Mini 1113 - Brotherhood of the Wolf Mafia

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count 1.6 - As of Post 225

Zang (0) -
Untrod Tripod (2) - UncertainKitten, Mariyta
Mariyta (1) - havingfitz
AlmasterGM (0) -
Katsuki (2) - Untrod Tripod, GhostWriter
LynchMePls (3) - StrangerCoug, Zang, CooLDoG
StrangerCoug (1) - AlmasterGM
AKnottedRope (1) - LynchMePls
CoolDoG (1) - AKnottedRope
UncertainKitten (0) -
Mina (0) -
havingfitz (0) -
GhostWriter (2) - Mina, Katsuki

Not Voting (0) - No one

The Current deadline in Februrary 7th at 9:00am EST. The Countdown can be found

HERE

With 13 alive - 7 are required to lynch and 5 are required to lynch at deadline.

Activity Check - Already conducted.

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Reckmonic

From a few days ago.

[Mina]

Sorry, guys. I'd thought the prod limit for this game was seventy-two hours. For some reason, it always takes me a while to get into a game on D1. Also, to be honest, I kind of dreaded showing my face in here again after I accidentally made the game implode.

I hate that I've contributed next to nothing so far. Going to make a few big posts today (I'd started working on one last night but didn't finish it before I fell asleep).

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Reckmonic

From a few days ago.

UNVOTE: MariytaVOTE: LMP (for the sins of his predecessor)

[GhostWriter]

Let's see what's going on.

Okay, first things first, the UT wagon. It makes no sense to me. If it can be explained, please do, because it does not compute.

Next, the LMP wagon. It seems very stupid. Like, incredibly stupid. Stop screwing around, because it cannot be serious.

UK, what do you think of Zang?

Also:

Unvote

and then VOTE: Havingfitz for seemingly voting a miller for having a role that appears scummy. I mean, really? And then continuing to vote the slot after saying the replacement seems to be doing well.

[UncertainKitten]

I try to pretend Zang doesn't exist since reading his posts often gives me a headache. My experience has been he's difficult to read, and I'm happy with my current scum picks.

As for the UT wagon, well, part of it is him being completely and absolutely useless. Even now that he's supposedly posted content, it's been useless. The secondary aspect of my case is that a lot of people are saying he's scummy...yet he doesn't have many votes on him. I feel that if he were just an idiot townie, scum would be all over shoving that wagon, since it SHOULD be agreeable. Intriguingly enough, no one has, except for me.

Now, I suppose I could possibly be scum doing what I outlined above, but that's for you to decide.

Top suspects, GW? Oh, and how remiss I am. Who are your top suspects, Havingfitz? UT?

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, right, also at Mina, but she has to catch up.

[Mina]

I started writing a list for UK of suspects, but then I realized that maybe four or five players

weren't

on it. But I need to get off the computer now, so this is only a partial catch-up post. I'll give a full list of reads later.

AGM, could you answer this:

But me personally, I don't care much about that. I'm liking my vote on Mariyta right now. Because this "people haven't posted" thing when it's page 2 and half the playerlist hasn't posted is 1) silly 2) forced scumhunting 3) smells like fake trying to appear town.

Mariyta was the one who voted AKR for having posted only fluff. CooLDoG was the one arguing that it was scummy for Mariyta to vote

because some people hadn't posted at all

. So was AKnottedRope.

Does this change your read on Mariyta, CooLDoG, or AKnottedRope, y/n?

Also, do you believe that posting fluff (as opposed to not posting at all) in the RVS is a scumtell?

==================================
Anyway, my thoughts on the miller fiasco, since I never got them out on Saturday:

AGM earned a few town points for calling SC on his "My reasons are special snowflakes!" defence and for explaining why it's irrelevant that Reck left out the Henri Sardens part of his claim (since he'd already tied himself to a character). But just to debunk the nameclaim argument some more:

LynchMePls: His predecessor claimed the Henri Sardis part of his claim after another person brought up the name. Previously, he had claimed only he was the head of the BotW—he did not supply a name.

No, that's only half true. Here's Mariyta's quote:

Alright, I did a little research to refresh my memory of the movie since I haven't seen it in a couple years and all the comments about the main antagonist were confusing me. First, Reck never claimed a name, but I'm assuming they're

Henri, the priest who is the leader of the Brotherhood

. He's psycho, yes, but not the main bad guy. He makes sense as scum, but he also makes sense as a miller. I don't think he knows about the beast or Gypsies, but I may be remembering that wrong.

So Mariyta offered the name "Henri" (which was a bad move on her part, but that's irrelevant). Reckamonic got all pissy that we're such idiots for not figuring out his true role name...but then added the name "Henri

Sardens

." Mariyta didn't offer the Sardens part.

