Mini 1094 - Mariposa Peak Mafia - Game Over!

[Thor665]

The Powerrox and Lat claims align. Not willing to rule out a Powerrox as RBer theory yet.

Can anyone see any justification for Lat claiming false to protect scumbuddy singer? I'm leaning towards Lat as the most honest of the claims though I'm not sure how I feel about his need to read up commentary which, this morning, looks a little off..

I do not see it likely for town to be Watcher, Watcher, Jailkeeper, One Shot Neighborizer as that is a pretty stacked town power base. I believe, and think it's generally accepted, that town Watcher is one of the most powerful PRs. I'm currently leaning towards wanting to pick scum from the double Watcher options.

Powerrox's claim works only to support Lat. Note Thor target night 1 which Seraph did not confirm despite watching me night 1 in addition to the obvious block of Lat's power. That means for Seraph to be town that both singer and Powerrox are scum, but I don't think it does much for clarification of the Lat claim.

Did any of the claimed PRs do any breadcrumbing? I would like to see breadcrumbing examples.

[Thor665]

Bleh, above is all stream of consciousness, isn't it? Let's try to clarify and make it concise;

In short - the Power claim shows alignment with the Lat claim but not with the Seraph claim. For Seraph to be town both singer and Powerrox need to be scum. Lat does not appear to have any immediate connections except insomuch as Power's claim supports comments he already said but that is alignment indifferent.

I want breadcrumb quotes from any PR claimed player that can produce them.
I'm currently leaning Lat as the most honest feeling of the PRs.

[Powerrox93]

Breadcrumbing! I wouldn't do that! For me that's the same as talking with help of secret messages. Then there is this rule:

5. No secret messages using size tags or other trickery.

[Thor665]

I wasn't aware breadcrumbing made you so angry. I'll put you down as a 'no' then?

[Seraphim]

I asked the mod, minor breadcrumbing is just fine. However, I only used this once.

Here

I said "I'll be

watch

ing AGar and Powerrox today". Though it wasn't a breadcrumb of target, I planted it there very purposefully.

That means for Seraph to be town that both singer and Powerrox are scum

I'm missing why this is true.

More in a little bit, still trying to comprehend what happened here.

[Powerrox93]

If breadcrumbing doesn't count as talking in secret messages using size tags or other trickery, what does?

[Seraphim]

Talking in secret messages generally involves some sort of code that is almost impossible to pick up on without knowledge that it's there. For example, having everyone post their role PMs through a cypher at the beginning of the game and then posting the key when massclaiming.

Most mods allow breadcrumbing because it's not exactly a secret...it's really soft-claiming a role right out in the open. It's hardly trickery.

[Powerrox93]

If I would post a text that appears to just be random combination of letters/numbers/whatever, it would count as talking in secret message using some kind of trickery, but why is breadcrumbing fully allowed?! It is the very same thing!

[Reckamonic]

That means for Seraph to be town that both singer and Powerrox are scum

I'm missing why this is true.

Because that would mean Powerrox is fakecounterclaiming you as Watcher, and singer lied about her visit to mothrax. They have to both be scum if you're not.

FWIW, the breadcrumb is relaxing me about Seraphim right now, but I can't imagine why a scumteam, who has YET to run into any problems and only needs ONE town vote in order to win the game, would be pulling this weird ass, fucked up claim on the final day. It just doesn't jive, unless the scum really are that dumb.

IMO, we need to lynch between Powerrox & Seraphim today.

[Nachomamma8]

IMO, we need to lynch between Powerrox & Seraphim today.

RECK YOU'RE MAKING ME WANT TO TURN TO DRUGS WHAT IS THIS SHIT

[Reckamonic]

I'm sorry, what?

[Nachomamma8]

We have a confirmed scum in between singersinger and Seraphim regardless of everything else.

Why would you want to lynch OUTSIDE this that just makes me angry.

[Reckamonic]

...because we have TWO WATCHER CLAIMS?

What am I missing, here?

[Thor665]

The fact that Powerrox isn't a claimed Watcher?

Call it a hunch.

[Thor665]

That means for Seraph to be town that both singer and Powerrox are scum

I'm missing why this is true.

