Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[I Am Innocent]

You're ignoring a few key points here.

2) TMH only said he wanted to demo-kill... once, IIRC. Then LMP got in his face and called him scummy for even suggesting it, saying that it would say more if he shot someone and took the consequences. So that's what he did. Incidentally, Doctor being a "strong power role" only seems to apply in this game where there's only one, maybe two people talking sense at a time.

Well he may have only used the word democratically once, but below are five posts where he mentions the group voting on what we should do. So I'll say it was five times not one.

As for the peer pressure of LMP, please, that is no excuse. For you to even make that an excuse for "town" TMH is absurd. For all "town" TMH knows, LMP is scum trying to rush things, so I do not buy that for one instance.

Seems like a good idea to me. I had the power to change the cycle of night choices for N1. For example, I could tell the mod to send diddin's power to someone else regardless of who diddin tried to send it to. I sent the day-vig ability to myself and the person who got my redirect power knows who they are probably figured out why I sent it to them. I'm all for using my power democratically

Why wouldn't I take it? Diddin could very well have decided to send it to scum or dumb town who would just vig whomever they felt like and hit someone wrong, this way I know it's in safe hands and that it can be used as a second lynch. However, I'm not gonna stall like diddin did. I have to wait for the virus to be activated in order to use so 48 hours after it's activated, I'm day-vigging whoever has the most votes. I'm only going to count one vote from each person and bolding helps. Nor am I going to narrow it down. Whoever has the most votes (excepting me of course) gets vigged.

I don't know whether diddin is scum and that argument could be used for any use of the abilty. It's an anti-town ability so I sent it to someone that I suspect to be scum so if I day-vig him or we lynch him it's two birds with one stone. I sent the day-vig ability to myself because I'm the only confirmed town that I know of. If voting for the ability is pointless then vote for me to use it however I want and if that's the majority at my deadline then that's what I'll do.

@WC- It varies

Alright, just got a PM that my power is active, I think diddin is the best kill. I'll take votes for 24 hours. If you want me to go with my gut and bear the responsibility, vote my gut.

Note it is no longer 48 hours, but 24.

I think pops has been fairly helpful, though if he has the most votes in 24 hours I won't hesitate, the other three I can see easily.

C'mon guys, don't wuss out, I'm playing in like four games right now and this one is hands down my favorite. I don't like that sentiment coming from parama because it sounds to me like he's scum who knows that he's caught. Implosion and pops haven't been major suspects so I don't necessarily see that coming from them. I'll do the game a three fold favor right now

Daykill: Parama

1) He doesn't want to be here
2) This will give us new info to go off of
3) he's scum
Most people seem fine with him dying in some fashion or another anyway

Daykill: Parama

whoops

This last post is less than 10.5 hours after he starts his 24 hour deadline

.

Saint, I no longer have a town read on your slot. Your defense of TMH is completely absurd. His taking of the power role was scummy, his killing a player 13.5 hours prior to saying he would without asking for a claim is even scummier. TMH will die D3. And your defense of him is really throwing me for a loop.

*******************

I got the virus and passed it to diddin, I think he's extremely scummy and I've brought it up before. One thing I want to mention is that from my interpretation of the redirector role PM, it's not a standard ability. I'm only bringing this up because if diddin survives and passes the ability, he'll probably try to pass it to scum to clear one or the other (assuming he's scum, which I am).

Need to double check, doesn't Diddin say later that it is a standard ability?

Also a reminder to self to double check everybody's suggestions for the D2 vig kill.

[Saint]

Also a reminder to self to double check everybody's suggestions for the D2 vig kill.

Sure, let's.

The posts before everyone got distracted by the Virus were taken up by OMG TMH IS SCUM and no recommendations, so let's start reading at 1343 when DBE gets fried.

IAI - Bunnylover/Pops
Bunnylover - Saint/Parama
Parama - diddin
TMH - diddin/Parama
ckd - Parama/Bunnylover

Breaking to say lol, quadz is pushing that diddin and TMH can both be scum on ~*~different scumgroups~*~ in 1361

quadz - diddin/Parama/Nero Cain/Saint
diddin - Bunnylover/quadz/RedCoyote
implosion - RedCoyote/curiouskarmadog
StrangerCoug - TMH/Saint/Parama
pops - Whoever (not counting this for anything)

Five Votes

Parama

Three Votes

Bunnylover
Saint
diddin

Two Votes

RedCoyote

One Vote

popsofctown
Nero Cain
quadz
curiouskarmadog
themanhimself

I'm sure nobody actually looked at these numbers when deciding who to shoot or whether tmh was scummy, but there you have it.

More in a few.

[Saint]

Also, I can't tell if this slot is voting, so.

Vote: quadz (L-way too many)

RedCoyote is fine too.

