Mafia 123 - Outdoorsmen Mafia 2 GAME OVER

[kikuchiyo]

Sorry. This is dj. Wife left account logged in.

[tylerjarvis]

Nobody has played the noob card in the first place.

[nhammen]

@mod: LA until Friday

Will respond to everything after my last post upon my return.

[bvoigt]

OK, several people have only posted a few times, but here are my reads at this point.

Town

bvoigt
nhammen- seems to be looking for information and making logical decisions.
Empking- His vote for Nacho looks like something a townie would say.
iamausername- see above, except because of his defense of Guderian. I disagree, though, as I'd expect scum to carefully read the sample role PM.
Calcifer- they're making a lot of sense to me.
DemonHybrid- This one's hard to explain, but he's not staying in the background as scum would.

Not Sure

Parama
chkflip
don_johnson
RossWilliam- I'd like him to explain his DH vote, please.
ender241
Untrod Tripod

Scum

werewolf555- only a few posts, and all he's really done is parrot other's ideas. I haven't seen any scumhunting from him.
tylerjarvis- I don't like his HoS on Demon. Why do a "jumpy nature and snap judgments" (ISO #5) make someone scum?
evilpacman18- OK, I have nothing really to add to the case on him, but I agree with Calcifer's argument that he's been defensive.
Guderian- Yeah, he overreacted to DH's statement about the possible scumteam. Guderian is always aggressive, but it feels like he's focusing on defending himself rather than aggressively scumhunting.

VOTE: Guderian

[Calcifer]

Agree on everything. Everything else will be marked down as a contradiction.

Do you expect two players to agree on everything?

"Of course not. They're in different player slots."

Alright, then how about this: do you expect a replacement to share the opinion of their predecessor? They have the same player slot, after all!

...No, no you're not. My view on Hydras is like that. We're two different players. We're never going to agree on EVERYTHING. We agree on most things, and like I said, that's enough for me.

Mastin: please tell me which of rosswilliam's 3 posts tell you he's town.

Done so multiple times.

I like the idea of Ross being town, due to his post here--he doesn't like Evil or Demon, despite them going against each other, something I also didn't like. That kind of thinking makes me believe he's solidly town.

I have since elaborated on why that makes him town, even doing so in the post above yours.

-Mastin.

[DemonHybrid]

You aren't considered two different players though. You are considered one. That's the risk you take with hydras.

Agree with everything before you produce output in a QT or on AIM or something or I'm replacing out.

[don_johnson]

That'll help me catch up. At a glance, don't like EPM or DH but I do need to read more carefully before getting in depth.

^^ this? really? ross basicaally chimes in with

one sentence

of alleged content and uses that sentence to point the finger at two of the more vocal players in the game. not to mention that both players were on opposite sides of an argument, thus giving ross an easy way to justify a vote on either of them at a later time. how is this "town" again?

Ross isn't a new player, obviously, but it's an example of a read that I feel Don was only looking half-heartedly at, not really thinking about it for more than a few seconds.

His harsh treatment of newbies

and his general reads feel like they are extremely lazy, putting no intention to look even remotely beyond the surface.

please point out the "harsh treatment".

When you look only at the literal meaning, you are not being a good player; EVERYone has to do a little reading between the lines.

ad hom.

I do so more than most people do, but still, everyone needs at least some of that basic effort to understand the meaning.

yes. i read the entire thread. i pointed out what i felt was off while i was reading it. i then laid my vote on who i felt was the most suspicious of all. the guy with two poorly reasoned votes, no content, and a fingerpoint at two players in an early argument. zero scumhunting. zero content. two votes.

And when you do that, Ross looks town, not scum. Most of the newbies look good, too, yet from what I saw, you didn't have a positive opinion on any of them.

when you do what? ignore their play? pretend they are giving content when they are not? if you are going to DEFEND a group of players then you need to produce a little more than "well, if you look past the surface you will see they are town.

you are full of bs. you are defending players who have done nothing to deserve it. you are not adequately explaining anything. tell me, in 50 words or less, why you think rosswilliam is not deserving of a vote.

That is not how any good player plays mafia.

ad hom.

noob cards:

I'm really disliking the fact that after a couple pages with little not many people posting people are making decisions on who's scum and town already.

I haven't played any games

except from newbie games on this site but you can't automatically decide who's scum and who isn't...

...

I have never been in a game where people make srsface scumlists on page 2.

I really have no idea what to make of this.

