Mini 1096 - Seinfeld Mafia (Game Over)

[The Fonz]

Vote: LMP

for all the same reasons I was voting him yesterday.

[MacavityLock]

But how does any of that prohibit you from talking about other players? Day 1 you were very much on the sidelines about people that got a good amount of attention (raj, LMP and UT to name a few). I believe scum would like to avoid taking stances for as long as possible, while town should look in several places for scum, so this part makes me suspicious of you.

1) Unrelenting pressure was necessary. 2) I commented on both raj and UT, and I generally don't give away my town reads early.

@MacLock: Was MoI’s reaction to getting voted a part of your secret meta tell? Otherwise I don’t know why it took you until 246 to bring it up. Couldn’t it have been used in addition to something you couldn’t say on Day 1?

No, his reaction to my vote was not part of the meta. It was separate.

[charter]

Yeah, had a busy weekend and the football game is on tonight, I'll have a case tomorrow.

[Kdub]

ELAINE: Hey, so Kramer's running for president of the condo?
JERRY: Yeah, it's all my father's doing. He wants to install Kramer in a puppet regime and then wield power from behind the scenes, preferably from the sauna in the clubhouse.
ELAINE: Who are they running against?
JERRY: Common sense and a guy in a wheelchair.

Vote Count

charter (0) -
LynchMePls (1) - The Fonz
Katsuki (1) - MagnaofIllusion
The Fonz (0) -
MagnaofIllusion (2) - Untrod Tripod, Katsuki
Jahudo (1) - MacavityLock
Haschel Cedricson (0) -
Talitha (0) -
Untrod Tripod (2) - Kmd4390, LynchMePls
Kmd4390 (1) - charter
MacavityLock (0) -
Not Voting (3) - Jahudo, Haschel Cedricson, Talitha

11 votes available, 6 votes needed to lynch.

[LimMePls]

I'm going to do a complete reread, and see if I can get engaged with this game. Infodump/Wallpost will be incoming.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I’m going to agree that this game seems very disconnected. The level of activity is low almost all the way around.

At this point I think Katsuki is just going to lurk about and do no scum-hunting. I think he is a very reasonable lynch today, especially in light of his “HAMMAH … oops I totally regret that” routine.

@MOD can we get prods on Haschel / Tal / Katsuki if they are due?

--

How is specifically referencing post 192 in my vote lurker-hunting?

Because you’ve summarized you grand reason for voting for Bv to a single post he made. Why does that post make him the scummiest player in the game? I’d like some content to back up your vote.

Yes, but in all this time railing against me, you've never voted. Am I not allowed to ask?

You certainly are allowed to ask anything you want in a Mafia game. Just as I am allowed to point out that your question serves no clear scum-hunting motivation.

--

Vote: LMP for all the same reasons I was voting him yesterday.

Can I convince you to join me on a Kats wagon? I understand your motivation here but I think we need to start consolidating pressure.

[Talitha]

Yeah I'm 2/3 of the way through complete re-read and not sure if it's any help at all, so far.

I'm still looking mostly at LMP for my vote today, but because I don't think I've played with him or Katsuki at before (apologies if I'm wrong about that) I'm interested in the opinions of people who have played with both of them.

Also MacavityLock. I'm interested in others' opinions about him and would quite likely vote him if LMP's not the play.

[MacavityLock]

How is specifically referencing post 192 in my vote lurker-hunting?

Because you’ve summarized you grand reason for voting for Bv to a single post he made. Why does that post make him the scummiest player in the game? I’d like some content to back up your vote.

Because that post was lazy, was asking for permission from town as opposed to taking initiative, and with his subsequent vote moved raj-town to L-1 and pretty much solidified his lynch. Yes, it made him the scummiest player in the game. Easily.

Yes, but in all this time railing against me, you've never voted. Am I not allowed to ask?

You certainly are allowed to ask anything you want in a Mafia game. Just as I am allowed to point out that your question serves no clear scum-hunting motivation.

Why to do presume that I have no scum-hunting motivation for asking it? I can give you a very good reason why scum-you might be avoiding voting me: OMGUS will make you look bad, so you're just going to argue and snipe. You're not helping yourself by brushing off what I'm doing as not scum-hunting.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why to do presume that I have no scum-hunting motivation for asking it? I can give you a very good reason why scum-you might be avoiding voting me: OMGUS will make you look bad, so you're just going to argue and snipe. You're not helping yourself by brushing off what I'm doing as not scum-hunting.