Because that would mean Powerrox is fakecounterclaiming you as Watcher, and singer lied about her visit to mothrax. They have to both be scum if you're not.

Also, Powerrox claimed a jailkeep visit of me and Seraph claimed a watch of me - so only one or neither of them can be telling the truth about their night one actions, certainly both can't be truthful. Again, showing scum in that mix.

[Thor665]

Mod: I'll just come out and ask the direct question I really want an answer to - feel free to re-write it into a form you feel comfortable answering that is fair to both sides

My question is - would a Watcher watching a jailkept person receive a result different from watching a person who was not targeted by anyone?

[Nachomamma8]

What am I missing, here?

We have a confirmed scum in between singersinger and Seraphim regardless of everything else.

We have a confirmed scum in between singersinger and Seraphim regardless of everything else.

We have a confirmed scum in between singersinger and Seraphim regardless of everything else.

We have a confirmed scum in between singersinger and Seraphim regardless of everything else.

Thor, jailkeep is typicially just roleblock + protect. The jailkeeping you're thinking of is non-normal.

The beautiful Razor of love and life says that Seraphim is scum. Scum getting guilties to get town players lynched in MyLo is not uncommon, and Lat's counterwatcher claim is supported by being confirmed by Powerrox. If that's the case, I'd be willing to clear singer and Lat of being scum, but not PR.

The only thing that's holding me back from this theory is Reckamonic. Reck knows better not to do crap like this, so I can't help but feel like he's trying to protect singersinger. In this situation, singer/Lat/Reck would be scum. Seraphim gets guilty on singer, Lat protects her with the counterwatcher claim, and Reck tries to get Seraphim lynched in the whole scenario. Lat would be a scum PR that got roleblocked in this case.

I still don't know. I'm not seeing any chance at all of Reck and Seraphim being buddies in this case, though.

@Thor: Missed your question before. No, it looks genuine to me.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote Count

Day 4 Vote Count (#3)

Seraphim

- 1 (singersigner)

singersigner

- 1 (Seraphim)

Not Voting

- 5 (Thor665, Reckamonic, Lateralus22, Powerrox93, Nachomamma8)

With 7 players, it takes 4 to lynch and 4 for a No Lynch. Deadline is scheduled for Saturday, January 29th, 2011 at 1:15 PM Eastern Standard Time.

[/area]

To clarify, as per rule #5, size tags and html trickery are not allowed, however, if it is in normal sized black text and is a breadcrumb, it is allowed, regardless of alignment, role or player.

In answer to Thor's question: A Watcher, as defined by me, is someone who is allowed to target a person and find out if anyone had targeted that person during a night phase. The Watcher would learn the person's name, but not the action nor the alignment of said person.

The type of night action has no bearing on the result given to the Watcher, in other words.

Disclaimer: All the above was said with the fact in mind that there may or may not be a Watcher in this game of any alignment as per mith's Mini Normal guidelines.

[Nachomamma8]

DH, you'd make a good living as a politician.

[Powerrox93]

Wanna have a

REALLY

good explanation of why breadcumbing doesn't fall in under rule 5

[Nachomamma8]

PR, why does breadcrumbing make you so angry...?

[Thor665]

Our QT was very empty. We got neighborized at the start of D2.

OH HAWT DAMN!

Yo, Reck, wanna explain this?

[Thor665]

DH, you'd make a good living as a politician.

Yes, I skipped my previous draft of a post when I noticed the Reck thing, but I noted DH's dance of avoidance. Whatta bum.

Please note that the order of night actions is stated in the rule post right after rule #21, if that's what you were looking for.

[Powerrox93]

PR, why does breadcrumbing make you so angry...?

It's a pretty clear example of talking using trickery, and yet it's banned in the rules

[Thor665]

@PR - You're mistaking the meaning of trickery. Trickery is used in that sentence along with small text - suggesting the ban is on trickery that is *like using small text*. That is generally accepted as a form of trickery that prevents the message from being seen - like, I dunno, posting a picture that has a file name that if you right click it includes relevant game info.

Breadcrumbing is generally accepted as allowable trickery, and is not in the same category as it is out and in the open.

I want all discussion on this topic that isn't immediately game relevant now dropped and/or taken to Mafia Discussion for debate. I want Reck's commentary on my above question.