1119: The Might of Mordor: Game Over

[Andrius]

Day One, Lynch-Count Two

gandalf5166 (2): quadz08, SpyreX
singersigner (2): VasudeVa, AlmasterGM
AlmasterGM (2): Plum, gandalf5166
Edge (1): Mariyta
Mariyta (1): Katy
Katy (1): esuriospiritus
Plum (1): Edge

Not Voting (2): Sevei, singersigner

Day One, Imbue-Count Two

quadz08 (2): quadz08, singersigner
SpyreX (2): Edge, gandalf5166
esuriospiritus (1): esuriospiritus
Edge (1): Plum

Not Voting (6): Katy, SpyreX, VasudeVa, AlmasterGM, Mariyta, Sevei

Notices

With 12 alive it takes 7 to Lynch and/or Imbue.
Deadline is set at Thursday, February 10th, at 1:00pm PST.

[Mariyta]

UNVOTE: Edge, VOTE: Plum
Sheeping Edge happily. I also think several of her lines of questioning are reaching, at best.

[Katy]

My vote is still on Katy because her reason for voting Mariyta is entirely too nebulous for my tastes and also because she's one of like 2 people here I've never played with or seen in action before and have thus prioritized getting a read on.

That's because it is a random vote? I mean, I know it's not as strong as voting for someone because I hate them or because "um .... duh" but you know, it's still the first day.

I'm ready to get down to business now though because someone has been rubbing me the wrong way.

Ok, I'm changing my mind about Gandalf. His arguments are becoming too pointed to be dumbtown and are more likely to be coming from scum.

1) This kinda offbeat theory that scum don't have super powers / cannot utilize the ring. This possibility did not occur to me AT ALL. Maybe it did for other people, in which case I'm wrong, but it smells like insider info.

2) The whole "ring makes scum action immune, so nobody targets ringbearer." Same as above. It is just not something that occurred to me AS TOWN.

3) Why the hell would we give the ring to a random NULL read and not a strong TOWN read? Or someone claiming to have a good power?

None of what Gandalf has been saying is offbeat. It's very speculative, sure, but I can understand where it comes from. I don't think that first speculation about scum not being able to use the ring is very solid but I see why he thought of that. I don't happen to think it's a useful road to go down but I don't see why scum would reveal that if it were truly inside info and not just speculation.

I think number two is a reasonable assumption and it's suspect that you say it would never have occurred to you as town - given that twice you've mentioned that you thought the ring holder would be an obvious NK target. The way to counter that is of course to make them not killable while they hold it. Not only does it make sense flavorwise, but game mechanic-wise and think it's pretty odd that you state you would not have considered that given that you also stated you thought the ringholder would be an obvious target.

Also in reviewing your posting, I don't necessarily take issue with your first post for trying to direct town, I take issue with it as an essentially meaningless post. I always find it suspicious when people post as if they are giving game insight, and then you really look at it and all they are doing is stating the obvious. Which is basically what your first post was.

Let's make this for real.

UNVOTE: Mariyta
VOTE: AlmasterGM

[gandalf5166]

I didn't think that Plum had been lying earlier, but her last post is undeniable.

VOTE: Plum

AGM can die tomorrow. After we're done dancing through fields of grass and flowers(or rather barren rock and dust) in celebration of cleansing our homeland of one scum.

[AlmasterGM]

Also in reviewing your posting, I don't necessarily take issue with your first post for trying to direct town, I take issue with it as an essentially meaningless post. I always find it suspicious when people post as if they are giving game insight, and then you really look at it and all they are doing is stating the obvious. Which is basically what your first post was.

So let me get this straight - you are voting for me because my first post of the game didn't say anything relevant?

Hellllooooooooo scum in need of an excuse to get on the wagon.

[quadz08]

Gandalf is thinking too hard about flavor. I see where's he's coming from, but I doubt it has a bearing on the game.

Plum not remembering that Edge = Fate is odd, but not really relevant or scummy.

My vote is still on Katy because her reason for voting Mariyta is entirely too nebulous for my tastes and also because she's one of like 2 people here I've never played with or seen in action before and have thus prioritized getting a read on.

Really? Her RVS vote reasoning is too nebulous for you? Would you have preferred that she voted based on someone's username, or their avatar color, perhaps? This argument sucks, esu.