Come on. Someone with no knowledge of the flavour won't be dumb enough to say, "Hey, guys! I'm the leader of the Brotherhood of the Wolf...yeah, no idea who that is, but it's the title of the movie, and I'm totally a miller." Even if he's scum, he's claiming his real role name.

And considering any miller character will be a bit dodgy, anyone voting LMP for

flavour alone

(looking at you, havingfitz and CooLDoG) without having ever seen the movie is being very arrogant and ignorant. I am trusting Mariyta's word that Henri Sardens is plausible as a miller, and leaving it for now.

Furthermore, miller claims in a theme game aren't difficult to verify. Let me give Harry Potter Mafia as an example. Severus Snape was a miller to a cop who detected Dark Marks. So maybe the cop in this game might also fit with a Henri Sardens-miller character.

Therefore, it makes no sense to lynch LMP until:

1) You all see the movie for yourselves instead of making, "He claimed a minor bad guy! Clearly he's evil."
2) We get a cop claim with a flavour.
3) We see at least one scum flip.

Also, AGM, why exactly is "rage-quitting" a scumtell? Why is Reckamonic more likely to replace out when insulted as town? I actually got town vibes from the "lynch us D1 if you're going to lynch the miller at all" post. It struck the right irritated town note with me.

==========================================

Okay, first things first, the UT wagon. It makes no sense to me. If it can be explained, please do, because it does not compute.

Big words. GhostWriter,

why

are you so against the Untrod Tripod wagon? Admittedly, UT's most recent post had actual effort behind it (although the UncertainKitten vote was like something out of Lalaland--a country whose denizens I have a zero-percent success rate in reading). But the wagon was mostly based on him being lurky and bandwagoning shameless. I can see being lukewarm on UT. But I can't see how someone could have a read on UT more positive than null at this point. Why are you defending him? Do you know something we don't?

Also, GhostWriter, what do you think of Zang, CooLDoG, and StrangerCoug? See if you can guess why I singled out those three players.

Also, my early town read on CooLDoG has been spiraling down the drain. I don't know his town meta, but

ugh

. Most egregious offender:

I'll keep my vote on reck

, but I think now I understand his posting. You should post v/la and take a break, whats the point of playing a game if it isn't fun?

[AKnottedRope]

before I finsish reading:
@uk, pissed off at people enough to quit like that isn't in fis meta.

Which makes him scum because?

FTR, points like this are why CD is scum.

Also, can post lengths be truncated somewhat? Walls of text 1) hurt my brain and 2) make it easier for scum to hide behind. If you have something to say, say it concisely.

[AlmasterGM]

Mariyta was the one who voted AKR for having posted only fluff. CooLDoG was the one arguing that it was scummy for Mariyta to vote because some people hadn't posted at all. So was AKnottedRope.

Does this change your read on Mariyta, CooLDoG, or AKnottedRope, y/n?

I don't care it's irreverent now.

Also, do you believe that posting fluff (as opposed to not posting at all) in the RVS is a scumtell?

Depends on the situation. If everyone else is posting stuff and you are going LOLFLUFF, its scummy. If everyone is going LOLFLUFF, it' not.

Also, AGM, why exactly is "rage-quitting" a scumtell? Why is Reckamonic more likely to replace out when insulted as town? I actually got town vibes from the "lynch us D1 if you're going to lynch the miller at all" post. It struck the right irritated town note with me.

Because I have seen them power through games filled with idiocy as town before because they didn't give a shit what said idiots thought. It seems like they would care more if they had more to lose (e.g., if they were scum).

BUT LIKE I'VE SAID, THAT DOESN'T MATTER AS MUCH.

Now, want to be a dear and vote StrangerCoug (aka SCum), please?

[AKnottedRope]

Crap, didn't see page 10.

And considering any miller character will be a bit dodgy, anyone voting LMP for flavour alone (looking at you, havingfitz and CooLDoG) without having ever seen the movie is being very arrogant and ignorant. I am trusting Mariyta's word that Henri Sardens is plausible as a miller, and leaving it for now.

This. Frankly, LMP is the easiest place for scum to place a vote atm given the claim.

Furthermore, miller claims in a theme game aren't difficult to verify. Let me give Harry Potter Mafia as an example. Severus Snape was a miller to a cop who detected Dark Marks. So maybe the cop in this game might also fit with a Henri Sardens-miller character.

This is an odd assumption to make about LMP's role... Nope, not liking this at all. For future reference, Mina needs a good re-reading if LMP should flip scum.

