Mini 1106 - No Exit Mafia

[Ghostlin]

Are you suffering from a concussion or something?

Have I ever said I suspected Dark Horse for hammering?

I'll write up my painfully obvious reasons in a second.

I never said I suspected the hammer for being the hammer either. But you seem to want to put words in my mouth too. The more valid reasons for suspecting vezo was...oh, the fact he was prime suspect 2/3rds of the way through Day 1?

If the hammer is so irrevelant, then why'd you correct me and not use it for a case later? If it is revelant, why are you downplaying it?

I will, however, let you post your case. Let's see if you can manage it without turning it an argument based entirely on insult.

[Darox]

Why Dark Horse's actions at the end of day 1 are scummy: A Documentary

Xalxe is probably scum that wants the town to Nl, which cam cripple town.

Or he's scum trying to defend his buddy.

Either way, he's scum. Too late to switch bws, though.

Ok, Dark Horse thinks Xalxe is scum. Doesn't try to swap [Bad]. Nobodies actually voted for him at this point, so maybe he's just a giant wuss and afraid to act alone, or doesn't think it'll happen in time. Sure.

Two quick votes on Xalxe later and it's obvious Ross isn't going anywhere, having been stalled for a long time:

Might jump on the bw later, right now I don't see it suffice enough to jump on

Why not? You called him total scum. Compared to what you've said against Ross [Bugger all], that's pretty damning talk. So why didn't you want to vote for him and push the wagon? Saying "I don't want to help out until it's already finished in case it doesn't happen" is terrible, and I have a pretty high initial opinion of people and think they're not dumb enough to fall into that poisonous line of thinking.

Which leaves only "stalling the town" as an motive for his actions. By refusing to join a wagon on someone who in his eyes is scum, he's slowing down the town and bringing them closer to the possibility of a no-lynch by deadline. But by coming in and spouting his meaningless future promises instead of voting, he has an out either way it falls.
If the wagon gets momentum, he can swoop in and either place a final vote (And say "Look you guys I came through I'm so townie") or miss the chance but say the next day "I totally meant to jump in you guys, you just got there before I could jump in"
If it falls through, he can say "I told you guys that wagon wasn't going to make it" and act like it's their fault rather than his.

None of this even touches the surface of all his other scum actions which I have already commented on elsewhere.

So,

Vote: Dark Horse

[Darox]

I never said I suspected the hammer for being the hammer either.

But what about this?

[Giving reasons why Vezo is worthy of suspicion as opposed to Dark Horse] Vezo, who was suspected up to the end of day 1, joined the bandwagon and cast the

hammer

.

But you seem to want to put words in my mouth too.

Perhaps you missed it. Here:

[Giving reasons why Vezo is worthy of suspicion as opposed to Dark Horse] Vezo, who was suspected up to the end of day 1, joined the bandwagon and cast the

hammer

.

The more valid reasons for suspecting vezo was...oh, the fact he was prime suspect 2/3rds of the way through Day 1?

And yet you still listed the hammer as a reason. Just in case you forgot, let me show you:

[Giving reasons why Vezo is worthy of suspicion as opposed to Dark Horse] Vezo, who was suspected up to the end of day 1, joined the bandwagon and cast the

hammer

.

If the hammer is so irrevelant [sic], then why'd you correct me

Because you mentioned it here:

[Giving reasons why Vezo is worthy of suspicion as opposed to Dark Horse] Vezo, who was suspected up to the end of day 1, joined the bandwagon and cast the

hammer

.

and not use it for a case later? [Why would I use it for a case?] If it is revelant [sic], why are you downplaying it? [I'm 'downplaying' it because it's a bullshit reason to suspect Vezo over Dark Horse]

I will, however, let you post your case. Let's see if you can manage it without turning it an argument based entirely on insult. [OOPS TOO LATE FOR THAT]

[DrippingGoofball]

Ghostlin and Darox are not buddies.

[AntB]

I must applaud DrippingGoofball on her comment... Obvious statement is obvious.

I'm not liking Darox' general attitude and handling of this, but he is making sense, as is Ghostlin. I think we should look elsewhere for scum.
Darox U-turned the wagon, Ghostlin joined. We're all responsible for going with the wagon and getting Xalxe lynched. Trying to pin it on either Dark Horse or Darox alone is foolish.

[veridis]

Ghostlin and Darox are not buddies.

or are very good buddies....

In other news VOTE: Vezo. Same case as before, vote jumping, lack of defence, wanting to sheep DGB.

[Dark Horse]

Darox, it's because if, for some reason, we revert to the Ross wagon, I couldn't make it during the deadline and the town might be forced to Nl.

Thats also why I didn't vote him immediately

And your case is half-baked: using only two posts is hardly proof

[Darox]

Darox, it's because if, for some reason, we revert to the Ross wagon,

I couldn't make it during the deadline and the town might be forced to Nl.

Thats also why I didn't vote him immediately

Might jump on the bw later, right now I don't see it suffice enough to jump on

Vote: Xalxe

And that's the hammer.

You guys work fast, 4 votes iin a night.

???

