Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[RedCoyote]

Fun fact: diddin will flip town if we lynch him.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Okay I have it. Spam away good people. Keeping it this time even if people bother me to pass it. You WILL be losing a townie though. Don't say I didn't warn you.

[nhammen]

Claims

Passed an ability

themanhimself
Bunnylover
DarlaBlueEyes
quadz08
Implosion
popsofctown
Saint
nhammen
q21

Ability was stolen

diddin

Did not pass an ability

WrathChild
Parama
I Am Innocent
StrangerCoug
LynchMePls
curiouskarmadog
Lateralus22
RedCoyote
Nero Cain

Done with that. And nobody has claimed to have passed to either MoI or chk, so none of these abilities went to the void.

I'll let theory arguments and outguessing the Mod go on for a little while when it's of no real consequence to the game, but when you want to test these little schemes over the course of two days (we couldn't lynch diddin yesterday because he had a Vig power, now we can't lynch him because lynching someone else could "confirm" him (which is totally misleading, btw)) and put the town in peril, I'm going to put my foot down.

When q21 raised his argument for killing diddin, i couldn't find fault with it. So I can definitely see what you are saying. Although, even though I previously thought him to be scummy, I can't remember anything in particular he did that warranted that. I guess I need to go iso him. Now, q21's argument also mentioned that we should kill 1 of diddin and tmh, and diddin has the anti-town ability. This is very good logic, if I find diddin to be scummy upon iso. The biggest problem is that if one of them is scum, and we kill the wrong one first, then they will both end up being killed, instead of killing one scum and having one person confirmed town. So finding the right one first is a very useful thing.

You think you can get off scot-free because you're assuming that theman couldn't have stole your power if he was on your team, right? If that's true, it should go both ways, I think, regardless of who initiated the pilfering. It's all speculative anyways.

You've done good to sell everyone on the idea that theman's alignment will confirm you, but the town doesn't have the luxury to sit back and speculate on Day 3 ability swapping theories. We need to lynch scum. Period. I think there's a strong possibility that both you and theman are scum, regardless of ability swapping. I'm not about to start confirming people because we don't have any scumflips yet.

Have you even read the discussion? The confirmation does NOT come from the fact that tmh stole from diddin. It comes from the fact that tmh PASSED HIS ABILITY TO diddin. Holy crap you can't read. Although, I would like both tmh and diddin to ask if this ability is a standard ability.

TMH's BD ability seems like it would override alignment restrictions.

That's exactly what I think. It shouldn't be assumed otherwise.

I don't see why you two think that. The way it was described, it is passed at night, and there is nothing nonstandard about it. So what makes you think it would be nonstandard? This question is to both Wrath and RedCoyote.

If we spent more time scumhunting and less time worrying about repercussions of lynching the "wrong" person, then we'd probably be heading in the right direction.

Ah. But worrying about which person is the wrong person is giving quite a lot of clues as to alignment. For example, if it turns out that tmh is the right person, both Wrath and you look much much more scummy. And Wrath is already at the top of my scumlist even without that.

And since we pretty much know that they can't both be scum (although they could be lying about the ability), I'm more inclined towards a tmh lynch tomorrow. Also, why did you list Saint for the lynch?

No, you have to justify it.

Ummm... what haven't I justified?

There are few compelling lynches other than theman and diddin.

Dara; Wrath; Nero; some people still seem to think Bunny or Saint. Not as few as you would like us to believe.

Moreover, I feel like it's at best a flimsy theory that theman couldn't have Bus Drove diddin if they were the same alignment. It's certainly not strong enough to forgo lynching someone scummy.

Yes, it is as flimsy as the mod's rules post. That is so very very flimsy, aint it? However, just to make you happy, I have asked both diddin and tmh to ask the mod if the ability is standard.

The one problem that occurs to me is that we had two kills last night. Unless someone comes forward with a vig claim we could be letting a SK or second faction a free walk.