Therefore, it makes no sense to lynch LMP until:

1) You all see the movie for yourselves instead of making, "He claimed a minor bad guy! Clearly he's evil."
2) We get a cop claim with a flavour.
3) We see at least one scum flip.

So he can't be lynched if he does something scummy? Claiming miller doesn't give him a free pass.

[Mina]

Phone posting again. Let's see if this time I get through a post without horribly insulting anyone.

AKR: In an alternate universe in which LMP was the scummiest player in the game AND I was so confident in his guilt that I wasn't willing to wait another day for couple of flips to shed light on the claim, I'd vote for him in spite of their claim. And that doesn't mean LMP should get a free pass today. But I have a town read on the slot anyway. This is just a pragmatic argument for those who

don't

have a town read on him.

I'll try to tone down the wall-posting.

AGM: But...but...I can't vote for a player I haven't written a wall post on! My inner OCD rebels! In all seriousness, I'm having trouble deciding who's scummiest of the four anti-miller players, and I'm not quite satisfied with GW (bright side: AKR is no longer useless!). I still wanted to poke at StrangerCoug a bit, but I'd
be okay moving my vote there when I'm caught up.

[GhostWriter]

AGM: So you keep mentioning having seen them go through games filled with idiots before as town. That's all fine and dandy, but it doesn't really make them guilty for not doing it now. I'll just assume you don't believe anything they said about the real reason behind the quitting. Even with that assumption, just because you've seen them do something as town doesn't mean they do the opposite as scum. You're making a large leap there.

UK: The thing is, I don't see people calling him scum, persay, so much as finding problems with things he did. Sort of in the way you find problems with some things Zang may say, which is why I brought Zang up before. My top two are Kat and Fitz. Mina is getting ready to join as number 3 though. Here is why.

Mina:

Okay, first things first, the UT wagon. It makes no sense to me. If it can be explained, please do, because it does not compute.

Big words. GhostWriter,

why

are you so against the Untrod Tripod wagon? Admittedly, UT's most recent post had actual effort behind it (although the UncertainKitten vote was like something out of Lalaland--a country whose denizens I have a zero-percent success rate in reading). But the wagon was mostly based on him being lurky and bandwagoning shameless. I can see being lukewarm on UT. But I can't see how someone could have a read on UT more positive than null at this point. Why are you defending him? Do you know something we don't?

Making leaps and bounds with this, aren't we? At no point, in that post, did I A) Defend UT B) State that I was against the wagon C) post any read on UT. So, tell me, are you from this Lalaland you mentioned? Because I'm having a zero-percent success rate in figuring out where the hell you're getting this from, based on those 3 sentences. Go on, break it down for the class.

Also, GhostWriter, what do you think of Zang, CooLDoG, and StrangerCoug? See if you can guess why I singled out those three players.

Clearly, you picked the 3 people on LMP's wagon. And I, also clearly, think they are all wrong. I've only done an iso on Zang, which was damn near pointless, because I don't have a read on him, and a partial iso on CD to try to find out what was so scummy about him, in which case I didn't find him more scummy than Kat or Fitz.

[StrangerCoug]

Just because nobody supports my argument does not render it invalid.

If 4-5 people come out and say, "your arguments are crap," then I will accept that they are probably crap and STFU. Otherwise, I am going to roll with the fact that I am right and you are either A) scum or B) bad at determining what is crap. A being more likely in this case.

No weaseling out here. Sorry.

I have called it a cheap policy lynch. You disagree. That you disagree is fine for the purposes of this part of my argument, but I don't see how else it is inadequate.

I do not accept meta as a valid basis for a vote. If xRECKONERx and dramonic are smart, and I hope very much they are, they'll play to their town meta as scum. Therefore, the concept of "town meta" is flawed. If you want me to relent with regard to this, I want a scum motivation behind someone saying "screw you all, I'm outta here" that has nothing to do with what that person has done in previous games.

You are underestimating the power of anger.

Yes, Reck and dram are smart.

But even the smartest people can have trouble putting on a perfect facade when they are angry. Thus, the ragequit was relevant.

And I don't really care if you don't accept meta as an argument. I do, and so do plenty of other people. So if you want to vote for me for using meta (oooooohohohoho look, scary policy lynches) then go ahead and do that.

Fine, because this does little to answer my question. Your use of the word "facade" implies that Reckamonic was trying to hide something, but couldn't anymore once he blew up. What the hell is it, and what makes his anger scummy?

UNVOTE: Katsuki
VOTE: AlmasterGM

There's a difference between what's going on, AGM. Reckamonic gave the name Henri Sardons two posts prior to the quote of mine you post, and the intervening post is not directed at Reckamonic. Therefore, I am the first person to suspect Reckamonic for tacking on the name to the claim. You, on the other hand, are taking LynchMePls's word for it that AKnottedRope is scum without question. Fine, but it'd be nice if you added something.