AGM: Attempt to direct the town has been noted.

There's definitely an implication of AGM's scumminess in this post. I think your explanation is feasible, but I'm not sure if I buy it. Additionally, your vote on Plum smacks of OMGUS.

Vote and Imbue? Check.
Talking about lack of accountability IN A POST WHERE YOU IMBUE SOMEONE? Check.
Saying that 'flavor' would mean the ONE RING DOESNT DO THINGS TO EVERYONE? Wooosh Check.

I do not understand why any of this = gandyscum. Why does imbuing someone conflict with talking about a lack of accountability? And why does flavor speculation = scummy?

UNVOTE: , VOTE: Mariyta

[singersigner]

1.

I'm just thinking about the flavor and making fairly obvious assumptions. If I was scum, remind me why I would supply the town with this "insider info"?

2.

Do you have anyone as a STRONG town read at this point? I don't. The closest to that that I have is a leaning-town on esurio. But my point is that

WE WANT GOOD PLAYERS TO HAVE THE RING. NOT STUPID TOWN.

And I don't know anything about esurio, so I don't trust him to use it well if he is town. Thus, I vote for SptySpy because I DO think that if he is town, he'll know how to use it.

3.

And to be honest, I don't trust anyone who claims that they have a strong superpower. Why would town claim that? It's basically telling the scum "O HAI GUIZ I HAVE REALLY AWESOME ROLE NK ME PLOX?"

4.

I do like the AGM wagon. He seems like he's pretending to be stupid, probably because I'm right, as opposed to Edge who I'm pretty sure actually is being stupid.

VOTE: AGM

1. This is WIFOMtastic. Congratulations.

2. VOTE: Gandalf5166

3. Remind me who claimed that they had a strong superpower?

4. ...what???

5. His and Mari's last votes were just terribad.

[gandalf5166]

1. Lol. No, seriously. If I AM scum, I'm feeding you misinformation. There's no reason for me to tell you what I know. Occam's Razor > WIFOM
2. I notice that you don't bother refuting my logic because you can't.
3. I don't remember. But Edge told them to(another reason why I think Edge is genuinely being stupid), so I don't blame them. Plenty of people mindlessly do whatever Fate tells them. Hell, I do it sometimes.
4. Now YOU'RE pretending to be stupid.
5. Lol. Once again, you don't refute my logic, because you can't.

[quadz08]

Occam's Razor > WIFOM

Occam's Razor has no place in mafia. That holds no water at all.

[gandalf5166]

Occam's Razor > WIFOM

Occam's Razor has no place in mafia. That holds no water at all.

Why not? I've seen it used in many occasions, and it's won the game. See Cross Edge Bastard Mod.

[gandalf5166]

Hell, it's on the mafiawiki.

I know for a fact that I have never made a kill or done anything like what SS is suggesting as scum, simply because most people on this site ignore things like that and say WIFOM just like SS did, so why not just do what is best for your team? If you can kill the person who suspects you most, and then the next day, everyone will assume that it's WIFOM, why not just do it?

[quadz08]

I agree that bringing up what you brought up isn't scummy. I was just tossing in what is essentially a theory-based belief of mine; I don't think that Occam's Razor really ever comes into play.

[gandalf5166]

I agree that bringing up what you brought up isn't scummy. I was just tossing in what is essentially a theory-based belief of mine; I don't think that Occam's Razor really ever comes into play.

So you think that things are never simple in mafia?

[singersigner]

1. Lol. No, seriously. If I AM scum, I'm feeding you misinformation. There's no reason for me to tell you what I know. Occam's Razor > WIFOM
2. I notice that you don't bother refuting my logic because you can't.
3. I don't remember. But Edge told them to(another reason why I think Edge is genuinely being stupid), so I don't blame them. Plenty of people mindlessly do whatever Fate tells them. Hell, I do it sometimes.
4. Now YOU'RE pretending to be stupid.
5. Lol. Once again, you don't refute my logic, because you can't.

1. What quadz said.
2. Retarded defense noted. Lemme spell it out for you so you can stop playing dumb:

WE WANT GOOD PLAYERS TO HAVE THE RING. NOT STUPID TOWN.