If I was worried about OMGUS would I have voted immediately today for Katsuki? Nope. Because OMGUS is an over-used buzzword bingo phrase, not a viable scum-tell IMO. If I thought you were the scummiest player in the game at any juncture I’d vote for you regardless of your vote on me. So far you’ve been out-shadowed by others.

Which is exactly why I don’t think that post had any scum-hunting intent at all.

[MacavityLock]

If I was worried about OMGUS would I have voted immediately today for Katsuki? Nope. Because OMGUS is an over-used buzzword bingo phrase, not a viable scum-tell IMO.

I agree, it is a buzzword and isn't always a scum-tell. But it can be one, and can be viewed as one. Being scum means you have to manage other people's perception of you, OMGUS can make you look bad, so you might want to avoid it.

[LimMePls]

UT's scum team post. I still think if UT is scum in this game, there are buddies on this list.
This post is why I'm suspicious of his buddies. I think UT is certainly the sort of person to say something like this and be serious. The fact that he included "EVERYONE JUMP ON THE LMP WAGON NAO" when I know I'm town is what makes me pretty sure he is scum, and some of the players on his list are scum with him.
@Charter: What was horrid about your entrance?
In this post UT wants to turn my joke into a scummy action. And then doesn't vote me for it.
This post is the one that made me think that MOI is most likely buddy of UT's. @MOI: What are your current feelings on UT?
In this post UT tries to deflect MOI's opinion of him by buddying him and saying MOI wasn't OMGUSing (newsflash: No one thought he was). Another post that makes me think that UT/MOI team is correct. MOI distances and UT responds by giving MOI a town-read. This is either scum-town or scum-scum interaction.
MOI tries here and again here to cast my vote in the worst possible light to then dismiss it. Yes, I originally put it on as a RVS bandwagon vote, but the interactions with UT made it much more awesome, and it was THOSE interactions that made me confirm my vote. Trying to paint the vote as just a "pointless RVS vote" is scummy.
HC gives me town vibes in this post.
All the reasons I want UT lynched. <--- @UT: This one's for you.
In this post KMD unvotes UT right after I vote UT and moves his vote to the 'mislynch-of-the-day(TM)'. Then tries to downplay MOI-UT connections.
KMD continues with the sideways MOI defense.
Raj implicates MOI and KMD.
Another reason I want UT lynched.
Here MOI claims I dodged a question I never dodged.
MOI continues bussing UT.
I find this post interesting because here peanut tries to tie me to MOI, and votes MOI. If MOI is scum, peanut may be a buddy for this post, trying to get on the bandwagon and at the same time line up a mislynch by setting up a false connectin.
Glaring bandwagon vote from Talitha after some hardcore lurking, and it happens to be on the mislynch-of-the-day(TM), with "I think raj could be scum" as the only explanation, and very wishy-washy statements towards the other important matters of the game. MAJOR SCUM POINTS.

LMP, ok.
By the way, the thing I noticed was that Magna and Kat were the first two to post and made Untrod's list. LMP was Untrod's vote and made the list. I was curious about where the hell Charter's name got dragged in from, but he's first on the playerlist, so scratch that theory.

I somehow missed this before. This is a really interesting observation. So UT's list might actually be completely fabricated on the spot. Taking this into advisement.

**POST IS TOO BIG, DOING THIS IN TWO BATCHES**

[LimMePls]

This post is interesting in the following ways: Calls Kmd and peanut town, although Kmd has been posting that peanut is scum, Notes Tal's weak entrance to the game, but does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about it, lines up MOI->LMP lynch chain while calling me and MOI "SCUMBUDDYZ4LYFE" despite the fact that, unless I'm misremembering, MOI and I have never been scum together. I find this chain of MOI->LMP interesting because Kat isn't the first person to push this, peanut did it earlier (see above), and Kat calls peanut town in this very same post.
When Kmd tries to get Katsuki to explain why Peanut gets town Katsuki gives the very underwhelming:

Overall comments.

