Mini 1111: Wait Your Turn, Tex! (GAME OVER)

[Fate]

Hoopla I just outlined the ACTUAL intention behind ALL of my play this time.

The only time I play to the 'YOU CANT READ ME GAMBIT MASTAH" is when I'm town in a closed-setup and I DONT want scum to be able to read me and my role.

[Fate]

P.S. I'm not sure what to make of how Fate-orientated Hoopla has been.

(She has hidden feelings of love and adoration for me which has tried to stuff down with her mechanically thinking and way of lie, as her emotions interfere with that. But it still seeps out.)

(She especially loves all my gambits, seeing as she aspires to the same with her only notable one being PGO as vengeful townie which was such an obvious self-vote that who ever lost to that was a terrible player and that's probably why I don't remember their name)

[Hoopla]

Mind sharing your epiphany?

P.S. including me in that list is unlikely to get me to help.

I think PokerFace's wagon ballooned too quickly for it to happen without scum influence somewhere on that wagon, and unless scum are being idiots, they shouldn't be recklessly bussing like that on Day 1. The other wagons competing with Pokerface until then never really developed as viable candidates, and even now, still haven't reached any sort of tipping point - I'd expect if we managed to get scum wagoned so well, there'd be more fight from the other wagons on the peripheral.

The Xalxe wagon is what I expect a scum wagon to look like in this game - collecting a couple of votes despite higher than average amounts of suspicion wafting from the slot, but not really going anywhere. That says to me, he is seen as scummy, but isn't being punished for it votes-wise, meaning scum might not have their hand in this wagon. These thoughts are a lot more clear in my head and I appologise for my lack of eloquence, but I really think Xalxe is the right play now.

I'm less clear on Fate now, as I mentioned just before. Though it might not be worthwhile for scum to bus hard, I'd expect they wouldn't ignore each other completely, and Scot's vote on Xalxe looks very much like early distancing. It's scummy because it's done at a time where Xalxe's wagon was never really the big favourite for the noose, making the bus safer - less likely to produce a lynch, but still heavy suspicion to gain town points. The rest of my scumreads are mostly from process of elimination via the way of my town reads, and where I expect scum to be on the wagons we've had so far. Sudo is gut admittedly - he has been far too passive and is lacking curiosity. I don't think he is active lurking, but I think he is coasting.

[Hoopla]

P.S. I'm not sure what to make of how Fate-orientated Hoopla has been.

As opposed to how nobody-oriented you've been.

You might have a point though, I've probably cluttered the thread too much with trying to figure out Fate's alignment, but I'm just worried about mislynching today, because it is so much more important than usual. I feel like we need to have at least 2 scum down by the start of D2 to have a chance, but I have severe doubts we can do it with two vig shots on N1.

I just hope we get lucky and end up in a 2:3 or 2:4 - something like that, with at least one or two N2 vigs. The good thing about tomorrow is, a massclaim forces scum to pick which pool they want to be in, and we know how many scum are in each pool, because we know the amount of PR's. This might be a very handy way to narrow down scumpartners tomorrow.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Hmm. Your first 2 paragraphs here (preview: in #177) suggest a distribution of scum among the 2 wagons that doesn't seem to mesh with your town reads, i.e. 4/6 on Pokerfacewagon belong to your town list and Xalxe's more suspicious than the amount of votes indicate but none of the voters are on your town list and you call out scotmany's vote as being distancing.

Personally I don't like this type of argumentation which essentially assumes that the scum group as a whole acts predictably (as opposed to arguments that deal with individuals), but I can't resist a bigger wagon.

Unvote, vote: Xalxe

[Hoopla]

Hmm. Your first 2 paragraphs here (preview: in #177) suggest a distribution of scum among the 2 wagons that doesn't seem to mesh with your town reads, i.e. 4/6 on Pokerfacewagon belong to your town list and Xalxe's more suspicious than the amount of votes indicate but none of the voters are on your town list and you call out scotmany's vote as being distancing.

Personally I don't like this type of argumentation which essentially assumes that the scum group as a whole acts predictably (as opposed to arguments that deal with individuals), but I can't resist a bigger wagon.