Very good point. I think that from MoI's plan, if there is a vig, the person that had (and used) this ability on N1 should claim on D3. If nobody claims vig on D3, then we either have an SK or two scumteams.

Also, why do you have interest in me yet interest for people who are interested in lynching my slot and it flipping town? Just the sheer ignorance of imagining a town flip seems ridiculous. Let's imagine a scum one.

Umm... I don't get what this means. Could you explain it again?

Are you familiar with my play?
Do you realize I go the extra mile as town?
Are you familiar with my vehement scum-meta and easy-readability?

Do you realize that knowing your own meta means that you can fake it. Especially if you have a partner like Vi with you, who would help you fake it if you are scum. I don't think you are doing that, at this point, but I haven't ruled it out. Especialy after comments like this.

I got the virus and passed it to diddin, I think he's extremely scummy and I've brought it up before. One thing I want to mention is that from my interpretation of the redirector role PM, it's not a standard ability.

Why not ask the mod instead of stupidly trying to interpret it yourself? In fact, why haven't you done this as soon as the conversation about this started, if that is what you thought? I would have thought that that is what a townie in your position would do.

RedCoyote, obviously, if you are town, you should advocate the lynches of members of the mafia. I ask you a simple question, then; do you think themanhimself is scum, yes or no? If yes, then why the fuck are you pushing on diddin? How can they

possibly

be scum together if they are passing abilities back and forth? diddin proved that he had the dayvig yesterday; if tmh proves he has it today, then they

cannot both be scum

, and if there's some strange ability that allows them to be, it'll come up eventually.

Ummm... tmh has already revealed the existence of such an ability. What would confirm diddin upon tmh's death is that tmh passed the evil interfering ability to diddin.

So now my question is, why is it that you and IAI are in such a huff to stand up for diddin today? He's slipped, on multiple occasions, that "certain abilities" are "more likely to be scum/town owned".

How is this a slip? The mod has stated that this is not true, so this is more like being stupid that being scum.

He left out important details about how the Vig power works after claiming it. He deliberately put off shooting yesterday for no logical reason. When we pressed him, he said he wanted to get more reactions, but when I asked him for specifics, he refused to answer me.

However, these are good arguments. I will look back at isos next.

[Bunnylover]

@I am Innocent:
No, I did not think of that.
I read over it apparently.
@Implosion: Please read the thread again. TMH said he used his busdriving ability to gain the vig ability meaning that this bypasses the chances of then not been scum together.
Who to say their is only 1 redirecter ability?

[nhammen]

tl;dr version:

@diddin: Ask the mod whether the bus driving ability is standard.
@tmh: Ask the mod whether the bus driving ability is standard. Also, what makes you suspect this ability is nonstandard? Also tell me why, if you suspected it not to be standard, you did not seek clarification from the mod as soon as all of this clearing business was started.

Whoops! From RedCoyotes quoting of Wrath, RedCoyote made it appear that Wrath thought that the BD ability could be passed between members of the same alignment, when that is not what Wrath had stated. I retract my question to Wrath.
I also asked RedCoyote a question, but upon reading, I saw that he already answered why he thought it was nonstandard. Apparently, RedCoyote thought that standard in the sense of this game = normal in the sense of the queues.

@RedCoyote: You said that I hadn't justified something, and I would like to know what I haven't justified. Also, you stated that diddin slipped, and I would like to know why you think this is a slip.
@Saint: I would like some clarification of the post of yours that I quoted.

OK, now RedCoyote has defended tmh. Multiple players have defended diddin. So, a flip could be quite instructive here.

[WrathChild]

OK, so if Darla flips town (like she claims she will) what does that tell us?

[popsofctown]

Nothing. Everyone wants her dead

[WrathChild]

Nothing. Everyone wants her dead

It was a serious question. Shouldn't we be thinking about the information we will get when she's dead?

[Nero Cain]

Nothing. Everyone wants her dead

It was a serious question. Shouldn't we be thinking about the information we will get when she's dead?