One of these days, I'll post without having to correct it.

saying "one of these days" implies that this happens alot to you. i interpret it as you being newbie. its not a big deal. i didn't make it a big deal. you tried to imply that i made a big deal about it, but fact is, i didn't. in fact, i didn't vote any of the three players i called out on the noob card. the rest of your posting lacks content imo. if you would like i can do a pbp iso for you. as it is, i would rather you look at rosswilliam and tell me if you think he's town. then ask yourself why calcifer is defending people and what you think about his response to my rosswilliam vote. those types of things are going to be more helpful than trying to engage in a semantics argument over what i consider to be "playing the noob card" and what you consider to be "playing the noob card". the point is rather irrelevant atm. but whatever.

You aren't considered two different players though. You are considered one. That's the risk you take with hydras.

Agree with everything before you produce output in a QT or on AIM or something or I'm replacing out.

lynching them out is an option as well. especially considering mastin seems intent on wallposting fluff and defending players who should be defending themselves...

[Calcifer]

Having uniform reads is reasonable enough since we don't disagree on too much.

[tylerjarvis]

Noob cards:

I'm really disliking the fact that after a couple pages with little not many people posting people are making decisions on who's scum and town already.

I haven't played any games

except from newbie games on this site but you can't automatically decide who's scum and who isn't...

...

I have never been in a game where people make srsface scumlists on page 2.

I really have no idea what to make of this.

One of these days, I'll post without having to correct it.

You count these as newb cards? I was referring to the fact that every post I'd made in this game so far had required a correction. Untrod was just commenting on the warmonger of scumlists showing up. Ender was the closest to playing that card, but even his was just a question about how normal that was.

It's not a major point in the game except that it serves as an indicator that you make snap judgments and that you overestimate. If you consider things like this "playing the newbie card" then you'll also overreact to other statements. It's difficult to trust your reads if you're going to misinterpret or over analyze these kinds of statements.

[don_johnson]

i referred to the posts as "playing the noob card". that's not "overreacting".

i didn't say "omgz we gotz to lynch these mothafuckas RIGHT NOWZ!".

i would rather you look at rosswilliam and tell me if you think he's town. then ask yourself why calcifer is defending people and what you think about his response to my rosswilliam vote. those types of things are going to be more helpful than trying to engage in a semantics argument over what i consider to be "playing the noob card" and what you consider to be "playing the noob card". the point is rather irrelevant atm. but whatever.

but instead you choose to argue the "noob" thing. anytime you want to start contributing, you let me know.

[Kitoari]

DrippingGoofball replaces ender241.

[this space actually reserved for a VC later]

[Guderian]

bvoigt, It was/is imperative I defend myself against nonsense logic, otherwise if they lynch EPM and he flips scum (keep in mind there are two scum teams) DH will point and shout and try and get me lynched as well for some hocus-pocus connection.

"You aren't considered two different players though. You are considered one. That's the risk you take with hydras.

Agree with everything before you produce output in a QT or on AIM or something or I'm replacing out."

^^^^^ Agreed ^^^^^

[Guderian]

Rope Alert:

RossWilliam ( I isoed this guy after reading DJ. I suggest you all do so as well.)
DH
Nacho
EPM
Calcifer

[DemonHybrid]

Wow holy shit

Nacho IS Calcifer.

[DemonHybrid]

I seriously didn't think I had to say that after EPM said that Nacho and Cal were different and I told him that he wasn't reading.

You guys are following each other's reads, I'm sure of it now.

[Guderian]

well, considering calcifer has only been mastin posting.

And nacho was scummy in the beginning.

I am now doubly happy to lynch.

[Guderian]

By the way, that was impressive how fast you got here to try and spin that in a scummy manner DH.

[DemonHybrid]

By the way, that was impressive how fast you got here to try and spin that in a scummy manner DH.

Derp.

[DemonHybrid]

Speaking of which,

@Mod: Can you update the first post with replacements?

[Guderian]

Derp =???

[DemonHybrid]

Derp =???

Seriously, that "you're trying to spin that in a scummy manner" doesn't mean anything, seeing as how you and EPM, to my knowledge, were the only ones to make that mistake.

Even bvoigt, the guy who JUST REPLACED IN saw that Calcifer replaced Nacho as a Nacho/Mastin hydra. They read, and you two don't.

However, I'd still like to see EPM's lynch before yours.

[Guderian]

Calm yourself grasshopper. Nacho struck me as scummy from beginning. Calcifer from middle. I equate calcifer as mastin since thats all its been.

To be honest, this game has been full of enough of your misreps and bogus I skim a lot. I'm not entirely sure why youre not lynched yet to be honest, and I put it down to mastin flooding this game with a wave of words and just confusing/muddling everyone.