Unvote, vote: Xalxe

Yeah, I can see what you are saying. I think the take-away point from my post was that, if PokerFace is scum, I'd expect other wagons to be pushed a lot harder, and his not to have grown so quickly. I know my reads won't be 100% accurate, and I have somebody wrong somewhere, but the way the wagons developed seems to indicate PF town - I suppose a lot of it is gut and trying to predict scum's attitudes toward the game, but I think I have a pretty good vibe for this sort of thing, because I've read so many minis. Explaining it and convincing people is always hardest. It is all about the atmosphere. Too many people were just sitting back and letting the Pokerface wagon happen.

Thanks for joining, though.

[AGar]

@Fate

I guess I'm just missing it then. I don't think I'm dumbing it down, but apparently I'm missing some point that's key to your cases.

ESPECIALLY if Poker flips scum, whom, by the way, you've neglected to comment on.

As always, I refuse to start trying to crucify someone as scum who isn't maintaining activity in a game. He's just not posting. Xalxe, like I pointed out, hopped behind UA, and technically Sudo, doing nothing and trying to give credit to Sudo for also doing nothing. It was really, really off to me.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

It's depressing how effective lurking your way out of a wagon is.

[Fate]

But he can't lurk his way out of bullets!

/grin

[scotmany12]

Looks like my computer is functional again. Hopefully it stays that way. I will get caught up very soon.

[UltimaAvalon]

Why is everyone jumping off the PokerFace-Lurker-Scum wagon?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Hoopla's confirmation bias plus his inactivity dousing the fires of our suspicions.

[Xalxe]

Dear other Town players,

My name is Xalxe, and today I’d like to share with you some very compelling reasons why you should be voting Fate today.

Thanks.

I'm trying not to die N1 this game.

Begins the game (essentially) by softclaiming even-night vig. We don’t want scum to have more info on our roles; if they manage to figure out all the odd-nights, they all die. Good job trying to appear pro-town though.

Katsuki's "ZOMG VIG FATE" reads forced as hell. Like "well shit I GOTTA fakekill Fate or else he'll get an off-meta read on me."


OH THE IRONY.

Unvote:
Vote: Katsuki

Or, possibly, it’s still the RVS and we’re kinda still screwing around. I’ve fakekilled people early on too.

Fritzler you will be referred to as tanstalas until you become relevant/change your avatar.

Thanks for playing.

I don’t get it. Just a way to either piss off Fritzler (and why would this help town?) or buddy up to those who don’t like him.

And I'm pretty sure we can get Hoopla on here too >_>

See, this sounds like you’re making an alliance. Or possibly, you don’t have to, because Hoopla is scum with you, and this is a sly way to say ZOMG HOOPLA THIS IS OUR NEW WAGON!

(FTR I only wanted Katsuki dead because as town he'll vig me like a moron, and as scum he'll vig me and say "LULZMETA" so either way I'm dead tonight. /tear)

Not to get all Zen on you here, but the life of one townie is insignificant compared to the victory of the town as a whole.

If Pokerface is scum, I think it's quite likely Xalxe is town, though.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Pokerface

Xalxe can be vigged tonight.

That's as far I got

Dude, you just admitted that you aren’t reading the game thoroughly. Why the hell should I believe that you know what you’re talking about at this point?

At least Hoopla knows and can appreaciate the genius of my scumplay.

I’m sorry, would you like to claim scum with Hoopla now, or shall we wait until you get lynched?

I’m not quoting Iso #25 because it’s out of game bullshit. Fate’s trying to use another game to build a case against Katsuki. That says to me that you don’t have enough evidence here to build one.

And YES I'm calling your play shit. Your reads in this game (if you are town, hopefully for your sake yo aren't) are all based around Fate-scum-gut-tunnel and that's stupid. Your play in Magician's LOST US the game because you failed to act even a SEMBLANCE of town enough to avoid getting lynched and didn't claim vital info. THATS WHY I can't read you. I can't read terrible players that DELIBERATELY OR NOT make themselves hard to read.

And now you insult players because you don’t have anything else with which to build a case on. You’ve resorted to petty insults and caps lawk rage. I wish this game had a dayvig.

Looks like my gambit is working already Hoops.

Heheheheheh

I think you're retroactively considering your play a gambit to cover your tracks, but whatever. I don't really care.