Instead of criticizing pops you should do the same and answer the question.

If my vote isn't on you it deserves to be now.

unvote;vote:Wrath

[implosion]

RedCoyote, obviously, if you are town, you should advocate the lynches of members of the mafia. I ask you a simple question, then; do you think themanhimself is scum, yes or no? If yes, then why the fuck are you pushing on diddin? How can they

possibly

be scum together if they are passing abilities back and forth? diddin proved that he had the dayvig yesterday; if tmh proves he has it today, then they

cannot both be scum

, and if there's some strange ability that allows them to be, it'll come up eventually.

Ummm... tmh has already revealed the existence of such an ability. What would confirm diddin upon tmh's death is that tmh passed the evil interfering ability to diddin.

Sorry, I meant any other abilities that could interfere with transferring.

[popsofctown]

I'm always serious. Name one time in this thread when I have not been dead serious.

[StrangerCoug]

My head hurts right now and I think I have something, but I'm going to chime in and reiterate my scum reads of themanhimself, DarlaBlueEyes, and Bunnylover. I want to say at least two of those are scum.

RedCoyote's interaction with diddin and themanhimself does look off, and forced to pick a fourth suspect, I'd say him. He's not as strong as the others, though.

[Saint]

I shouldn't be doing this (RL-wise) but I may as well.
I'm reading through the game so hopefully I don't miss anything. Currently up to Page 10.

The digest of the reads so far looks like this...

SCUM

*EtherealCookie - Posts don't seem genuine and tend to be passive. Nothing that gives me second thoughts about his alignment like several others below him I found more frustratingly scummy.
*RedCoyote - Makes sensible posts but they say tend to say nothing useful. First post looks like it would be made by scum.
*popsofctown - Every now and then he posts something that ISN'T fluff/hyperfocused on playing the setup and looks Town-motivated. It scares me every time. But it's just enough to make me not put him on the autolynch list, even though I'm really very curious about how he apparently put a lot of thought into the game mechanics for some reason but didn't want to look at how they worked in the previous game.
*I Am Innocent - His posts so far definitely give a "skilled" vibe but for the most part they don't actually help.
*WrathChild - Purely reactionary posts and nothing that looks particularly Town.
*TheLonging - Right in the middle of people I'd want to lynch for doing nothing either way for me. But he's quite obnoxious.
*diddin - Has some of the worst reasoning skillz ever but his interest in game balance knowing his alignment seems like something Town would be more likely to do.
*curiouskarmadog - Post 74 looks solidly Town-motivated, but then he leaves and doesn't come back until someone calls his name.
*Nero Cain - Your guess is as good as mine. Slightly Townish.
*Narsis - What he's posted so far seems fairly Townish actually, but it's reserved.
*themanhimself - He reads more like an easy target than scummily motivated.
*quadz - Not extremely convinced yet but his willingness to push Parama on a scumslip in particular looks Townish.
*q21 - Only one post so far, but it was a good one. We need more.
*implosion - just seems obvious all the way around
*Parama - Yet it's like he's going so far out of his way to be scummy.

TOWN

I don't really support the Darla bomb, but with Parama looking Town I'm not sure who else would take it. I believe the idea was to use it to get rid of anti-Town abilities, but at the same time Moai made a good point about keeping those abilities around as long as possible.

I'm always serious. Name one time in this thread when I have not been dead serious.

All of your posts about people relying on the wiki. What do I win.

[popsofctown]

Nothing. You failed to follow instructions, and named several times I haven't been serious rather than one.


I didn't want to read the old game because I have all the rules I need to game the setup in this game's OP. I don't want to see how they gamed the setup in that (very, very different) mini, because I believe I can figure out the dominant strategy for this game without any help.

If I was a different mood when it came up I might've looked at it though, tbh.

[Saint]

I didn't want to read the old game because I have all the rules I need to game the setup in this game's OP. I don't want to see how they gamed the setup in that (very, very different) mini, because I believe I can figure out the dominant strategy for this game without any help.

