Mini 1111: Wait Your Turn, Tex! (GAME OVER)

[Katsuki]

Fate's pretty obviously town, and I know a dumb townie is going to shoot Fate N1 - but lets please not waste more than one bullet (preferably none, but I'm realistic) on him tonight.

I think you and I are seeing different things here.

What exactly says he's town?

[Fate]

I don't need to take that game at ALL, its ust another example.

In this game, and THIS GAME ALONE, you are tunneling like an idiot and have no apparent reads on the rest of the game.

Y

ou don't even MENTION how you feel about Hoopla's defending me, and her theories on what scum woud do

Ninja, but what does that say about HOOPLA? She says I'm town because I'm transparently town like I ALWAYS AM, and this game a couple of scumchat buddies+SCUM+your dumb metatunnel have condescend into this horseshit wagon on me.
You don't even COMMENT on your fellow wagonbuddies who are scummy as sweet fuck all.

SO YES, THIS GAME, INDEPENDENT OF ALL OTHER GAMES, YOUR PLAY IS TERRIBLE.

MY FLIP WILL JUSTIFY THAT. AND I HOPE WHOEVER SAID THEY WERE VIGGING YOU TONIGHT FOLLOWS THROUGH SO YOU DONT GET ANOTHER CHANCE TO BLOW THIS GAME.

[Hoopla]

Fate's pretty obviously town, and I know a dumb townie is going to shoot Fate N1 - but lets please not waste more than one bullet (preferably none, but I'm realistic) on him tonight.

I think you and I are seeing different things here.

What exactly says he's town?

Entering this game, I was really hoping I'd draw scum or odd-night-vig, just so I was (nearly) guaranteed to get to kill someone - I suspect someone like Fate was operating under the same mentality. His earlier postings of worrying about being killed N1 seem very genuine and though scum don't want to die, it seems more fitting with being an N2 vig, as scum would still get to fire a bullet N1 anyway.

Although he's improving his scumgame, the frenzied and passionate defenses are difficult to fake. These posts are riddled with self-meta evaluations and hollow wifom defenses - Fate would be less inclined to defend himself in such a manner as scum, because it is something that naturally seems scummy. This looks like pure emotion which is why he isn't bound by such worries. I'm pretty confident he is an N2 vig, in which case, I hope nobody targets him and we force mafia to waste a bullet on him, if they want one less threat on N2.

[Fate]

Looks like my gambit is working already Hoops.

Heheheheheh

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

this game a couple of scumchat buddies

Hey, hey, it's clearly a couple of unicorn buddies.

I can't read angry Fate; it doesn't help that I haven't read a game with Fate as scum.

[Fate]

CES isn't buddying up to me (not that he would back to back as scum), but these are good signs >_>

[Hoopla]

Looks like my gambit is working already Hoops.

Heheheheheh

I think you're retroactively considering your play a gambit to cover your tracks, but whatever. I don't really care.

[Fritzler]

Also I just realized Fritzler's vote is on POKERFACE whilst calling me "probscum."

Which means I'm scum "real-claiming" what I'd do as scum this game (busbusbusbus) and he's voting with me?

Now THATS a stupid stance to take.

And YES I'm calling your play shit. Your reads in this game (if you are town, hopefully for your sake yo aren't) are all based around Fate-scum-gut-tunnel and that's stupid. Your play in Magician's LOST US the game because you failed to act even a SEMBLANCE of town enough to avoid getting lynched and didn't claim vital info. THATS WHY I can't read you. I can't read terrible players that DELIBERATELY OR NOT make themselves hard to read.

In a game where scum are 33% of the population I would definitely be voting for my fellow scum. Not doing that would be an even stupider than what I normally attribute to you.

[Fate]

That has NOTHING to do with WHY you think (or 'imply' of course) that AGar is town(ier) than me.

Or WHY THE HELL you quoted a post I made toward him.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

not that he would back to back as scum

I totally would; if I pride myself on anything, it's not shying away from anything as scum.

[Fate]

Looks like my gambit is working already Hoops.

