Mini 1099: The Prisoner Mafia. Game Over.

[SpyreX]

It IS far more likely to me than SK + Survivor + 2 Mafia though.

[Nachomamma8]

Well the first SK role I got was like that, and there WAS a survivor in the game that I could win with.

[SpyreX]

Well the first SK role I got was like that, and there WAS a survivor in the game that I could win with.

And thats common?

Even from within your set?

Because, again, if we want to semantic like that we can go dance.

I'd rather not have it come to it.

[Nachomamma8]

No.

I never pretended this setup was common.

[SpyreX]

There's nothing outlandish about it.

Definitely not enough to warrant "I, the survivor, want to lynch the mafia over the SK."

[Nachomamma8]

Well, let's see. I can win with any faction.

There's one mafia left.
There's one SK left.
Two mafia members have flipped.

Winning with the mafia is unlikely, considering all of their scumhunting is fake and they have two flipped people with connections to them.
Winning with SK is a better possibility, considering they've been legitimately scumhunting and have no connection to flipped scum.
Winning with town is likely if we lynch either the mafia or SK today.

So, if I'm playing to my win condition, looks like lynching mafia is my best option! It makes winning with the SK more likely (mafia won't be able to shoot him), and it makes winning with the town more likely!

[populartajo]

seriously, why is nacho still alive?

i understand the dance between jack-tajo, but nacho is the play today.

[The Rufflig]

RUFFING do the right thing.

Yeah, I didn't think anyone was going to agree with me on Jack.
UNVOTE: VOTE: populartajo

Oh, did you want me to vote Nachomamma8? Let us pretend I don't see anything suspicious of Nachomamma8. State your case with black on white why Nachomamma8 is a better lynch today than populartajo or Jack. I'd appreciate it if everyone else waits for SpyreX's answer before jumping in.

---------------------------------------------

seriously, why is nacho still alive?

I'm not willing to hammer Nachomamma8 right now because I think you or Jack stand a better chance of flipping scum. Nachomamma8 stated a rather obvious point that everyone seems to be missing, but that I happen to believe in. The sk could be legitamately scum hunting. So, from my point of view we have a 1 in 2 chance of lynching the last mafia with you or Jack vs a 1 in 4 chance of hitting the sk by lynching you, Jack, SpyreX or Nachomamma8. (If camn was an unconfirmed mason then I don't think Fate would have made that outrageous bet). Also, I trust that number 2 is in this game as I don't think the mod is lying to us about him. You're welcome to address any of these points after SpyreX makes his case -- either that or try and get Jack to hammer Nachomamma8.

[SpyreX]

God in heaven I'm not sure why getting a survivor lynched when the numbers don't add up is so hard.

Lets try this again:

There were two deaths last night. Neither were claimed.

So, either the mafia is dead entirely and it was a 2/1/1 setup OR there is a mafia and a SK.

In the latter, Nacho would be lying about being a survivor and need be lynched.

In the former, Nacho can be lynched.

Further, the idea of "Lynch mafia, woo SK" as a survivor when the common SK win condition would not allow for a joint win bespeaks the most simple of facts: that the survivor part is not his win condition.

[SpyreX]

OR to put it even more simply:

In the "worst" case scenario lynching Nacho makes tomorrow not lylo.

[SpyreX]

AHA BUT ITS MYLO

FFF SHUT IT

[Nachomamma8]

Why does mafia + SK existing automatically make me a liar? Do you honestly believe that the setup I posted earlier is plausible, but 3Maf+SK+Survivor isn't? You were fine with the balance of it when Rufflig claimed bomb, so I don't really get why you changed opinions after revoting me for a different reason.

Then, there's the win condition thing. I don't understand WHY you keep referring to "common SK win conditions", and it's terrible that we even have to have this discussion. All win conditions are NOT the same. This is a specific game, meaning that we have specific win conditions. I look at my role PM and I get a pretty specific win condition that implies I can win with whoever I want to. You can't tell me my win condition is invalid because you presumably have no evidence, unless Zorblag stuck the SK win condition in the townie role PM. I don't understand why you would apply "the common SK win condition" to every game you're in because win conditions CAN be different. If you WANT to claim SK with the win condition "kill them all", go ahead, but otherwise this argument is terrible.

Finally, the worst case scenario for lynching me if I'm telling the truth is LyLo. 2 scum still alive, and 1 town player still alive. And I'm sure you and tajo would make sure that the town wouldn't that dilemma. If scum is lynched today, though, it'll actually be MyLo, 4-1 with a DAMN good idea of who's the remaining scum.