If Tal-Katsuki exists, this post is one of the reasons. What I find interesting here is Tal's agreeing with Kat about "Raj & LMP", both of which I know are mislynches, and Tal's "let's discuss why lynch MOI before LMP".
MOI asserts "No, since I'm not scum. But don't let that pesky little fact get in the way of your rhetoric." On what universe is MOI's alignment a fact to anyone but MOI? Talk about rhetoric...
UT's calling my reaction to his list weird but not MOI's, even though the two reactions are similar, is noted.
Tal continues to be as worthless as possible, while trying to appear to be helping with useless questions and "I'm interested now in...".
More complete lack of contribution and fence-sitting from Talitha.
In this post UT picks up prod, unvotes me without voting elsewhere, makes some completely worthless theory statements, attacks Kmd with complete crap, and then re-lurks. UT needs lynching.
Once peanut realizes he won't get a claim from MOI, he unvotes. Without another vote, just the usual scum unvoter's "need to reread" bullshit. SUPER SCUMMY.
Kmd is town.
ML's peanut observations are spot on.
bv distances from the Raj mislynch, while leaving enough wiggle room to vote it if needed.
Then gets on.
The hypocrisy of Peanut's slot calling me out for wanting MOI's claim, when peanut made THIS POST is hilarious. peanut/The Fonz is scum.
charter is spot on about peanut.
I'm retarded.
Tal says "A few random observations" as if her whole entire play isn't summed up with "A few random observations".
Katsuki's vote on me with the impending Raj lynch while saying "Fine with raj lynch" is scummy as hell.
"Oh he is L1" from Katsuki after UT rightly points out Katuski's above terrible post. Followed by Katsuki hammer. This slot is scum.
Following the hammer, but before the flip Tal is "relieved the day appears to be over". Scummy.
Kmd nails Tal.
Katsuki tries to shift focus after the flip to MOI's reaction to the hammer along with crap "this is a post town-MOI would NEVER make". Complete BS.

TL;DR

-Kmd's observation that points out that UT's list was the first 4 non-UT names in the thread is compelling evidence that it was completely dreamed up on the spot.
-This also mitigates MOI hate a fair bit.
-Peanut/TheFonz is scum.
-Katsuki is scum.
-Tal is probably scum.
-UT would be an AWESOME vig shot. SMOKE 'EM IF YOU GOT 'EM.
-Jahudo/bv slot needs further evaluation.

TOWN
Kmd4390
charter
MacavityLock
Haschel Cedricson
MagnaofIllusion
Jahudo
Untrod Tripod
Talitha
Katsuki
The Fonz
SCUM

Unvote
Vote: The Fonz

[Kdub]

Haschel Cedricson, Kmd4390, and Katsuki have been prodded.

[Katsuki]

No time to comment today sorry guys.

[Talitha]

Wow, another replacement who I like better than their predecessor. Jahudo's post 274 pretty much sums up entirely my current thoughts and suspicions. Thank you for replacing.

LMP: After being all about UT's damn list (given in the 10th post of the damn game), you're finally noticing that it was made up on the spot?! Didn't UT even say this later?
Your "big dump" just looks like throwing mud around to see what sticks. How can my vote be "glaring bandwagon vote" when it was the FIRST on Raj? I don't even have the energy to look at the rest of it.

[Talitha]

vote: LMP

[Jahudo]

MacavityLock

) Unrelenting pressure was necessary. 2) I commented on both raj and UT, and I generally don't give away my town reads early.

1) I guess I'll just have to take your word on it until we know what this is all about.
2) Ehhhh, all I see is you calling raj null in 185, which says nothing, and agreeing with a point UT made about bv in 202, which says little about what you think of him and more about what you thought of bv. However that does make me realize your other suspect was bv, its just still odd that you waited that long to start looking for somebody else given you were not a lurker or flaker.

@MacLock: Was MoI’s reaction to getting voted a part of your secret meta tell? Otherwise I don’t know why it took you until 246 to bring it up. Couldn’t it have been used in addition to something you couldn’t say on Day 1?

No, his reaction to my vote was not part of the meta. It was separate.

Ok, so what does that mean? Were you not looking for a reaction when you voted him? Or was it necessary to keep your analysis to his reaction a secret until later on?

----------

LynchMePls

I think UT is certainly the sort of person to say something like this and be serious.