(why would you say this >_>)

So Hoopla can distance herself from you when you flip scum.

So in conclusion: I apologize for my suboptimal play this game, I should've done some math with the night actions rather than saying "ah itll all sort itself out" to try and predict the importance of my role. I'm usually much better at optimizing day play to match my role (aka drawing the kill as bulletproof and vanilla, etc.), but this game I didn't give it any thought, and I'm sorry.

So to the townmembers who suspect me: Give me tonight. The next night feel free to kill me if suspicion still lingers, but at the very least then I can guarantee you another shot that HAS to be claimed (and therefore has to be plausible and appear town motivated at the least) will be fired and I will be doing my best to hit scum.

Thanks,
~Fate

[aussieaccent] Look here, it’s a rare Appeal To Emotion! Crikey, I never thought I’d see one in the wild. Look at its distinctive scumtells; it’s practically dripping with blood! Now, if you at home ever see one of these, it’s very dangerous. It’s best to lynch it on sight. Be careful out there! [/aussieaccent]

In conclusion:

Fate is scum. Let’s get this lynch started.

[PokerFace]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2723031
hoopla said my logic earlier was sheeping. Back then only votes on xalxe were from scot and hoops. scot voted xalxe because he didn't like his policy voting and hoops voted him then for:

And again? Really?

If I'd voted someone else, you'd have definitely have voted me then. You're worried about appearing OMGUSy.

As I voted xalxe for FOSing earlier because it seemed like he was trying to avoid making an impact on the game i don't see how I was sheeping. only thing i had in common with hoops there was commenting on omgus and I think my thoughts may have ran together there.

I had the choice of self-hammering simply to preserve my meta, and now I have the choice to do so by putting myself at L-1

Instead I'm going to

Vote: PokerFace

Longest post in the game that doesn't use quote pyramids,

blatantly tries to end the RVS

, and manages to not really say anything.

Ahh but in voting me for a reason, you are also blatantly trying to end the RVS

Translation: No U

Your wagon is gone so start your meta

That's not how meta works

Unvote, Vote: UA

lol omgus

UA gave omgus as a reason to keep voting me. I don't really consider that a scum tell early on in the game especially since I was primarily trying to get fun out of his stitch but aparently he didn't want to wait to try it later, oh well. I did find it interesting that his logic was rather counter intuitive.

@Fate

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2723512
Fate a word of advice such a meta is why people think you are dumb or dislike you. Have you ever stopped to consider what effects your actions may have on the other players? If you are town and playing anti-town the true town players will want to get rid of you and or focus on you instead of finding scum. Wouldn't it be better if you hunted scum and didn't throw off the reads of others? That way entire town would find scum sooner. Do you disagree?

Something odd here
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2723686
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2723691
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2723701
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2723804
When did Fritz say Fate was scum? Last I checked Agar said that. Did you confuse your read and avy at the same time? That doesn't make sence since you should know what you said. I am starting to wonder if either fritz is not paying attention to the game and or he just answered that way to help agar or distance from fate. Fritz what are your real reads of Fate and Agar?

Katsuki pointed out where others may or may not have claimed. I think Kat is town as a scum him wouldn't have pointed it in game he'd simply kill fate or have one of his buddies do it since i imagine scums want to eliminate the even vigs asap. Don't think scum kat would waste time saying it unless he really thought it was reason to think fate is scum

I'm starting to think Fate is scum. His desire to get rid of kats is practically policy since he thinks kats will get rid of him. I don't like fate's stance
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p2724100
that could be telling of one of his buddies especially since hoopla said

For what it's worth, the casual role-info dropping should probably cease, because we want as many N2 vigs alive for tomorrow to give us good chances of winning the game. Telegraphing who's even and who's odd to scum is a bad move. Unless of course this is your subtle way of wifom'ing the scums, in which case, continue (don't really).

and followed that up with:

Entering this game, I was really hoping I'd draw scum or odd-night-vig, just so I was (nearly) guaranteed to get to kill someone

- I suspect someone like Fate was operating under the same mentality. His earlier postings of worrying about being killed N1 seem very genuine and though scum don't want to die, it seems more fitting with being an N2 vig, as scum would still get to fire a bullet N1 anyway.