[The Rufflig]

^^
I don't think I need to add to that.

[SpyreX]

Finally, the worst case scenario for lynching me if I'm telling the truth is LyLo. 2 scum still alive, and 1 town player still alive. And I'm sure you and tajo would make sure that the town wouldn't that dilemma. If scum is lynched today, though, it'll actually be MyLo, 4-1 with a DAMN good idea of who's the remaining scum.

THAT IS NOT A SCENARIO

JESUS

That would mean 3 scum, SK and Survivor.

That is not the case. I will eat all the hats and not be sad if we lose because of that because balance actually exists.

Further, in said scenario, we've already lost because you'll just hump whomever votes tomorrow.

And this new "Ohh my win conditions" blah blah NO.

Because, if that were the case in your mystical scum, sk, survivor its even MORE unbalanced under the guise that we could have been in lylo ohh...D2? (Mislynch, Scum kills SK, SK kills town).

[camn]

So, either the mafia is dead entirely and it was a 2/1/1 setup OR there is a mafia and a SK.

In the latter, Nacho would be lying about being a survivor and need be lynched.

In the former, Nacho can be lynched.

+1

[populartajo]

tl dr,

we need to hit a killling faction today, jack is scum and nacho is the sk.

tajo is town btw but i understand the jack-tajo dilemma since ive been really lazy and what not.

but nacho should have died years ago.

@ruffig, seriously do you think im scummier than nacho?

[populartajo]

seriously, why is nacho still alive?

I'm not willing to hammer Nachomamma8 right now because I think you or Jack stand a better chance of flipping scum. Nachomamma8 stated a rather obvious point that everyone seems to be missing, but that I happen to believe in. The sk could be legitamately scum hunting. So, from my point of view we have a 1 in 2 chance of lynching the last mafia with you or Jack vs a 1 in 4 chance of hitting the sk by lynching you, Jack, SpyreX or Nachomamma8. (If camn was an unconfirmed mason then I don't think Fate would have made that outrageous bet). Also, I trust that number 2 is in this game as I don't think the mod is lying to us about him. You're welcome to address any of these points after SpyreX makes his case -- either that or try and get Jack to hammer Nachomamma8.

the only way to win this is by getting rid of a killing faction so that we can still have room to fuck it up tomorrow, so we need to hit the likely scum left or the sk left. The scum left is between jack and me, since camn is uncounterclaimed mason, spy and you are pretty clear town, jack and me have been a bunch of lazy bastards, and nacho is the "survivor" that doesnt fit in a 3 scum-1 sk most likely scenario.

so yeah

[Nachomamma8]

Point about the setup taken.

I don't see why I'm likeliest SK though, but I'll post something on that tomorrow. Too tired now.

[camn]

Point about the setup taken.

I don't see why I'm likeliest SK though, but I'll post something on that tomorrow. Too tired now.

Are you admitting that you lied about being a survivor for some OTHER reason? Other than you being the SK?

[Jack]

Yeah, nacho is the lynch I think.

[The Rufflig]

@ruffig, seriously do you think im scummier than nacho?

Yes, I did. If we had lynched number 2 and rover or number 2 and the supervisor then I'd feel that there were no more mafia left and go sk hunting. However, we haven't lynched number 2. I think he is still around. My process of elimination narrows the last mafia down to you or Jack with a decent case on either of you. The case on Nachomamma8 boiled down to outguessing the mod. So, yes, I was favoring you over Nachomamma8. However, I've caught an assumption that I made which I probably shouldn't have.

I have been assuming that number 2 is still aligned with the other mafia roles. However, if the role of number 2 was combined with a third party role such as survivor or sk (thanks SpyreX), a lot of these sticky game balance questions would be resolved. Of course, now I'm the one falling into the outguessing the mod trap. My concern now is why did Nachomamma8 claim survivor? From the reactions from those of you who have played with a survivor before, it seems like survivor is a terrible claim to make especially with a sk running about.

[Zorblag]

Vote Count 3.5

Nachomamma8: 3: populartajo (1), Camn (2), SpyreX (5)
populartajo: 2: Nachomamma8 (7), The Rufflig (8)

Not Voting: Jack

With 6 players alive it takes 4 votes to lynch. Currently Nachomamma8 would be lynched at deadline. Deadline is 3:00 PM EST/12:00 PM PST on Wednesday, January 19th. Countdown timer.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[SpyreX]

HULK SMASH

Good god lets make this happen.

[Jack]

vote:nacho

This game slipped my mind for a bit.

[Nachomamma8]

Goddammit.