[popsofctown]

No, wrong, help me hang lmp

[Saint]

I can compromise, but first

MOD: VOTE COUNT

also

Lateralus22 has requested replacement.

I feel sorry for who picks this slot up.

[Saint]

Saint, I no longer have a town read on your slot.

The site rules say you aren't allowed to be Town and sound more pompous than me. I'd hate for you to get modkilled.

As for the peer pressure of LMP, please, that is no excuse. For you to even make that an excuse for "town" TMH is absurd. For all "town" TMH knows, LMP is scum trying to rush things, so I do not buy that for one instance.

That's if he considered it that way. I wouldn't have.

His taking of the power role was scummy

Not particularly. If someone like Moai had done it nobody would have raised a fuss.

his killing a player 13.5 hours prior to saying he would without asking for a claim is even scummier.

Let's look at the last few posts before his shot.

You guys shoot whoever you want. I can't find scum in this game and I just give up. Well I can't totally give up, I've got a duty to play to my wincon, but I am going to take a break. I've read too many players wrong this game, I need some time to develop a new angle on this game. Or more information.

Frankly, I'm starting to feel this way a bit too. I really like the game concept/setup idea, but the town just seems to be imploding . We need to hit scum soon.

To which he replies

C'mon guys, don't wuss out, I'm playing in like four games right now and this one is hands down my favorite. I don't like that sentiment coming from parama because it sounds to me like he's scum who knows that he's caught. Implosion and pops haven't been major suspects so I don't necessarily see that coming from them. I'll do the game a three fold favor right now

The comment that implosion and pops "haven't been major suspects" is somewhat strange, but the fact remains that he thought he was doing a good thing. Besides, I think asking about the No Lynch D1 pretty much cements that tmh is impulsive when he tries to be helpful, and this is more of the same.

---

I don't like defending other people for them. They usually take the opportunity to look scummier, although they usually still flip Town. But it's the only way a VI-type seems to be able to get a fair shake.

---

So which is it, did you take matters in your own hands, or did you do it because there were alot of other people who wanted him dead?

Why not both?

---

So regarding the below, I believe Lat's (later) vote counts were swayed by the fact the person holding the day vig said EC was off limits. (Post one, why is EC scummy, Post two, I don't want to out any more power roles, Post three, I am not shooting EC) Agree?

One and two, not really. Three, yes.

diddin confirms that it's only between WC and Helghast in 541.

And... yes, Lat's vote and a few others definitely changed to just those two. So you are correct here.

I still don't think this necessarily makes diddin scum though.

[The Eruci]

:: VoteCount 2x7 ::

LynchMePls (1) -

popsofctown

RedCoyote (1) -

implosion

themanhimself (3) -

RedCoyote, WrathChild, StrangerCoug

Lateralus22 (0) -

WrathChild (5) -

nhammen, Nero Cain, LynchMePls, diddin, themanhimself

curiouskarmadog (0) -

quadz08 (1) -

Saint

Nero Cain (0) -

q21 (0) -

diddin (1) -

quadz08

popsofctown (0) -

Bunnylover (1) -

I Am Innocent

I Am Innocent (1) -

Bunnylover

StrangerCoug (0) -

Implosion (0) -

nhammen (0) -

Saint (1) -

q21

Not Voting (2) -

curiouskarmadog, Lateralus22

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline for Day Two is Tuesday February 1st, 2011 5:00pm EST.

[Nero Cain]

Implosion needs to vote ASAP.

[quadz08]

Yeah, but there's not a lot of evidence pointing to one right now—only that MagnaofIllusion and chkflip died the same night. What town relevance is there in differentiating Mafia from a potential Mafia A and Mafia B?

Example: TMH is mafia A. diddin is mafia B. They are completely capable of passing powers to one another, meaning that IF ONE FLIPS SCUM THE OTHER IS NOT CONFIRMED TOWN, as I've said at least twice now.

Overall, Darla sucks, diddin still sucks, Nero still sucks, WC sucks less, nhammen doesn't suck (though I'm ready for something other than catch-up posts), Parama still sucks, IAI doesn't suck, Bunny sucks, TMH sucks a LOT.

Agree about Darla, diddin, Nero, and WC (except for the less part). Disagree about Parama and Bunny. Agree about TMH. Also, something is creeping me out about how you have frequently stated I am town or have defended me. It's like an ex-girlfriend repeatedly trying to get back together.

Hey quadz, I never saw a response to this. I'd like to see if there is anything you want to say.

Not really, no. Just statements of my reads.

After reading the arguments on lynching TMH tonight, I'm actually going to do a 180: he should get the stump and get vigged tomorrow. It makes too much sense to NOT do it. Having the dayvig around longer is a concern for me, but if it's pretty much gonna be used to get rid of TMH/the stump, there's no reason to get rid of it.