Although he's improving his scumgame, the frenzied and passionate defenses are difficult to fake. These posts are riddled with self-meta evaluations and hollow wifom defenses - Fate would be less inclined to defend himself in such a manner as scum, because it is something that naturally seems scummy. This looks like pure emotion which is why he isn't bound by such worries. I'm pretty confident he is an N2 vig, in which case, I hope nobody targets him and we force mafia to waste a bullet on him, if they want one less threat on N2.

So first you say we shouldn't claim or wifom it and then you totatally just did one of those things and pointed to the scum to off Fate? And I thought you said Fate was town?

Looks like my gambit is working already Hoops.

Heheheheheh

I think you're retroactively considering your play a gambit to

cover your tracks,

but whatever. I don't really care.

If he was town he wouldn't need to cover his tracks

Because it would be easier for me to help convince the town you're town if you didn't do stuff like "HAYY I'M DOING GAMBIT LOLLLLLL, LOOK AT MEEEE" - my goal here is to convince the townies not to shoot you, forcing scum to waste a bullet on you (if they too believe you're a N2 vig), but I doubt I'm going to get that to happen. I think it's your fault though for making this so difficult.

I don't buy any of this^
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2724412
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2724426
Sudo makes a good case on fate in light of what UA said

Yay fritz is confusing and I am leaning scum on hoopla and Fate. feel stronger about them than i did about xaixe earlier.

unvote, vote: hoopla

I am at post 164 I'll read the rest later.

[Xalxe]

Haha basically the same points on Fate as me. Good job. However, I'd suggest a Fatelynch and Hoopla vig.

Also, my name? X as in Xylophone
A as in Apple
L as in Lemon
X as in Xalxe
and E as in Elephant.

Not sure how you guys are getting these odd variations.

[Mr. Flay]

Sixth Vote Count of Day One

Xalxe - 5 (scotmany12, AGar, Hoopla, Fate, Cogito Ergo Sum)
PokerFace - 3 (UltimaAvalon, Fritzler, chamber)
Fate - 3 (Katsuki, Xalxe, Sudo_Nym)
Hoopla - 1 (PokerFace)

Not Voting: nobody!

With twelve alive, seven votes will be needed to lynch.

chamber has been prodded.

[Fritzler]

Pokerface, I am leaning SCUM SCUM SCUM on Fate, and would rather lynch fate than Xalxe by far.

[Fritzler]

oh, also

unvote, vote: Fate

[Fate]

So Xalxe does a PBPA and twists everyone of my posts into having scum intent, and his only OTHER apparent scumread is "Hoopla is scum with you because obvious".

All I can say is "lolscum"

[AGar]

Xalxe-Pokerface connection duly noted.

I'm happy with lynching either one of them today.

CES - I'd rather let one of the vig bullets handle PF if he were to lurk his way out of a wagon.

[AGar]

Note: I'd prefer to lynch Xalxe, as I'm more confident in said read than PokerFace at the moment.

[Hoopla]

that could be telling of one of his buddies especially since hoopla said

For what it's worth, the casual role-info dropping should probably cease, because we want as many N2 vigs alive for tomorrow to give us good chances of winning the game. Telegraphing who's even and who's odd to scum is a bad move. Unless of course this is your subtle way of wifom'ing the scums, in which case, continue (don't really).

and followed that up with:

Entering this game, I was really hoping I'd draw scum or odd-night-vig, just so I was (nearly) guaranteed to get to kill someone

So first you say we shouldn't claim or wifom it and then you totatally just did one of those things and pointed to the scum to off Fate? And I thought you said Fate was town?

I have severe doubts the town will ever not suspect Fate, so by convincing scum he is an N2 vig, I am solving the problem for us without wasting the lynch. The Fate wagon still sucks, and is ridiculously forced. Xalxe has no idea how to read Fate, and has just rattled off a giant post assigning generic tells to a non-generic player. He is the go-to wagon for scum.

[Katsuki]

Brain is currently shot writing essays post tomorrow if I have time.

Activity on my part may be lower than normal this weekend.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

So no posts then, Katsuki?

Hoopls, what do you think of Pokerface-Xalxe now?

[chamber]

Back, catching up, sorry, ect.