Saying he's capable of using calling himself scum as scum and saying he would actively do it are two different things. You still haven't made an argument why he would be motivated to do it in this case, unless you have a good meta on him for doing this alot. Because I think its just as likely for his comments to be a joke and not true at all, so its 100% null tell for me. Your insistence that this is a good scum tell is confusing.

The fact that he included "EVERYONE JUMP ON THE LMP WAGON NAO" when I know I'm town is what makes me pretty sure he is scum

Again, why would you jump to this conclusion? Why are you so sure he wasn't making a joke? And I don't know why you need to include the "I know I'm town" part.

[MacavityLock]

2) Ehhhh, all I see is you calling raj null in 185, which says nothing

It says I didn't particularly want him lynched.

and agreeing with a point UT made about bv in 202, which says little about what you think of him and more about what you thought of bv.

Also, there's my iso 5:

For right now, I don't really love Untrod's pressure release unvote of Magna, and I'm not particularly sure why he picked charter out over you. Gut's got him neutral-leaning scum.

However that does make me realize your other suspect was bv, its just still odd that you waited that long to start looking for somebody else given you were not a lurker or flaker.

Let me repeat: Unrelenting pressure was necessary.

Ok, so what does that mean? Were you not looking for a reaction when you voted him? Or was it necessary to keep your analysis to his reaction a secret until later on?

The following remains true:

My reason for thinking that he might be more likely to be scum has to do with meta, and I'm not going to discuss what exactly it was right now. That's because I feel that I can get more definitive info depending on whether or not he does a certain thing in the future, and I don't want to tip what that is just yet.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Let me repeat: Unrelenting pressure was necessary.

Unrelenting pressure with no reasoning? I’d accuse you of trying to copy Jack or Fate or one of the other chuckleheads who have made that a ‘style’ but I get the sense you really believe whatever it is you think you have.

--

No time to comment today sorry guys.

Yet you had time, just today (not even including since your last post here), to make 9 OTHER game posts (yes, I’m not including Queue or MD or GD or whatever else), one of which was after this.

Dear God Can I Please Get Some More Kats Votes? Please?

It’s like he’s writing the technical manual for how to lurk as scum.

--

@MOI: What are your current feelings on UT?

He’s in my admitted large pool of potential scum. I stand by my comments made early day 1 about his ‘LMP is scummy, vote anyone else’ being textbook scummy play. I also don’t like his comment about bv / Jahudo at 193. His observation is correct but the manner in which he attacks that slot looks to me to be someone who knew that Rajr would flip Town and went out of his way to scum up bv.

UT tries to deflect MOI's opinion of him by buddying him and saying MOI wasn't OMGUSing (newsflash: No one thought he was). Another post that makes me think that UT/MOI team is correct. MOI distances and UT responds by giving MOI a town-read. This is either scum-town or scum-scum interaction.

I love this. Love as in makes me throw-up a little in my mouth. Aside from playing buzzword bingo (deflect, buddying, distancing in rapid succession) you have yet to establish why I must be scum for attacking someone who made a horrible attack on me. I’m entitled to defend myself.

MOI tries here and again here to cast my vote in the worst possible light to then dismiss it. Yes, I originally put it on as a RVS bandwagon vote, but the interactions with UT made it much more awesome, and it was THOSE interactions that made me confirm my vote. Trying to paint the vote as just a "pointless RVS vote" is scummy

Well hmmm. Let me think. Don’t you believe when someone tries to pass a bad attack off on you (as Town) that it makes them scummy? You just said that. Then from my POV you are very scummy for passing of increadibly loose ‘interaction’ tells as a justification for making your RVS vote real. I might add your “I put you at L-1 you have to claim” stunt falls right into that category also.

MOI continues bussing UT.

In this post LMP continues to bus UT.

I somehow missed this before. This is a really interesting observation. So UT's list might actually be completely fabricated on the spot. Taking this into advisement.

Did you miss it because it made your relational arguments looks stupid? If so I want a cookie.

I find this chain of MOI->LMP interesting because Kat isn't the first person to push this, peanut did it earlier (see above), and Kat calls peanut town in this very same post.

I find this ironic. Not for the observation about Kat’s total lack of content, which is accurate, but for the fact that LMP is whining about people linking him with someone as a scum-buddy when that’s exactly what he did with me most of Day 1.

