jerbs]

V/LA
Leaving on a holiday

Not posting stuff,
for some time,
don't convict me of a crime.

I won't be here till Monday night,
so please reread to shed some light,
on who or what the scum could be,
to us town they're enemies

V/LA till monday

[Korlash]

From the very beginning the 'case' was there. I -really- didn't think it was something that needed to be laid out point by point. And the early posts before I had to get all WORDS pretty clearly show what I was talking about.

... The case was never there, the case still isn't there, and even when you posted your "How many words is it johnny? It's... It's over 9000! What! 9000?" post, it still wasn't there. the only thing that was there was gorrad not posting content. (And if you want a more personal tie in, trying to look like posting content and not actually posting content. which, correct me if I'm wrong I don't actually remember you using) Oh right, not posting content during the first three pages of the game... you know, the time we all have fun and post worthless crap. Wow you mean Gorrad is scum for that? Then that makes me and dgb and nocase and antihero and CKD and inhim and... *goes on for a while* and dgb again, scum as well! So anyone who had any fun in the RVS phase is scum? The only person that would make town is you... *gasp* I bet I know which side is going to lose! *sarcastic gasp* Heck you didn't even get a second point until page 8 with the "he keeps claiming scum" thing, which oddly enough I could show applies to me 'almost' as strongly as gorrad...

And, yes, I AM looking ahead not to make Gorrad scum 'with other people' but to show my thought process when gorrad flips scum. Because spearheading a lynch like this if I am right is a death warrant. Which is fine.

Really? "Knowing" gorrad is scum on page three and then focusing 'almost' entirely for the rest of the game, clearly ignoring people at time due to your blinding tunnelvision, culminating in a case full of crap would "mean your death" when he flips? Really? Being able to tell someone is scum on page two and twist everything he does from that point on into your definition of scum endangers your life? really? No way man... no way...

Sorry for the sarcasm... But it's true. sadly I don't think you're scum for it, I just think you're being stupid. Stop crossing your fingers hoping you "called scum on page 3" and see your case for the pile of CKD excrement it is.

And, some of the 'others' I am talking about should be clear to at least a few people (and crystal clear with the 'flips' I'm talking about) but, again, I am not trying to catch ALL the chickens right now just Gorrad related ones.

A few people? Like you're scum partners? ha ha, Sorry I couldn't resist... So a big point on Gorrad is he doesn't post anything worthwhile, and you're intentionally not posting stuff worthwhile*. (It's not actually worthwhile, but you seem to think it is...) How exactly is it different when you do it?

And, yes, I have spent a lot of energy on this and, frankly, the fact it took a bad wagon all the way to claim for anyone BUT GORRAD HIMSELF to pay attention to it sure doesn't spark that lovin' feelin of doing it again.

... so you're case on gorrad was second to that of a bad wagon... Simple things are true, so your case on Gorrad must there for be worse then bad...

And, CKD is cart before the horse to a degree. Lynchable on his own? Sure (60/40). A much, much better lynch after a Gorrad scum flip? Hot damn yes (80/20).

And yet not lynchable on his own enough to merit a mention when asked... What's your percentage on Xalxe? Also CKD is clearly more a donkey then a horse... and now that excrement comment doesn't sound so insulting does it? ha ha, I had a plan for that all along...

[Xalxe]

@ Mod: please also prod Seraphim

[Seraphim]

Haha too late, shameless prod dodge.

I was at a college visit these last few days, I expect to catch up later tomorrow.

[Xalxe]

*grumble*

[Gorrad]

Nocase's Iso:
0-2: Claims to have a PR, runs with it. I think his PR is not being able to use caps.

reaction test, and wrong.

A reaction test that accomplished nothing but a false start and confusion. Not scummy, but worthless. Unless, of course, you can point out things that came from it?

3-4: RVS. To those who claim there wasn't an RVS, you're full of it.

that vote was not random; chevre and ckd tickled my gut. thanks for the attempt at trivialization, though; i really dig it.

Ah, so you couldn't even bother to post 'gut' as a reason for those. You just jumped on them without a word.

5: More PR bull

more reaction-testing pr bull.

Again, worthless. Did anything come of it?

6: Fluff

nope. it references the nuts reactions to my post restriction claim.

It did not contribute, it had no point, and I doubt even you can frame it as an ATTEMPT to contribute. It doesn't matter what it references, it's fluff.

7-8: Jumps on the gut-Gorrad wagon.

cyberbob and i both found your post scummy. i was the first to vote but good try.