UNVOTE:

At this point, I'm not terribly confident in any of my reads. diddin's D1 play, though, stands out to me as the scummiest thing thus far, so

VOTE: diddin

One problem with this post. Without diddin, the dayvig probably goes to the void. So why exactly are you wanting to not lynch tmh if it isn't to save the dayvig?

... dammit. This game... UNVOTE: diddin

His taking of the power role was scummy

Not particularly. If someone like Moai had done it nobody would have raised a fuss.

Ummmm... I hope that's not the case. I sure as hell would have.

@Saint: Why are you making such a fuss over me mentioning multiple scumteams? It's playing pretty heavily into the whole TMH/diddin thing; I don't see why it's scummy (or even bad play) for me to mention it.

[implosion]

I already did vote,

Mod, I'm voting redcoyote

.

[I Am Innocent]

quadz, why no revote?

TMH, care to vote?

[quadz08]

Honestly? I don't have a clue who to vote FOR. I haven't the foggiest idea of who's scum, except for thinking TMH and diddin are scummy, and as described above, voting for them isn't a good idea.

[diddin]

^Quadz is so scum.

Him or WC, decisions, decisions...

[Nero Cain]

^Quadz is so scum.
Him or WC, decisions, decisions...

I agree. I'm thinkin' CKD, Nnhamen and, q21?

Wanna start a Quadz bw? I do

unvote;vote: Quadz

RedCoyote (1) -

RedCoyote

[/quote]

needs fix

[themanhimself]

TMH, care to vote?

I've been voting for wrath child for a while.

Mod: is there an error in the vote count regarding my vote?

[Nero Cain]

Your last vote was on Prama...he died. I doubt you can vote a dead player.

Join me in voting Quadz.

[RedCoyote]

Indeed, why needlessly speculate, RedCoyote? You and quadz were the ones who mentioned "Scum Group 1". Since you just made a dichotomy between guesses having no real weight and havng inside information, should I take that to mean you're needlessly Spreading the Hysteria with that comment, or should I take that to mean you have inside information and know the truth of it?

Oh, no. Don't even go there. There's a definitive line between me and theman in this instance. I didn't start shooting my mouth off about how there was probably an SK or another Vig shot. Someone, implosion, directly asked me for a possible scenario where diddin and theman would both be scum. I said, bluntly, that if there were from multiple factions. Period. pops asked me, directly, why theman's flip would help us. I said, again bluntly, that the role name may give us a clue. Period.

No one asked theman why there were two kills. He just threw it out there.

I don't want to get into a theory discussion about what the most likely explanation is here, because I don't think it's necessary. What I do think is that the way theman framed that statement looked wholly ungenuine, which has been characteristic of his play thus far. I got the exact same vibe from the no lynch comment, Vi. The exact same vibe. Now tell me, what do you think of that?

Well, for one, he didn't shoot democratically. And he did say he wanted to shoot in like 48 hours.

He offered to. That's the point. He let the cat out of the box. No one knew he had the Vig power until he offered that information to us. As if that weren't bad enough, you know, the cherry on top is that he then tells us he's selling his Vig shot to the whims of the public. If it was bad to do this on the first day, it was worse to do this on the second day when there were four less townies to chime in.

Until DBE claimed Doctor for Parama, sure he was Town, but he was doing the next best thing to actively hindering the Town. Why kill that kind of player as scum?

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, but I just really disagree with you on this point as well.

Parama may have been a prick this game, but he was laying out clear suspects and giving us his impression of the game. He wasn't a leader in this game, no, but a game won't run with 12 leaders trying to pull the game in 12 different directions. If you are a townie who, one, is looked upon by the majority of the game as a townie, two, is using your vote rationally, and three, is giving clear reads on the game at at least somewhat regular intervals, then you are a serious threat to scum. Period. Few players had such a standing in this game. Parama was one of them.

It was a scummy shot, but I don't think I have to sell you on that. It was a

really

scummy shot. Do you agree?

You can't draw concrete connections from Town-flips. But I have to question why you're not even considering that.

*shrug*

I feel confident he's scum. Sorry. I mean, what do you want me to say? I'm not going to just cross my fingers and hope he's lynched. I have to work for it. That's what you'd expect me to do, right?

Still, I understand and agree with your point about not drawing connections via a townflip. I only counter by say that, after the first scumflip, all townflips become more informative. Would you agree?

---

>RC gets flak for pushing me hard.
>RC announces he doesn't want my lynch today.

hmmmmmm...

What's Parama? Chopped liver?

I mean, seriously, do you not think the Parama shot was significant? I'm not scum just because I find you scummy.

---

Of course, if there's a nightvig they could just shoot ckd and be done with it. The more I think about it the less I like the idea of sending the treestump to TMH, because if we do loose the dayvig we'd be forced to let him live until day 4, of course the problem with that is that by dealing with the stump separate from TMH we could be leaving it too late to actually do anything about it.