Inconsistency for the loss, Alex …

"No, since I'm not scum. But don't let that pesky little fact get in the way of your rhetoric." On what universe is MOI's alignment a fact to anyone but MOI? Talk about rhetoric...

Pick your poison here LMP. Either both of us are scummy for using rhetoric or neither of us is. You can’t have it both ways. Not that actually called me scummy. You simply infer it in a manner I tend to see from scum. And should I mark you down for pointless rhetoric also for calling yourself Town? In what universe is your alignment a fact to anyone but yourself?

--

If I can’t get any sort of movement on Oh-My-God-Could-It-Be-More-Obvious Scum Katsuki I’ll be moving my vote to a wagon that’s viable and I can support.

Why is he lurking and avoiding my pressure you ask? Let me refer you a QT quote from LOTR Mafia. I tagged him Day 1 as scum and in the QT we get the following -

I did not play good at all first 2/3 of the game. I mean, I could easily push for rewq/gandalf over myself. But I doubt I'll be able to overcome ME if he comes at me. I hate MOI's playstyle.

He knows as scum he doesn't like the odds of going head to head with me. So he lurks / ignores as his only defense.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Sorry, everyone. My meeting did not go very well, and I spent most of the weekend drunk. Normally drunkenness compels me to get caught up in all my mafia games, but apparently that only applied to Happy Drunk Haschel and not Sad Drunk Haschel.

Also MacavityLock. I'm interested in others' opinions about him and would quite likely vote him if LMP's not the play.

I think whatever his secret tell on Magna can't possibly be strong enough to merit his play on Day 1. This makes me think he is lying, and Jahudo's point about Mac ignoring practically every other player is a good one.

Vote: MacavityLock

.

Katsuki is another fine bet.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Katsuki is another fine bet.

I agree. Please vote for him.

[LimMePls]

@Tal: Your vote wasn't the first on Raj, Kmd had actually voted him first. I didn't realize that he had unvoted between that and when you voted, but my point still stands. Your suspicions of Raj were crap and were basically just sheeping what others where saying to him.

LynchMePls

I think UT is certainly the sort of person to say something like this and be serious.

Saying he's capable of using calling himself scum as scum and saying he would actively do it are two different things. You still haven't made an argument why he would be motivated to do it in this case, unless you have a good meta on him for doing this alot. Because I think its just as likely for his comments to be a joke and not true at all, so its 100% null tell for me. Your insistence that this is a good scum tell is confusing.

The fact that he included "EVERYONE JUMP ON THE LMP WAGON NAO" when I know I'm town is what makes me pretty sure he is scum

Again, why would you jump to this conclusion? Why are you so sure he wasn't making a joke? And I don't know why you need to include the "I know I'm town" part.

Did you read anything I just posted? I'm not "so sure", I'm in fact the opposite of that now. Those comments at the top were while I was doing my reread. Read the tl;dr.

@MOI: Most of that stuff you didn't like was earlier in my reread. My opinion on the UT/MOI business has changed substantially. So I don't really know what you want me to say in regards to this shit you just pointed out. And you are absolutely correct that it is hypocritical to be opposed to others drawing a chain when I was doing the same thing. THAT SAID, and I know this means pretty much dick all to the rest of you, but I KNOW I'm not scum, so obviously I see chains involving me as shit.

I'm perfectly willing to admit my play in this game has been complete trash. Hence my attempt just now to reread the game and get a grip on it. Here is a peach offering for you:

Unvote
Vote: Katsuki

In return, I'd like you to comment on the other stuff in my reread that DOESN'T involve you. Specifically peanut/Fonz and Tal.

[LimMePls]

and obviously by peach I meant peace. LOLZ.

[Katsuki]

LMP and MOI are obvbuddies.

I love how all the MOI vs LMP hate completely dissipated.

Larger wagon is go, and no one seems to like MOI like I do.

Unvote, Vote: LMP

[LimMePls]

All the LMP hate has definitely NOT dissipated. I love how you can say all the hate has dissipated, and in the same post say "Larger wagon is a go" and vote me. Seems pretty contradictory.

Flail more for us though Katsuki, it'll make your lynch both easier and more satisfying.