Again, a wagon isn't defined by who votes, it's by the feel of the thing. CB started the movement and you joined it.

9. Fluff

nope. post 50 (yours) was loaded with nauseating rhetoric.

And how does 'lol rhetoric' (your exact phrase) say that? It doesn't invoke any reactions. It doesn't attack me, it doesn't do anything. You stand on the sidelines and make a useless comment.

10. Admits PR was bull

"admits" characterizes it as reluctant or sheepish. it wasn't and i don't know how you could really think it was. i wasn't going to prolong the test indefinitely.

Ok, confesses. States even. Semantics. It was pointless bull.

(Note: To those counting who are saying I had too much fluff, he's has 2/11 posts at this point that actually contribute)
11. "Everyone jump on the gut wagon"

yup. scummy how?

Because you're telling everyone to jump on a wagon that, by definition, has NO BASIS in fact. That's what makes it gut. You're relying on feeling rather than scumtells or other evidence.

12. Jumps to a gut wagon on Runner, asks for clarification regarding "Dutch, are you scum?" post.

no one was voting runner at the time but thanks for once again falsely stating that my vote was not the first on a given player.

I'll admit, that one's my bad. Still, gut. BAD.

13. Defends against SpyreX

are you trying to make a point?

It's always been my belief that scum have more to gain by defending than town. Scum's goal is to stay alive. Town's goal is to lynch scum. Town make logical decisions based on reasoning, even if their reasoning isn't stated (See:DGB) while scum have no reasoning, and have posts that either defend themselves or are votes based on 'gut'.

14. Votes Chevre for Indecisiveness (a fair charge)

aw, thanks for the seal of approval. it means a lot to me.

Sarcasm. That's original!

15. Gut read (again) on Xalxe

again, iioa.

As stated above, gut reads as pretty much your only tell is crazy scummy.

16-17. Immediately jumps to Xalxe as soon as Chevre and Farside start to talk about him.

no, i jumped to xalxe because my read on chevre changed.

Which you state where? I call BS.

18. Asks why Seraphim went through the trouble of color-coordinating Chevre's WoT, then FoS's CKD (following my calling CKD out on his statement)

more iioa. make a goddamn point. there's nothing to indicate that my reestablished suspicion of ckd was strictly bandwagoning on your suspicion of him.

You deny it then? Once more, BS. Give me proof ANYWHERE in your posts of where you expressed suspicion of CKD so that you would fos him at this point. No, it was strictly bandwagoning off me.

19. Explains his vote on Xalxe. Good reasoning. First post of his I like.

thanks! all i ever wanted was to please you!

Once more, awesome sarcasm.

20. Fluff

no. pushing to see how he would respond.

You and your pointless posts that you push as response-fishing. Once more, unless it accomplishes something, it's fluff. You can't just retcon and some that some pointless thing you said was reaction-fishing. Would you believe me if I said my posts at Korlash were reaction fishing? I has as much evidence that they were as you have that these are.

21. Confirms Xalxe-hate.

hey, look, another instance of FAILURE TO MAKE A POINT. i wasn't confirming xalxe-hate; i was confirming the uniqueness of xalxe's scummy attributes.

It's a PBPA. I can't find something scummy in every post you make, though you make it pretty easy for me.

22. List of people he'd vote for. List is 8 people long, 3 of which he hasn't mentioned in any prior posts.

you caught me.

Damn skippy I did.

23. Presses Xalxe lightly.

no, actually, this post is an instance of what we english speakers refer to as ASKING A QUESTION HEHEHAHAHA.

Oooooookaaaaay what's with the laugh? Anyhow. You're pressing him lightly for information by asking him an easy question. There. Better?

24. Agrees with DGB that Farside's reaction is weird, but goes on to say that it IS scummy, whereas DGB said it was not from a scum perspective. Also does so two pages after DGB's comment.

cute. another non-point.

My point is that you misrepped DGB two pages after the statement. The main thing I want to know is why you did so so late?

25. Confirms his Gorrad-hate is gut based, then cops out on explanation by just citing SpyreX

i voiced suspicion of you in the nascency of this game. the hunch stuck and i liked spyrex's case. but you're right. i'll never DARE to appreciate another player's theory again.

That's not the point. The point is you made NO CASE of your own. Pun not intended.

26. And on that note, as soon as I call him out, he votes me! (on gut + SpyreX's case)

the vote immediately followed chevre's wall. the wagon on chevre and chevre's overwhelming towniness were the direct cause of my vote.