Oh no. Oh no you don't.

Reck had already claimed head of brotherhood of the wolf. This is a THEME game, and the head of the brotherhood of the wolf has a DEFINED NAME. There aren't multiple options to chose from. When xReck claimed "head of the brotherhood of the wolf," it doesn't matter that he didn't include the official namey-name because he was already locked in. He couldn't come back later and say, "oh wait guyz, JUST KIDDING, I meant that OTHER head of the brotherhood of the wolf." So you get NO EXTRA POINTS for calling that out because all the cards were already on the table. You were copying Mariyta's argument PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

I can accept that there is only one head of the BotW and that the name is implied. I just kind of expected them to spit out the name instead of insist that their nameclaim is just "head of the BoTW" with no other info. I am completely unfamiliar with the movie and expected a werewolf-themed game, which I haven't played in awhile.

StrangerCoug, leaning scum

Looking through SC's ISO, I see very little scumhunting and a whole lot of theory discussion and weasel words. He makes some decent points about Reck, but at this point the discussion about that slot really should be more about LMP than his predecessor. SC's and AGM's argument about Reck is just dragging on and getting into pointless semantics. AGM has moved onto other things, SC has not.

I am sorry, but Reck's actions do not clear LMP. As for AGM, I want answers and I will push until I get them.

I

decide when I'm happy with what I've been given, and right now I'm not.

[UncertainKitten]

I see more people calling him scum. Could you cite sources for your claim, GW?

[CooLDoG]

@Uk, again posting as I'm reading... You never asked that but I'm still happy to answer. It simply doesn't help him as scum. Its off of meta and nothing else. As well as the fact that he wasn't contributing.

[UncertainKitten]

So what exactly does that contribute to the case against Reck? Scum are not generally in the habit of doing things that don't benefit them. There's WIFOM but then there's dumb. What you propose is in the latter set.

[CooLDoG]

@mina, still posting as I go, put simply I'm not voting based off of flavor anymore.
@AKR, so are you arguing that meta is pointless? this early in the game (d-1) I find meta to be useful... Honestly, is that the best defense you can come up with? (but wait you aren't reck's slot...).

@uk's nija: its simply a meta read, cmon. Don't you people get what a meta read is?

[AlmasterGM]

Oh hi, OMGUS.

[UncertainKitten]

Meta reads are in general crap and overall unhelpful. But thanks for trying, CD.

So, no, I'm rather unconvinced by "OMG HE'S NOT PLAYING TO HIS META!"

[CooLDoG]

*sigh* @AGM, who is this directed to? really I have a meta read on Reck, plus the weird claim (flavor backed up, I read the wiki). Calling meta pointless is stretchy.
@Uk, obviously., meta is not a good enough tell to go for a vote, duh. But this early and with so few posts I find meta to be useful. That may just be me, but I like my reck slot vote (or lynchmeplease or what ever).

[AlmasterGM]

STRANGERCOUG. Not you.

You're still scum, though.

[UncertainKitten]

There are people who have actively done worse things in THIS game than whatever sins or lack thereof Reckamonic has committed in prior games. Get your ass in this game, in the present. Drop the past, and suddenly your scumhunting becomes a LOT BETTER.

[GhostWriter]

UK, just got back in from Taco Bell, so I'll go look for examples in a bit, but first things first.

CD: Are you fucking serious right now? "It goes against his meta, blah blah blah, if he's never done it before, he must be scum, blah blah blah, I swear it's not flavor, blah blah blah". Someone doing something as town in one game DOES NOT mean that them doing the opposite in another game makes them auto-scum. Especially since he even said it was mostly due to outside stress, which his posts reflect if you actually fucking read them. But you just go right ahead pushing this bullshit case. You'll lynch yourself before you lynch LMP at this rate, and I'd gladly join that wagon.

[GhostWriter]

UK: Posts 58, 61, 62, and 66 are the posts on that page that mention UT. He is mentioned before this, but it is once, and I don't feel like moving from this page (page 3). Out of those 4, only 66 shows someone calling him scummy.

58 is just AGM stating that with all the people complaining about who's putting what vote where, it was odd that they left out UT.
61 and 62 both acknowledge what UT did, or didn't do, but say it isn't as bad as whoever they're sights were set on at the time, effectively saying others were scummier and that though UT hadn't posted much content, that alone wasn't enough to set him ahead of others and didn't really mean much.

The UT case doesn't really take off until 66 and when you pick it up.