Mini 1096 - Seinfeld Mafia (Game Over)

[Kdub]

FRANK: My son George isn't smart enough to hatch a scheme like this!
ELAINE: You got that right.
FRANK: What the hell does that mean?
ELAINE: It means whatever the hell you want it to mean.
FRANK: You sayin' you want a piece of me?
ELAINE: I'd drop you like a sack of dirt.
FRANK: You want a piece of me? You got it!

Vote Count

charter (0) -
Katsuki (5) - MagnaofIllusion, MacavityLock, Untrod Tripod, charter, Talitha
The Fonz (0) -
MagnaofIllusion (0) -
Jahudo (0) -
Haschel Cedricson (0) -
Talitha (1) - The Fonz
Untrod Tripod (1) - Katsuki
Kmd4390 (0) -
MacavityLock (0) -
Not Voting (3) - Jahudo, Haschel Cedricson, Kmd4390

10 votes available, 6 votes needed to lynch.

[Jahudo]

Katsuki, claim time. I intend to hammer.

No scum kill yet means we get a free day. LMP was like N1 kill. We should take advantage of this day to get the town's 2nd choice unless he has an awesome claim.

I will admit I was wrong about LMP, and that there has to be a townie or more on the Katsuki wagon so maybe their gut is better in this instance. There's also the information we'll get, plus not having to deal with Kats at a potential lylo sitation would be nice.

[Katsuki]

There's also the information we'll get,

plus not having to deal with Kats at a potential lylo sitation would be nice.

This is a terrible reason to lynch considering there have not been any scum flips thus far.

VT, Babu Bhatt

[Haschel Cedricson]

But you are scum and that's an excellent reason to lynch.

Vote: Katsuki

[Katsuki]

This game.

Lynch MOI for me tomorrow guys. He is scum.

Not sure about any of my other reads. Fonz is most likely town.

[Katsuki]

But you are scum and that's an excellent reason to lynch.

Vote: Katsuki

But that is a very poor reason to quicklynch.

[Katsuki]

BUT SERIOUSLY, I KNOW MY WORDS PROBABLY WON'T STICK, BUT TRUST ME ON MY MOI READ, TOWN!

GOOD LUCK.

[Katsuki]

BUT SERIOUSLY, I KNOW MY WORDS PROBABLY WON'T STICK, BUT TRUST ME ON MY MOI READ, TOWN!

GOOD LUCK.

[Haschel Cedricson]

This game.

Lynch MOI for me tomorrow guys. He is scum.

That's a great idea, lynching the guy who's been making the most sense this entire game.

I'll get right on that*.

I'm also not regretting my Katsuki hammer right here, you were the correct lynch for today.

*I will not actually get on that.

[Katsuki]

This game.

Lynch MOI for me tomorrow guys. He is scum.

That's a great idea, lynching the guy who's been making the most sense this entire game.

I'll get right on that*.

I'm also not regretting my Katsuki hammer right here, you were the correct lynch for today.

*I will not actually get on that.

When does MOI NOT make sense on the surface?

I'd love to call Haschel scum, but that'd be too OMGUS'y

[Kdub]

Vote Count

charter (0) -
Katsuki (6) - MagnaofIllusion, MacavityLock, Untrod Tripod, charter, Talitha, Haschel Cedricson
The Fonz (0) -
MagnaofIllusion (0) -
Jahudo (0) -
Haschel Cedricson (0) -
Talitha (1) - The Fonz
Untrod Tripod (1) - Katsuki
Kmd4390 (0) -
MacavityLock (0) -
Not Voting (2) - Jahudo, Kmd4390

Katsuki has been lynched! She was

Babu Bhatt

(Vanilla Townie)

.

Best of Babu

It is now Day 4.

Vote Count

charter (0) -
The Fonz (0) -
MagnaofIllusion (0) -
Jahudo (0) -
Haschel Cedricson (0) -
Talitha (0) -
Untrod Tripod (0) -
Kmd4390 (0) -
MacavityLock (0) -
Not Voting (9) - charter, The Fonz, MagnaofIllusion, Jahudo, Haschel Cedricson, Talitha, Untrod Tripod, Kmd4390, MacavityLock

9 votes available, 5 votes needed to lynch.