So....you unvoted Xalxe...and voted me...because Chevre sounded town? The heck?

27. Tells chevre to vote me "if you value your life". AKA "Hey, want to not get lynched? Move the wagon to this guy."

yes, that's exactly what i was saying. there's nothing remotely anti-town about urging a fellow townie to vote a player who's actually suspicious in order to stay alive.

You were using basically bargaining with Chevre's life to get her to do what you wanted. I would call that pretty bleedin' anti-town.

28. See 25

see 25.

See 25.

29. Votes CKD as he is now "up for grabs". Note that his only reason to suspect at this point that he's stated is back in 18. Again, quick wagoning.

my instinctual suspicion of him accumulated over several of his posts, although it did taper off a little later on.

And you stated this where? This is why you say things. Because otherwise, when you claim you felt them later, you have no evidence to back you up.

30. Says he has "a number of town reads and no terribly strong scum reads" despite the 8-long list earlier of those he'd lynch.

if i had strong scum reads then my list of ideal lynches would be considerably shorter.

So you'd lynch someone without a strong scum read on them? That is what we would call BAD.

31. Addresses things not meant at him, Explains the hop off of me as him thinking I had some town cred (as opposed to Oooh, new wagon- Shiny!). Revotes me.

you seemed to be directing all three at me, but if you'll look again you'll see i was unsure of whether or not you actually were. i revoted you due to a reread of your iso. and to the fact that your recent contributions were garbage.

Which once more, you obviously stated clearly at the time. Why in the nine rings should I believe a thing you are claiming? You revoted me as soon as you thought I was attacking you.

32. Fluff

bullshit, gorrad. you failed to rebut my defenses and i called you out on it. jesus christ.

No, you defended against things that weren't meant towards you. We were not debating at the time.

33. Actually content, isos Runner, Katsuki, IAAU, and werewolf. Suspicion on all but IIAU.

are you trying to insinuate that expressing reasoned suspicion of three players in a large normal is scummy, or are you just posting iioa again?

IIOA. As said, it's a PBPA. That means I put in every post.

34. Lynch list is up to 9.

yup.

One worse than 8.

35. Make that 10. (nearly half the town)

oh, my bad, i don't generate fifteen town reads on day one. i must be scum.

So you're saying that anyone on whom you don't have a town read is a lynchable target? That's not scummy, that's just horrible play!

36-37. Asks for Clarification from DGB. That's reasonable.

do i get a sticker?

Yes. It's a scratch and sniff I stuck to the bottom of the pool.

38. fluff

i really have to wonder whether or not you actually comprehend the words that enter your field of vision. i asked dgb a question about jerbs and in her response she (1) failed to answer and (2) deflected onto another player. i called her out on it. but you're right, of course! how could i not have realized it all along? calling someone out for deflecting is an irrefutable scum tell and i should be lynched for it. WAHOO.

That's not 'calling someone out'. That is, once more, making a smarmy remark from the sidelines to which no one will react and calling it content.

And this is why I don't make isos. Because they always result in gorram WoT wars ><

[DrippingGoofball]

TP;DR

"too psychedelic; didn't read"

[farside22]

TP;DR

"too psychedelic; didn't read"

'

too late. Just a couple of things I want to ask Gorrad on his points here:


10.

Admits PR was bulf

"admits" characterizes it as reluctant or sheepish. it wasn't and i don't know how you could really think it was. i wasn't going to prolong the test indefinitely.

Ok, confesses. States even. Semantics. It was pointless bull.

Why was this pointless when a couple of people were still talking about it?

11. "Everyone jump on the gut wagon"

yup. scummy how?

Because you're telling everyone to jump on a wagon that, by definition, has NO BASIS in fact. That's what makes it gut. You're relying on feeling rather than scumtells or other evidence.

I don't see how this is scummy and the explanation from Gorrad is not real clear.
People jump on the wagon they would be scummy by your own scum hunting no? So why again is telling people to jump on a BW scummy if it can be used to see who reacts?

[RedCoyote]

I really agree with nocase's post 525.

---

Oh, so now we're playing that game. Just pretend I don't exist, right?

You don't see why Chevre was such a big wagon? You had her on your OK lynch list earlier. Or did you forget about that?

Did you ask me a question?

No, I didn't forget about that. That was before she was blindsided with this silly "you didn't react properly to DGB's trick!" move which I thought was pretty shady. Even without that, I still see other people who are acting, in my opinion, less town than Chevre is. It stands to reason then that I wouldn't see how her wagon could grow larger than any of those people.