[DemonHybrid]

K

I've said all I need to anyway.

[chkflip]

YOU GUIEZ! HAS YOU NOT NOTICED DON JOHNSON AND NHAMMEN!? SAME(ish) AVATAR CRUMB!?!?!?!?!?!

DOUBLEVOTE: DONHAMMEN

I felt dirty without getting the RVS out of my system. It's nice to come into a fresh concept (for me) of a game to find that I've played with at least a third of you and have seen or read another third of you before.

DH

, don't expect the towniest of things to ever come from Guderian. This doesn't mean you shouldn't suspect him, but I wouldn't hold him to a "well a townie would say this" type rigmaroll I'm seeing in the first couple pages as you'll likely not see it very well. Everything I've read of him in this game supports his town!meta if that makes any difference to you. Oh, and

please

tone the fucking ad hom down. Like, a lot. It's nothing short of anti-town at best. Especially when you say someone else "favors a bullying attitude over finding information" when you couldn't be doing any more than that by pegging everyone who votes for you 'misguided'. Seems a little buddy-buddy (get off my back) to me. You note a hundred bajillion times that your logic and Nacho's logic is absolute and inseperable; however, the same logic does not mean the same play, does not mean the same

anything

but logic and saying that "oh, if me then him too" every single time is not only Attack from Repetition, but it also solidifies nham's point that you're searching in every which direction you can to stamp anything and everything as either stupid or scum. And seriously? Fucking replace out if you're going to bitch and whine about everything. People have different opinions, get used to it.

Tyler

, I love this sentence. "The whole conversation so far has been pretty ridiculous. I feel like I'm standing in the middle of a Mexican stand off." That's exactly how I felt at that point. On a more serious note, I, like others, want to hear more out of you. You don't have to quote people or dissect them; however, you choosing to do something pertaining to somebody, anybody, would be nice.

Calcifer

, am I to expect the OMG-are-you-seriously-posting-this-many-times-in-a-row approach? Because that's not any less of a text wall than posting it all up at once. Your opinion?

werewolf

, posting more often =/= you being less scummy. You need the content, too. Username has a valid point when he's caught you squawking about the post right above yours... it just doesn't look like you give enough of a shit to pay attention, y'know?

nham

, your "Umm... OK" is a perfect example (which I LOL'd at for a good thirty seconds) of how Guderian will come to the table with something you think could be questionable but at the same time doesn't/shouldn't specifically staple him as obv!scum like a few players have done.

parama

, why? So you can see whether or not you've fooled one more person with your trickery? All I'm saying is I'll give my scumreads at my own pace, for the moment, as this is really my first post in the game. I do have scumreads, yes, but read the quote in my signature and maybe you'll see my side a little.

I don't know who "

dj

" is (obviously it's not a tj typo as he posted next?) so if that person could claim the kik posts for me, that'd be swell.

bvoigt

, I see you haven't changed a bit. Still putting yourself at the very top of your towny list. Aside from the fact that you know your alignment, what (that you've done) would implicate you into such a position?

DGB

, you gonna nitpick every little thing like you did in your last scum!game with me?

Gud

, FFS, man. You can't expect everyone to jump onboard because you flail your arms around and say "HES SCUM HES SCUM"... obviously it doesn't work. Not for anyone but Fate (that I've seen) can really do that with any success, so please, for my sanity, can you somehow reiterate your DH case in one post for everyone to see? That might help your position.

Per request, a scum game and a town game of mine. A meta-opinion on them would be cool to have, but obviously that may have to wait as (again) this is pretty much my first legit post.

VOTE: Empking

- his hunting, so far, seems fake. Also, if you're into meta, this is exactly how he played the above-linked scum game.

[Parama]

well, considering calcifer has only been mastin posting.

And nacho was scummy in the beginning.

I am now doubly happy to lynch.

...I don't see the part where you said "Nacho was scummy in the beginning."
Can you point out where you even mentioned this before?

By the way, that was impressive how fast you got here to try and spin that in a scummy manner DH.

Isn't that EXACTLY what you're doing in this post? Looks like it to me, hypocrite.

So then our happy list of

happy

soon-to-be-dead scum happy:
EPM/Guderian/(maybe a third???) on one happy side
DH/???/(maybe a third???) on the other happy side.

Yes, this is exactly what I said before. Unfortunately, due to the large number of people who aren't posting, I don't have much more reads. I mean, 3 nailed scum is more than enough for D1 IMO when at best we could have 4 scum total and at worst 6.