Heheheheheh

I think you're retroactively considering your play a gambit to cover your tracks, but whatever. I don't really care.

(why would you say this >_>)

[Hoopla]

Because it would be easier for me to help convince the town you're town if you didn't do stuff like "HAYY I'M DOING GAMBIT LOLLLLLL, LOOK AT MEEEE" - my goal here is to convince the townies not to shoot you, forcing scum to waste a bullet on you (if they too believe you're a N2 vig), but I doubt I'm going to get that to happen. I think it's your fault though for making this so difficult.

[Fate]

You're probably right.

I didn't put much thought into the mathematics behind the set-up, that and the earlier post restriction I gave myself makes this already one of the games that I regret my play in.

[Katsuki]

I would be inclined to agree with the even-night vig read, if not for the fact that the way he has played it this far (re: my earlier post). It leads me to think that rather, he is fake-claiming even-night vig. Especially with all his also not-so-subtle "cover-ups" (as also pointed out).

However, while I can see the benefits of letting fate live, I'd rather go with a strong read of mine.
I will say that I have tunneled on fate slightly, if only because I am rather certain he is scum. However, considering the big picture, what you say does make some sense.

What do you think are the benefits of letting a possibly fake-claiming scum live over lynching?
Do you believe scum will use all of their shots N1?

As for emotions, I find his play is often similar to mine, which is that at times we post based purely on emotion rather than logic. However, I have found that to be off as well, hence my gut going off quite strongly and the tunneling. There is an artificial feel to his play overall.

To be honest, I am having a hard time getting over what I perceive is fake-claiming and acts trying to garner pity, a la AtE.

P-Edit: Ninja posts x10

[Katsuki]

Re: Hoopla #127

[Fate]

But that's just the thing, why would I as scum, FORCE myself into a fakeclaim of even night vig? A claim that would NOT ALLOW ME TO SHOOT TONIGHT EVEN THOUGH A GOOD NUMBER OF PEOPLE WANT ME DEAD?

Since you're going around bragging about how you read me as gutscum in Kitoari's game... DID YOU NOT SEE THAT GAME WHEREI FUCKING REFUSED TO CLAIM DURING MASSCLAIM AS SCUM JUST SO I WOULD HAVE MORE OPTIONS?

Like I said Katsuki, will you PROMISE not to say one more WORD of "Fate meta" in any more of our games once I flip?

[Fate]

Oh and look who is online not trying to further justify his BS vote: its UltimaAvalonz

[Katsuki]

I'll comment after hoopla responds.

But the way I see it is that it'd be easy to claim an overlapping kill.

[UltimaAvalon]

Fate, some of us spend several hours making posts of decent quality, instead of yelling , double/triple posting, and saying stupid shit like "lol gambitz"

Kindly shut the fuck up and let me post kthx

[Hoopla]

What do you think are the benefits of letting a possibly fake-claiming scum live over lynching?
Do you believe scum will use all of their shots N1?

The benefits of letting a possibly fake-claiming scum live are exactly the same as the benefits of letting any other player live. It's not really a point at all, because we're all one of two roles as town. Fate hasn't claimed N2 vig, though this is what has been implied and picked up.

I don't know what scum will do - it will depend on how safe they feel, and possibly how many N1 vig shots they're up against. I don't think theorising scum's night tactics for them is sensible, as I don't see how it helps us make a plan for something now.

[Mr. Flay]

Fourth Vote Count of Day One

PokerFace - 6 (UltimaAvalon, Fate, Cogito Ergo Sum, Fritzler, chamber, Hoopla)
Fate - 4 (Katsuki, AGar, Xalxe, Sudo_Nym)
Xalxe - 2 (scotmany12, PokerFace)

Not Voting: nobody!

With twelve alive, seven votes will be needed to lynch.

[AGar]

Hoopla, your logic makes sense, but then the "Oh hay, you found my gambit!" shit is really mucking shit up for me. If it wasn't for that, compounding the insincerity I find in the overzealous attack on Kats, I'd be in stride with that.