[Jahudo]

Hmm, roll the dice and all that comes up is information.

• Both wagons were town so scum probably sat on their preferred wagon day 2 and maybe didn't make a questionable switch that they couldn't backup in their ISO.
  
• I don't think they would have aggressively pushed their choice once it became clear there was not a third option.
  
• If someone's top suspect was not LMP or Kats before those were the two largest wagons, that person as scum would more likely go along with the group's direction.
  
• Though I don't think liking one of the wagons vs. both would be that telling.

Off to re-read for that stuff.

[charter]

Yeah, reread time for me as well...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Kats I offically hate you. I just want you to know that.

Going back to do a re-read.

Mass-claim at this point since it is clearly LYLO?

[MacavityLock]

Yes, re-reading. Would be fine with a mass-claim.

[Kdub]

Kmd4390, The Fonz, and Untrod Tripod have been prodded.

[Jahudo]

Kmd, Your day 2 play was lazy despite having the top two wagons be on people you didn't want wagoned. Why didn't you push your Talitha case harder? Why didn't you explain why Katsuki looked town to you?

[Kmd4390]

Far too tired to catch up. I know from skimming that I was asked why I chose LMP over Kat. I had town reads on both and LMP claimed vanilla. Kat had yet to claim. Why force one town read to claim when another has claimed vanilla and it's one or the other.

Jahudo, I haven't had the time to make a hard push on anyone. And for the Kat thing, same answer.

Tuesday night, I'll be in a hotel with my girlfriend's laptop. If she doesn't mind being ignored long enough for me to catch up, I'll have a decent post.

[The Fonz]

OK, I'm back from my V/LA.

I'm kinda meh on the massclaim. It's the normal thing, but, y'know, we've gone three nights without a kill, so it's reasonably likely the scum don't have a kill. That drastically reduces the available information, since there's not going to be any trackings to kills etc, and a cop would probably be broken since it would make no-lynch to victory a viable strategy. If scum have safeclaims (and Katsuki indicated yesterday that Kdub has a history of using them) it probably won't nail us a scum.

The biggest benefit is probably time: if we can confirm a player or two, that avoids the possibility of a deadline rush after a convincing claim, I suppose. Ah, ambivalence.

We also need to discuss whether all these re-reads people are doing should be posted before or after claims. If before, then it allows scum to tailor their claims to people's suspicions- if after, to tailor their suspicions to claims. What do people think is the lesser evil?

[Jahudo]

What kind of mafia game doesn't have scum NKs? I guess its possible given there's a 4 person mafia and scum win conditions are typically "50% and nothing can prevent the same". If that's all the case than a mislynch today doesn't automatically give scum a win. They would need a way to break the deadlock.

So I don't really see a compelling argument to massclaim. If scum do have NKs then we have awesome protection/blocking and should not massclaim to out them. If scum dont have NKs then we are most likely looking at an underpowered town with little to gain from massclaim.

I also think that with 4 of 9 players being in the mafia, we already have pretty good odds of not going down to 50%.

Jahudo, I haven't had the time to make a hard push on anyone. And for the Kat thing, same answer.

I'm talking about Day 2 not today.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Far too tired to catch up. I know from skimming that I was asked why I chose LMP over Kat. I had town reads on both and LMP claimed vanilla. Kat had yet to claim. Why force one town read to claim when another has claimed vanilla and it's one or the other.

So in a game with no deadline pressures your solution to two wagons who you both felt were Town was not to push a case on an actual scum candidate?

--

The biggest benefit is probably time: if we can confirm a player or two, that avoids the possibility of a deadline rush after a convincing claim, I suppose. Ah, ambivalence.

I hate to point out the weakness in your statement when it somewhat supports a mass-claim but we have no deadlines so there is no such rush that could happen.