If I was a different mood when it came up I might've looked at it though, tbh.

I'm more willing to buy vegetarian food than that statement.

[I Am Innocent]

CKD, assuming both you and TMH make it to the end of D2, are you going to send the Tree Stump to him N2?

@ everyone else, please do not send any pro town power roles to TMH. No excuses on his death tomorrow.

@ everyone else, is it more important to get rid of the bus ability tomorrow, or is it better to confirm that it is a standard ability?***

***Seems like the debate is that maybe this is an ability that can be passed between scum. I don't see why any night abilities would be so, esp this. Otherwise they would just pass it back and forth and steal abilities without ever telling us about the bus driving ability even existing.

Does not make sense and I think the doubt that TMH is trying to put in our heads is to take down a current suspicious townie (but future confirmed townie) with him now.

[I Am Innocent]

because I believe I can figure out the dominant strategy for this game without any help.

What have you come up with?

[Saint]

Nothing. You failed to follow instructions, and named several times I haven't been serious rather than one.


I didn't want to read the old game because I have all the rules I need to game the setup in this game's OP. I don't want to see how they gamed the setup in that (very, very different) mini, because I believe I can figure out the dominant strategy for this game without any help.

If I was a different mood when it came up I might've looked at it though, tbh.

you flip flop even with yourself?
i bet WIFOM

really

fucks with you

[Saint]

CKD, assuming both you and TMH make it to the end of D2, are you going to send the Tree Stump to him N2?

@ everyone else, please do not send any pro town power roles to TMH. No excuses on his death tomorrow.

@ everyone else, is it more important to get rid of the bus ability tomorrow, or is it better to confirm that it is a standard ability?***

***Seems like the debate is that maybe this is an ability that can be passed between scum. I don't see why any night abilities would be so, esp this. Otherwise they would just pass it back and forth and steal abilities without ever telling us about the bus driving ability even existing.

Does not make sense and I think the doubt that TMH is trying to put in our heads is to take down a current suspicious townie (but future confirmed townie) with him now.

IF there is a bus driver ability, of course I want it gone
it adds too many variables in for us to understand as a town

HOWEVER, I am not sure that Diddin didn't just pass a pro-town ability to a dead slot.

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD, assuming both you and TMH make it to the end of D2, are you going to send the Tree Stump to him N2?

I can..rather send it to bunny...but i have no problem passing it to whoever the town on a whole wants me too...since this ability is out in the open, we should use it to create links

[StrangerCoug]

I hate to do this twice in close succession, but the problem I complained about regarding not feeling well has gotten worse. I have a fever.

Mod: V/LA again.

[popsofctown]

Why are you guys so sure we will have a daykill tomorrow?

[diddin]

Why are you guys so sure we will have a daykill tomorrow?

I couldn't agree more with this. I was told I have an unknown limited quantity of kills left. I have a feeling tmh might not be willing to eat the virus and with no virus, no daykill. There even may be no virus tomorrow.

I'm giving tmh the Redirector ability tomorrow.

Coyote is acting scummier with every new post. He's misrepping the situation like crazy.

Here's what I say: Whether he is scum or town, we aren't lynching tmh today. So if I'm lynched, it's just an extra mislynch for us! As such, there is no way I'm willing to be lynched or killed today.

[RedCoyote]

Maybe I'll just be a brat in this game. I'm sick of talking to the same people. People that won't even acknowledge that I have a point. It clearly goes both ways. I want theman dead too, guys. I don't know why y'all can't get that through your collective heads. He has the Vig power, okay? I don't want to lose that. diddin has the Bus Driver, okay? I

want

to lose that.

If our long term goal, as a town, is to have one partially confirmed townie on D4 in a 25-player game, then we're aiming the bar a little low. Get that fact through your head.

[popsofctown]

I badly want to see what brat-mode activated Redcoyote looks like