[UltimaAvalon]

Katsuki I wanted a policy lynch on you so that I could live to use my shot, is that so wrong?
(correction: Is that so scummy?)

Yes. To both

It just shows how little you know of FATE-META (if there were such a thing), because I always do crazy anti-town things in order to survive.

Again, this is not how meta works. Meta is not something that you know, or have any control over. If you did, then it wouldn't work as meta. So to say "lol this isn't my meta" is stupidly wrong at best and blatantly scummy at worst

Wanting to live past N1 isn't stupid

It really is, actually. If you had a powerful PR, then you would make an attempt to do so, but you would do it by playing Town, not manipulating the game into your favor. However, since you're no more or less powerful than ANY OTHER ROLE IN THE GAME, trying to make sure you live is not Pro-Town.

Also I haven't been soft-claiming-as Hoopla put it

Negative, you totally have

If you think I would transparently soft claim all day, as scum then you REALLY don't know my scummeta.

Neither do you. Read above.

UA and whoever else has called me dumb

It was Fritzler -UA

has failed to point me toward any specific examples or posts I have made.

It'd be easier to just take a screenshot of all your posts side by side. Also, I don't have to point out why you're stupid, only why you're scum.

All of Post 118

No, the post made perfect sense. Fritz is a pretty smart guy, and calling him names and yelling at the Unicorn Club/Scumchat Posse doesn't give you town points

I'm transparently town like I ALWAYS AM

More "blah blah this is how my meta works" read above

MY FLIP WILL JUSTIFY THAT

You must be Town, I've never seen Scum say this or any derivative thereof.

I didn't put much thought into the mathematics behind the set-up

To be fair, you haven't really put much thought into anything, and here's a good reason why

I'm trying not to die N1 this game.
I only wanted Katsuki dead because as town he'll vig me like a moron.
Katsuki I wanted a policy lynch on you so that I could live to use my shot
having me alive is the most pro-town thing in my view

(There's probably one or two more but I'm so sick of reading you in isolation.

You are trying too hard to manipulate the forces of the game. You're trying to ensure you live through the night, you're trying to live to see tomorrow. This is not a pro-Town attitude. IF YOU ARE TOWN your DUTY is not to live, it's to make sure Town lives. Your self-preservation will never see to that, in a setup where you're just as powerful as everyone else. If you die, so what, there's 7 other people who also have guns who can win for you. Therefor, for the same reason, self-preservation is far more important for a Scum player. If they don't lynch an Odd-Vig today, then it's possible that all 4 of them can die tonight. Town play is "Play so Town Wins", Scum play is "Live so Scum wins"

I'm sure Flay would appreciate it
I'm trying to make a good impression on Flay.
show Flay that the impression he has of me is wrong.
IM STARTING TO GO INTO RAGE MODE, FLAY BE DAMNED.

Fuck Flay, he's not even playing the game. We are. Play to impress us, not him

[Sudo_Nym]

UA already said most of it, but the main problem that I have with Fate is that he's doing anything to convince us that he's not scum, so much as screaming at us for thinking it. His only defense so far has been meta, which is WIFOM at best- claiming that he must be town because his meta says it doesn't amount to anything, because meta can be faked. So why don't you calm down, and start playing as actual town?

[Katsuki]

What do you think are the benefits of letting a possibly fake-claiming scum live over lynching?
Do you believe scum will use all of their shots N1?

The benefits of letting a possibly fake-claiming scum live are exactly the same as the benefits of letting any other player live. It's not really a point at all, because we're all one of two roles as town. Fate hasn't claimed N2 vig, though this is what has been implied and picked up.

I don't know what scum will do - it will depend on how safe they feel, and possibly how many N1 vig shots they're up against. I don't think theorising scum's night tactics for them is sensible, as I don't see how it helps us make a plan for something now.

I guess what I essentially want to ask is, do you think it is possible fate is trying to play even-night vig in order to save his shot?

Because I can totally see fate doing this. In fact, it fits perfectly into what amounts to his mad genius.