---

To summarize: The vast majority of Nocase's play has been defensive/gut-read bandwagoning. He's hiding behind short, non-offensive posts while leaving his options WIDE open for who he could vote for later on. His short bits of scumhunting could be easily faked, and he has contributed nothing to this game other than a false start.

Although I applaud you for not attempting to place every one of nocase's posts in a negative light (far too many players do this when they're trying to convince others how scummy someone is), I feel a little disconnected from the greater point you're making here.

You say nocase is overly defensive. Okay, in what way? I don't recall there being any big move against nocase with the exception of his post restriction thing. What's wrong with short posts? How are they non-offensive? I've seen him willing to stir the pot a little bit this game. I don't exactly see how he's leaving his options open either. I don't recall him backing off of any big statements or anything. Am I missing something?

---

I'm playing in another Mafia game (square enix mafia IV), and in that game, Katsuke recently joined as a replacement. She is quite active there, but at the same time she says she is a bit inactive at this Mafia because she is so incredibly busy. If you were really that busy, then you wouldn't join another game as a replacement.

The last time I used this argument against Kat, I was scum, Dutch. Are you?

[Cyberbob]

Welp, it's been a whirlwind couple of days IRL here. Just letting everyone know I'm still alive, don't have time to post now but I'll be back on later tonight when I get home

[nocase]

Nocase's Iso:
0-2: Claims to have a PR, runs with it. I think his PR is not being able to use caps.

reaction test, and wrong.

A reaction test that accomplished nothing but a false start and confusion. Not scummy, but worthless. Unless, of course, you can point out things that came from it?

3-4: RVS. To those who claim there wasn't an RVS, you're full of it.

that vote was not random; chevre and ckd tickled my gut. thanks for the attempt at trivialization, though; i really dig it.

Ah, so you couldn't even bother to post 'gut' as a reason for those. You just jumped on them without a word.

5: More PR bull

more reaction-testing pr bull.

Again, worthless. Did anything come of it?

6: Fluff

nope. it references the nuts reactions to my post restriction claim.

It did not contribute, it had no point, and I doubt even you can frame it as an ATTEMPT to contribute. It doesn't matter what it references, it's fluff.

7-8: Jumps on the gut-Gorrad wagon.

cyberbob and i both found your post scummy. i was the first to vote but good try.

Again, a wagon isn't defined by who votes, it's by the feel of the thing. CB started the movement and you joined it.

9. Fluff

nope. post 50 (yours) was loaded with nauseating rhetoric.

And how does 'lol rhetoric' (your exact phrase) say that? It doesn't invoke any reactions. It doesn't attack me, it doesn't do anything. You stand on the sidelines and make a useless comment.

10. Admits PR was bull

"admits" characterizes it as reluctant or sheepish. it wasn't and i don't know how you could really think it was. i wasn't going to prolong the test indefinitely.

Ok, confesses. States even. Semantics. It was pointless bull.

(Note: To those counting who are saying I had too much fluff, he's has 2/11 posts at this point that actually contribute)
11. "Everyone jump on the gut wagon"

yup. scummy how?

Because you're telling everyone to jump on a wagon that, by definition, has NO BASIS in fact. That's what makes it gut. You're relying on feeling rather than scumtells or other evidence.

12. Jumps to a gut wagon on Runner, asks for clarification regarding "Dutch, are you scum?" post.

no one was voting runner at the time but thanks for once again falsely stating that my vote was not the first on a given player.

I'll admit, that one's my bad. Still, gut. BAD.

13. Defends against SpyreX

are you trying to make a point?

It's always been my belief that scum have more to gain by defending than town. Scum's goal is to stay alive. Town's goal is to lynch scum. Town make logical decisions based on reasoning, even if their reasoning isn't stated (See:DGB) while scum have no reasoning, and have posts that either defend themselves or are votes based on 'gut'.

14. Votes Chevre for Indecisiveness (a fair charge)

aw, thanks for the seal of approval. it means a lot to me.

Sarcasm. That's original!

15. Gut read (again) on Xalxe

again, iioa.

As stated above, gut reads as pretty much your only tell is crazy scummy.

16-17. Immediately jumps to Xalxe as soon as Chevre and Farside start to talk about him.

no, i jumped to xalxe because my read on chevre changed.

Which you state where? I call BS.