And your case is half-baked: using only two posts is hardly proof

You only need one post to make a case if the post is scummy enough.

[vezokpiraka]

vote veridis

You didn't say anything all game. You just coasted on other people's opinion.
Now you are voting me saying you already have a case. Make a PBPA or something scum.

[Dark Horse]

Darox, if you're questioning how I said I wouldn't be around on the deadline, yet I made the hammer, the deadline was 30 hours from when I made the hammer, and I wouldnt have been around during that time.

If it's something else, you'll need to add some more detail

[Darox]

Darox, if you're questioning how I said I wouldn't be around on the deadline, yet I made the hammer, the deadline was 30 hours from when I made the hammer, and I wouldnt have been around during that time.

Unvote, Vote: Xalxe

Better wagon than Ross. Let's do this.

32 hours

, we have plenty of time for 7 votes as long as you don't all start crying and moaning about how little time we have.

Might jump on the bw later, right now I don't see it suffice enough to jump on

Vote: Xalxe

And that's the hammer.

You guys work fast, 4 votes iin a night.

???

[veridis]

Vezo on the other hand just gets worse and worse. 9 posts, 4 different votes, 2 without reasons (the first one I can forgive), and the 2 reasons she's given for her votes (DH being 3rd vote on wagon/bandwagoning, Palmer looking desperately for a lynch anywhere he can) apply just as much to her as to her accused.
VOTE: vezokpiraka

Seems like I already have a case. And if we add in

1. Be reckless, throw around votes like confetti
2. Be defiant, respond to accusations with "lol, no" or "you're all scum"
3. But don't ever defy DGB

I think it's fairly clear what I dislike about your play.

Coming from you the accusation that I'm voting without reason, and the demand that I do a PBPA are laugable. You've thrown down more votes with less reasons than anyone else and have never even indicated you might have a case, let alone done a PBPA.

[Ghostlin]

The case, in a nutshell on Darox:
1) His first set of ISOs are nothing except fawning all over DGB, particularly ISO 1, 2 and 8; Defends her rather insane play on ISO 19.
2) Votes for DGB, Ross, Me in first six votes; yes, one of these is RVS. Did you really think Ross was a VI or are you admitting you were one?
3) ISO 16 is just waffle to insult the players of this game who's play he doesn't like: I think he overused windbag 3x on his personal description of me; he also tries to claim a flavor claim would be useless, considering we were trying to confirm the existence of a hated townie at the time:

"most popular secret agent" is a rolename I would peg as hated townie even without knowledge of the existence of a hated townie. The whole thing is utterly useless in decoding DBG's alignment, and smacks of trying to farm for information to help secure potential future fakeclaims.

...Except if you wanted the absolutely safest fake claim for flavor, you'd just say 'super spy'. This is WIFOMs-que waffle.
4) ISO 22: Why did you vote Xalxe again? Oh, wait, Darox's too cool for reasons.
5) ISO 23 is corrected by ISO 24. I'd mutter scumslip on ISO 23, but that's too obvious. Even though he's teasingly referred himself as scummy on at least more than one occasion on ISO 16. But it doesn't count if he's obviously kidding, right?
6) ISO 25-28: Splits verbal hairs but doesn't even explain why what he's doing isn't hypocritical, espically since he started a wagon on Xalxe WITHOUT posting a reason.
7) ISO 30: Tries to use an inexperience argument to discredit me. (Think of a reverse burden of proficiency here). Yes, it's my first mini-theme, and my third game overall. It shouldn't matter, however.
8) Finally, substance after we pull teeth. He and I have been arguing about five posts. ISO 32 admittedly posts a not bad case about DH. By the way, the previous case he had on DH, the only I could find is a repeat of the stall accusation and the rather dubious accusation on a flavor claim.
9) ISO 33: Still getting his rocks off trying to downplay others accusations by splitting hairs. Really, the most RELEVANT part of the argument as for accusing Vezo was the fact that we had him as primary suspect for 2/3rds of the time Day 1, the fact that he had almost been carried to lynch before we focused on Ross. Who, you did vote for...btw. At the beginning of the day. And later said you didn't support that lynch. Along the same lines as your buddying with DGB. Hrrrrrrmmmmmmm....
10) ISO 34: Actually, have to give Darox credit. He's mined more out of 2 posts and limited reasoning. I'd say it was a fairly decent case except it was like doing a dental to get it.
11) ISO 35: Repeating what's been said and posting ???? isn't as clever as you think it is. You could just simply...point out the contradiction...unless there's something else we're trying to infer?

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: To add to point 11: It could infer anything to post ?????. We presume he's trying to point out the irony, but he's just quoting someone else's posts and posting question marks. He could be posting he doesn't understand. He could be posting his desire to use a Final Fantasy 7 enemy skill. But I'm sure it's irony.

[DrippingGoofball]

This is an awesome case against Darox, the right side of my brain need to confer privately with the left side to decide if the town tell of Darox insulting every player trumps it all.

[AntB]

@Darox

Unvote, Vote: Xalxe

Better wagon than Ross. Let's do this. 32 hours, we have plenty of time for 7 votes as long as you don't all start crying and moaning about how little time we have.