The obvious solution, q, is to rid ourselves of theman right now. Listen, even those that don't support lynching him admit that we'll probably lose the dayvig ability. I have seen nothing but whispers that imply that the Virus or the dayvig abilities are coming back, so I have no real reason to believe they will again.

---

Saint, I no longer have a town read on your slot. Your defense of TMH is completely absurd. His taking of the power role was scummy, his killing a player 13.5 hours prior to saying he would without asking for a claim is even scummier. TMH will die D3. And your defense of him is really throwing me for a loop.

I'm not prepared to go this far. I don't really think Saint's position on theman is indicative of Saint's alignment, but I will say that, prior to this exchange, I wasn't really satisfied with some of Fur's "role directing" stuff earlier in the game. Because of that, I have a leaning scum read on Saint still.

---

I'm sure nobody actually looked at these numbers when deciding who to shoot or whether tmh was scummy, but there you have it.

Even if I take your word for it (I do), why do you need to say this? Why didn't theman say when he shot that he suspected a lot of Parama heat, or, heck, I'll even take it after the fact. Why not point this out? I mean, even you have to admit that you doing this and not the man himself (I guess this happens more often than I thought, heh) is a little suspect, right?

Also I voted for ckd early in the day, for one, and for two, I call bs on some of these people getting "multiple" votes. I stand by my stance that Parama was still generally thought of as town, despite how sketchy it looks in this specific light. If pressed, I don't think people would've wanted Parama as one of their main choices, but here I am speaking for everyone else.

---

Honestly? I don't have a clue who to vote FOR. I haven't the foggiest idea of who's scum, except for thinking TMH and diddin are scummy, and as described above, voting for them isn't a good idea.

Then vote for theman!

I don't understand this stigma. Consider the vigkill lost. Even if it's not, there are too many things that can go wrong. Do not let this opportunity pass, quadz.

[popsofctown]

theman has exhibitted the sort of anti-town play that i just dont expect to flip scum. It'd probably be hard to convince anyone else of this. The Parama shot doesn't make sense as town, scum, or jester to me, so I'm not sure I should count it.

[Saint]

unvote;
vote: redcoyote

active scum lynch > inactive scum lynch, vi

[q21]

Honestly? I don't have a clue who to vote FOR. I haven't the foggiest idea of who's scum, except for thinking TMH and diddin are scummy, and as described above, voting for them isn't a good idea.

So, other than those two no other scum read? Not even partial or slightly leaning scum scumreads? Really?

Of course, if there's a nightvig they could just shoot ckd and be done with it. The more I think about it the less I like the idea of sending the treestump to TMH, because if we do loose the dayvig we'd be forced to let him live until day 4, of course the problem with that is that by dealing with the stump separate from TMH we could be leaving it too late to actually do anything about it.

The obvious solution, q, is to rid ourselves of theman right now. Listen, even those that don't support lynching him admit that we'll probably lose the dayvig ability. I have seen nothing but whispers that imply that the Virus or the dayvig abilities are coming back, so I have no real reason to believe they will again.

So then how do we deal with the treestump? If we lynch TMH now we get rid of the only way that we know exists to get rid of it. Yes, chances are that it'll get taken out/voided but there's also a chance that it won't and I think we need to keep TMH alive for today based on that chance to deal with the treestump tomorrow.

[quadz08]

Honestly? I don't have a clue who to vote FOR. I haven't the foggiest idea of who's scum, except for thinking TMH and diddin are scummy, and as described above, voting for them isn't a good idea.

So, other than those two no other scum read? Not even partial or slightly leaning scum scumreads? Really?

I have scumreads on Nero Cain, Bunny, and Saint still. I could have my vote on any one of the three, but it wouldn't mean anything, and I don't really think any of them is scummier than another. If it's gonna be an issue for me to not my have my vote somewhere, I'll throw it on one of the three of them.

[Saint]

You're suspicious of us because Vi is supicious of you. I see why she is, as you are flailing and AtE. Furthermore, you provide reads without any real solidity to them.

If you are not suspicious of our hydra for that,

what are you suspicious of us for?

Vi defending TMH?
let him hang.
I don't know his alignment whatsoever.

I honestly wouldn't mind you all stopping the whole useless FoS on our slot as scum;
WE AREN'T GOING TO GET MISLYNCHED, REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY OF YOU THERE ARE
OBV TOWN IS OBV TOWN

IF YOU WANT US GONE SO BAD, USE A HIT ON US.

[quadz08]

Ummmmmm... I suspected you long before Vi started posting. Nice try on the misrep, though.

[Saint]

if you suspected me, you must be completely unfamiliar with my play

[quadz08]

And if the fact that I suspected you is new information, you must be completely unfamiliar with the thread.