18. Asks why Seraphim went through the trouble of color-coordinating Chevre's WoT, then FoS's CKD (following my calling CKD out on his statement)

more iioa. make a goddamn point. there's nothing to indicate that my reestablished suspicion of ckd was strictly bandwagoning on your suspicion of him.

You deny it then? Once more, BS. Give me proof ANYWHERE in your posts of where you expressed suspicion of CKD so that you would fos him at this point. No, it was strictly bandwagoning off me.

19. Explains his vote on Xalxe. Good reasoning. First post of his I like.

thanks! all i ever wanted was to please you!

Once more, awesome sarcasm.

20. Fluff

no. pushing to see how he would respond.

You and your pointless posts that you push as response-fishing. Once more, unless it accomplishes something, it's fluff. You can't just retcon and some that some pointless thing you said was reaction-fishing. Would you believe me if I said my posts at Korlash were reaction fishing? I has as much evidence that they were as you have that these are.

21. Confirms Xalxe-hate.

hey, look, another instance of FAILURE TO MAKE A POINT. i wasn't confirming xalxe-hate; i was confirming the uniqueness of xalxe's scummy attributes.

It's a PBPA. I can't find something scummy in every post you make, though you make it pretty easy for me.

22. List of people he'd vote for. List is 8 people long, 3 of which he hasn't mentioned in any prior posts.

you caught me.

Damn skippy I did.

23. Presses Xalxe lightly.

no, actually, this post is an instance of what we english speakers refer to as ASKING A QUESTION HEHEHAHAHA.

Oooooookaaaaay what's with the laugh? Anyhow. You're pressing him lightly for information by asking him an easy question. There. Better?

24. Agrees with DGB that Farside's reaction is weird, but goes on to say that it IS scummy, whereas DGB said it was not from a scum perspective. Also does so two pages after DGB's comment.

cute. another non-point.

My point is that you misrepped DGB two pages after the statement. The main thing I want to know is why you did so so late?

25. Confirms his Gorrad-hate is gut based, then cops out on explanation by just citing SpyreX

i voiced suspicion of you in the nascency of this game. the hunch stuck and i liked spyrex's case. but you're right. i'll never DARE to appreciate another player's theory again.

That's not the point. The point is you made NO CASE of your own. Pun not intended.

26. And on that note, as soon as I call him out, he votes me! (on gut + SpyreX's case)

the vote immediately followed chevre's wall. the wagon on chevre and chevre's overwhelming towniness were the direct cause of my vote.

So....you unvoted Xalxe...and voted me...because Chevre sounded town? The heck?

27. Tells chevre to vote me "if you value your life". AKA "Hey, want to not get lynched? Move the wagon to this guy."

yes, that's exactly what i was saying. there's nothing remotely anti-town about urging a fellow townie to vote a player who's actually suspicious in order to stay alive.

You were using basically bargaining with Chevre's life to get her to do what you wanted. I would call that pretty bleedin' anti-town.

28. See 25

see 25.

See 25.

29. Votes CKD as he is now "up for grabs". Note that his only reason to suspect at this point that he's stated is back in 18. Again, quick wagoning.

my instinctual suspicion of him accumulated over several of his posts, although it did taper off a little later on.

And you stated this where? This is why you say things. Because otherwise, when you claim you felt them later, you have no evidence to back you up.

30. Says he has "a number of town reads and no terribly strong scum reads" despite the 8-long list earlier of those he'd lynch.

if i had strong scum reads then my list of ideal lynches would be considerably shorter.

So you'd lynch someone without a strong scum read on them? That is what we would call BAD.

31. Addresses things not meant at him, Explains the hop off of me as him thinking I had some town cred (as opposed to Oooh, new wagon- Shiny!). Revotes me.

you seemed to be directing all three at me, but if you'll look again you'll see i was unsure of whether or not you actually were. i revoted you due to a reread of your iso. and to the fact that your recent contributions were garbage.

Which once more, you obviously stated clearly at the time. Why in the nine rings should I believe a thing you are claiming? You revoted me as soon as you thought I was attacking you.

32. Fluff

bullshit, gorrad. you failed to rebut my defenses and i called you out on it. jesus christ.

No, you defended against things that weren't meant towards you. We were not debating at the time.

33. Actually content, isos Runner, Katsuki, IAAU, and werewolf. Suspicion on all but IIAU.

are you trying to insinuate that expressing reasoned suspicion of three players in a large normal is scummy, or are you just posting iioa again?

IIOA. As said, it's a PBPA. That means I put in every post.

34. Lynch list is up to 9.

yup.