In retrospect, I/we should have [all] asked these questions earlier, but:
Why was it better?
Why didn't you post a reason?

@Dark Horse

Darox, why did you only strawman me for wanting to lynch xalxe?

Why were you so sure his death would be a misslynch?

Where were you stawmanned? I fail to see it.
He also never said anything mislynching.. unless I've gone blind.

[AntB]

EBWODP:
He also never said anything

about

mislynching.. unless I've gone blind.

[Dark Horse]

You've gone blind.

He strawmanned me by quoting my "I'll wait a while" post and then saying I was scum trying to cause a misslynch.

[Darox]

No see, you strawmanned me by implying my arguments were about wanting to push a mislynch on Xalxe. Which I have repeatedly pointed out is not the case.

More bullshit inbound.

[vezokpiraka]

I think Darox is scum.

Lie really scum. Or dumb town. But that's improbable.

[Darox]

Oh boy oh boy oh boy I get to fill the thread with more derision for Ghostlin.

Let's do this.

#1) Are you suggesting there is something wrong with being a silly bugger and playing games during the COMPLETELY SERIOUS RANDOM VOTING STAGE? I sure hope not. Since you don't seem to understand me, allow me to explain. I don't find DGB particularly scummy, and I'm content to let her do whatever crazy stuff she wants in order to further her inquisition. If she does something I don't like, I'll call her on it. I may or may not have a minor case of fame blindness which inspires slightly silly posts and I may or may not be totally aware of it. Such is life when you've got too many cooks in the kitchen.

#2) DGB: Because she's DGB. Ross: Because he was at l-3 and I wanted to kick the hive. Ghostlin: Because you were waffling about totally irrelevant details like the potential for jesters or 4x hated townies, and to all appearances trying to bog down the town in a mire of dreary inaction. Before you try and claim "4x Hated Townie was a legitimate point of discussion" no, no it was not. There is not and will not ever be a four times hated townie in a mini theme that is not also a bastard mod. You were saying a lot of nothing, which has all sorts of fun scum-aligned buzzwords attached to it.

#3) Please read it again. Except, this time, read it. Consider the words properly. They had thought behind them. They are not mindless raving. Think about the general tone of each sentence. If you do this, you will discover many things about my thoughts on both players and discussion topics throughout the entire game.

As for the fake claim, asking DGB to throw out some fake flavour for a 4x hated townie tells us nothing about her alignment. Especially considering she has that ever powerful "No" at her disposal.

#4) Please read the ToT post you just mentioned, where I detail my thoughts on Xalxe and Ross. I shouldn't (And outright refuse to) have to restate my opinions in every post. Just for you though: I pointed out that Xalxe has spent most of his time commenting on game mechanics and chatter rather than on people and his suspicions, and I ranked him worse than Ross. DGB showed she supported switching to Xalxe, so I threw momentum onto the wagon because I preferred Xalxe's death to Ross'.

#5) Mislynch = Mistake Lynch | No Lynch = A Mistake
The point I was trying to get across was that it was bad and going to mess up the lynch.

#6) I'm not being hypocritical. I can say that definitively, because I'm did not and am not doing what I am accusing Dark Horse of doing. I have explained several times what I suspect Dark Horse for.

#7) At this point I was making fun of you and your statements because of how absurd they were getting.

#8) This is why you should learn to parse through the insults and insincere language. There isn't anything groundbreaking in that case, just stuff I have said before tarted up and over-explained.

#9) Making fun of you and pointing out your contradictions. Your counterargument here is not compelling. If I said "I like ponies, sunshine, and rainbows" then later said "Actually I mostly just like ponies" the fact that I mentioned rainbows in the first place is still significant. Also, "We suspect him because we suspected him" isn't compelling either.

#10 & 11) Notice how I made a point of attaching timestamps to all of the quoted posts. I am pointing out the direct contradiction between Dark Horse's words today and his actions yesterday. If you compare the bolded words with the timestamps and related quotes, the contradiction is obvious. [Admittedly I should have bolded "the deadline was 30 hours from when I made the hammer" in the second post]

I was going to say something at the end of all this, but then I changed and forgot. Oh well.

[Dark Horse]

I didn't strawman you darox, yet I noticed that you seemed to be sure that xalxe would be a misslynch.

Care to explain how?

[Darox]

Darox, why did you only strawman me

for

wanting

to

lynch

xalxe?

As has been stated before [Several times], I'm not attacking you for wanting to lynch Xalxe. This statement, right here, misrepresents my grievances against you, and is also known as a straw man.

Look, you're doing it again.

I didn't strawman you darox, yet I noticed that

you

seemed

to be

sure

that

xalxe

would

be a misslynch.

Care to explain how?

Quit it.

[Darox]

P.S. Incorrectly throwing out the straw man accusation against me is also, amusingly, a straw man. But let's not get into that bullshit when we have better fish to fry.

[Dark Horse]

I AM SCUM AND WANT TO CAUSE A MISLYNCH

Ok.

You said this, and haven't answered it, only denied it