You're saying that it's better for unconfirmed good players to have the ring, as opposed to more or less confirmed townies who could more or less at least do SOME good with the power, if not the best.

Good players =/= always town.

3. Your deflection to Edge is noted. No one said they had an AWESOME power. I only know there have been a couple people who have noted whether or not theirs was worth using sooner rather than later.
4. Now, now. No name calling. That only makes it seem like you don't have any other means of defending yourself.
5. If I felt like there was logic there to refute, then I would do so.

[gandalf5166]

1. Nice. Just go with a defense that's obviously bullshit. At least then you can back out of this with at least ONE person who agrees with you.
2. You're saying that if I became confirmed town, you would rather give me the ring(I'm assuming you think I'm stupid, but maybe that's just an air you're putting on so you don't have to make sense when you argue with me) then give it to Edge(if he had a power) who is PROBABLY town.
3. How did I deflect to Edge? I just think that he didn't really think before announcing his MASTER PLAN. I've never even implied that Edge was scum. Not to mention, this wasn't even a point against me, so I don't see how I can "deflect" it to Edge.
4. I never called you names. In fact, I'm complimenting you by assuming that you're NOT stupid, based on what else I've seen of your play.
5. This is proof for my #2 point, BTW. But really. If my logic is retarded, why can't you refute it? Do you think AGM really is stupid? Do you think that he's not been acting stupid? If so, point out why you think his side of the argument makes sense.

I'm glad we managed to catch the whole scumteam this early.

[quadz08]

I agree that bringing up what you brought up isn't scummy. I was just tossing in what is essentially a theory-based belief of mine; I don't think that Occam's Razor really ever comes into play.

So you think that things are never simple in mafia?

I think that it's rare that the simplest possible solution is accurate. Things can be simple, but they're rarely as simple as possible.

I'm glad we managed to catch the whole scumteam this early.

Ummmm... if singer IS scum, that's only one person.

[gandalf5166]

So you seriously think that scum will do something that hurts their team(giving town info about the ring) hoping that everyone will assume that they're town, when they know that some douchefag will come along and yell WIFOM?

[AlmasterGM]

I'm glad we managed to catch the whole scumteam this early.

Who is the whole scumteam?

[quadz08]

So you seriously think that scum will do something that hurts their team(giving town info about the ring) hoping that everyone will assume that they're town, when they know that some douchefag will come along and yell WIFOM?

Um... no... I was making a general comment about Occam's Razor.

[gandalf5166]

I'm glad we managed to catch the whole scumteam this early.

Who is the whole scumteam?

You, Plum, and SS, of course.

[singersigner]

I'm glad we managed to catch the whole scumteam this early.

Who is the whole scumteam?

You, Plum, and SS, of course.

It's funny because I don't actually think ANY of us are scum. I can't speak for either of them, of course, but I trust my read of quadz. Sorry, I can just read him like a book, and he's definitely town.

NOT KNOWING WHO FATE IS IS NOT A SCUM TELL SORRY TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE.

[gandalf5166]

Uh........

When did I say quadz was scum? Congrats on confirming you're scum.

Note that she's literally not reading at all, just assuming that she knows what I'm going to say(more evidence that she thinks I'm stupid, as well as being scummy in and of itself).

[singersigner]

Agh, I only saw quadz' post above yours.

[esuriospiritus]

@Fate: Funny, here I was thinking taking a stance on and later clarifying my position on the Mariyta/AGM was generating content. Sooner or later you're just going to have to get over your perpetual vendetta against me in every game and accept the fact that not everyone has a way of generating content/way of defending themselves/general playstyle that you approve of.

That's because it is a random vote?

VOTE: Mariyta for taking the easy way out right at the start.

That sure doesn't sound like someone voting randomly to me, not considering it was right after Mariyta's comment on AGM directing the town. It sounded like a serious vote with no elaboration on the reasoning behind it, and still does to me. Also, her vote on AGM smells like someone desperate to join another wagon after receiving criticism for an earlier vote.

On a side note, as someone with a horrible memory myself, I am skeptical that anyone could seriously consider forgetting who the heads of a hydra are a scumtell. Also, Occam's Razor totally happens in mafia.

[singersigner]

Also, Occam's Razor totally happens in mafia.

In my experience, the only people I've ever seen point out Occam's Razor have been scum.