One worse than 8.

35. Make that 10. (nearly half the town)

oh, my bad, i don't generate fifteen town reads on day one. i must be scum.

So you're saying that anyone on whom you don't have a town read is a lynchable target? That's not scummy, that's just horrible play!

36-37. Asks for Clarification from DGB. That's reasonable.

do i get a sticker?

Yes. It's a scratch and sniff I stuck to the bottom of the pool.

38. fluff

i really have to wonder whether or not you actually comprehend the words that enter your field of vision. i asked dgb a question about jerbs and in her response she (1) failed to answer and (2) deflected onto another player. i called her out on it. but you're right, of course! how could i not have realized it all along? calling someone out for deflecting is an irrefutable scum tell and i should be lynched for it. WAHOO.

That's not 'calling someone out'. That is, once more, making a smarmy remark from the sidelines to which no one will react and calling it content.

And this is why I don't make isos. Because they always result in gorram WoT wars ><

i win.

[nocase]

actually, i'll bite. like so many other godforsaken players on this site you obviously don't get how intuition functions. rather than pompously lecture you about it i'll just pompously tell you to google "gary klein." your isolation of "feeling" from "evidence" is just plain wrong.

the rest of what you say utterly fails to do, um, anything, so i'ma let it fester.

[Dutch one]

The last time I used this argument against Kat, I was scum, Dutch. Are you?

no I'm not scum. And you said you used this argument in an earlier game already against her? Does that mean she always act like this?

[Kmd4390]

Ketchup time.

----------------

I don't like nocase's first post. Stating the post restriction, but no vote or anything. Just focusing on his own role. Cyber's first reaction is probably null, but first instinct gives me bad vibes. However, the vote coming after Antihero's catch and Spy's vote worries me. Antihero's reaction makes sense as town realizing that post restrictions shouldn't exist. Spy is probably scum for laying a vote. I think townSpy would sit back and think, "wait a minute. What is this guy doing?" before just laying the vote. The possibility that I'm wrong is if Spy is voting for reactions/pressure. Slight town read on Korlash's reaction. Sera makes good points on CKD.

Nocase's next few posts kind of frustrate/annoy me. Still, Spy's attacks are pretty scummy. If DGB and Spy are both scum, we might be screwed. I disagree with most of Inhim's take on the early game. Not sure if that means Inhim is scum or if we just have differing views. Based on Post 39 by nocase, I think he made up his "restriction" and is amused because Inhim chose to follow suit. I wanna say town on nocase and scum on Inhim. I don't get Antihero's jump on Korlash at all. Korlash's reaction isn't any better though.

Dutch is definitely town.

-------------------

Gorrad - 5 - nocase, inHimshallibe, Gorrad, SpyreX, Dutch one

Gorrad is town.

-----------------

Chevre gives off "over explaining" vibes. Scummy. I hope Iam started explaining things more after page 3. When you give back to back posts about someone being scummy without saying anything about it, you start looking bad. CKD's post directed at Dutch at the top of Page 4 looks like a fluffy post with sprinkles in the shape of newbframing. Antihero started out so great, but is sliding downhill. I take back the bad vibe thing about Cyberbob because of post 96. Xalxe, however, looks worse with every post. DGB's response to Dutch's points looks like the ScumDGB we all know and love. All we need is for her to start OMGUSing her accusers and give away her buddies. (lol, she OMGUS'd Chevre a little later). Runner is town.

Dutch, I have to ask. Why was the Gorrad vote "out of date"? Did you no longer believe in your reasons for voting him? What convinced you of his innocence?

-------------------

Interesting because it goes against my reads, but Inhim's Post 123 shows a strong Cyber-Sera connection, which would make Korlash and Inhim town. Dunno what to think of Jerbs. He looks newbish, but his join date says otherwise. I just realized that DGB's play is pretty much mirroring Sly Cooper Mafia, where she replaced in as a scumbuddy of mine. Chevre is scummy too, so bussing maybe? Kats is under-the-radar-sheep-scum.

--------------------

Damn, not even 4am and I'm starting to fall asleep. I think it's the fact that I know I have a night shift followed by a morning coming up this weekend, then have to be up before 5am the next day for my New Jersey trip. Oh well. Here's my take on the first 7 pages. More as soon as possible. I see the most recent vote count and definitely would prefer to lynch Chevre over Gorrad.

That being said, you guys are lucky I'm here because I don't think DGBscum and Spyscum would be lynched otherwise.

Vote DGB