We also need to discuss whether all these re-reads people are doing should be posted before or after claims. If before, then it allows scum to tailor their claims to people's suspicions- if after, to tailor their suspicions to claims. What do people think is the lesser evil?

I’d prefer that the claims be tailored to suspicions not the other way around. Because faking a claim still runs the risk of a counterclaim depending on when it happens. Faking a suspicion doesn’t suffer from that inherent weakness.

--

What kind of mafia game doesn't have scum NKs? I guess its possible given there's a 4 person mafia and scum win conditions are typically "50% and nothing can prevent the same". If that's all the case than a mislynch today doesn't automatically give scum a win. They would need a way to break the deadlock.

Um what? A mislynch today means there are 8 players left – 4 Mafia and 4 Town. Unless there is a Town PR that can kill off the scum at night in then that EXACTLY meets the 50% requirement you mentioned.

Trying to argue that a mislynch today doesn’t likely end the game is scumtastic.

[Untrod Tripod]

picks up prod

I'm kind of embarrassed about pushing two mislynches. Will have to do a careful reread today

[Jahudo]

A mislynch today means there are 8 players left – 4 Mafia and 4 Town. Unless there is a Town PR that can kill off the scum at night in then that EXACTLY meets the 50% requirement you mentioned.

Whatever, I still don't want to massclaim. We have great odds of catching scum. If we succeed then we'd still need a few more days to catch the others. I'd rather they didn't know our power roles now in case it is an awesome doc stopping kills.

[MagnaofIllusion]

A mislynch today means there are 8 players left – 4 Mafia and 4 Town. Unless there is a Town PR that can kill off the scum at night in then that EXACTLY meets the 50% requirement you mentioned.

Whatever, I still don't want to massclaim. We have great odds of catching scum. If we succeed then we'd still need a few more days to catch the others. I'd rather they didn't know our power roles now in case it is an awesome doc stopping kills.

You don't support a mass-claim. That's your opinion. The fact that you keep trying to fall back to the 'protect the Doc' rational when in a 8-4 set-up their is NO WAY the scum could possibly have a Nightkill considering the make-up of Town we know at this juncture is scummy. I'm serious about this. Even with 4 Goons having normal Nightkills would mean Town would have to be almost exclusively PRs. Yet we've already lynched 3 VTs.

The fact that you tried to play off the loss possibilities of a mislynch tonight is scummy.

The fact that if we mislynch today (and mass claiming would further help improve our 'great' chances, IMO) without mass-claiming means there is NO chance for a mass-claim means using that as an excuse is scummy.

[Jahudo]

in a 8-4 set-up their is NO WAY the scum could possibly have a Nightkill considering the make-up of Town we know at this juncture is scummy. I'm serious about this. Even with 4 Goons having normal Nightkills would mean Town would have to be almost exclusively PRs. Yet we've already lynched 3 VTs.

I don't know how you can be so confident that's its the other way. What I know comes from my background here. A) scum are supposed to have a faction kill in every mafia game and B) I ran an 8:4 setup with scum nightkill. Its supposed to happen like that and it can happen.

The fact that you tried to play off the loss possibilities of a mislynch tonight is scummy.

I gave my opinion as an opinion, complete with uncertainties where I looked for the best possible scenario because I'm trying to figure out what I don't know for a fact. But you gave your rebuttal as a statement that you already figured it out and know how to proceed without any open discussion. So you are the one who looks like they know what would happen if we mislynch, which is something only scum would know.

The fact that if we mislynch today (and mass claiming would further help improve our 'great' chances, IMO) without mass-claiming means there is NO chance for a mass-claim means using that as an excuse is scummy.

What are you calling scummy in this second one? Using something as an excuse for what? I don't understand you.

If you are talking about me not putting a warning label on my opinions, then you would sound ridiculous to me. My opinion is that we better be able to lynch scum today, based on what we know, or we deserve to lose as town and I would gladly accept that loss. I know that if we are able to redeem ourselves a little today, and survive to tomorrow, we should not be back to the worst case scenario with all our power roles out there and vulnerable. I would rather have the momentum moving forward, find scum connections and lynch right again.