Mafia 123 - Outdoorsmen Mafia 2 GAME OVER

[Parama]

/confirm

[Parama]

A 10-3-3 is not balanced by any means. Town has 3 mislynches, yet needs to lynch scum 6 times (in the worst case scenario). So the game's basically relying on crosskills. 10-3-3 is incredibly swingy and if we're playing a 10-3-3 then screw this game. 12-2-2 probably isn't likely either considering that the game could end D2 in the best case scenario. Also very swingy. Meh. 2 mafia factions in a game this small is barely normal anyways.

Agree 100% on EPM - his first post set off tons of alarms and it's been flailing nonstop since then.
In other news, I don't see why DH is town. He didn't even bother to point out EPM's "vote everyone" ploy, though I agree that it makes him unlikely to be scum with EPM since they posted back to back. But I wouldn't be shocked if EPM and DH were on different scumteams.
Guderian 35 lolOMGUS. P.S. for anyone arguing differently, it does actually happen, but rarely.
IAAUN could totally be on the not-EPM scumteam. Or could be a good townie sheeping Nacho. I can't tell.
DH 48 is like fencesit central. I don't even see how he's making any town lists at all. He's saying all that like he doesn't believe a word of it or isn't interested in lynching right.

Scum here:
Evilpacman
Guderian
DemondHybrid
??? (DH's buddy)
[Maybe 2 more scum maybe not?]

Town here:
Nachomamma

UT and IAAUN are the only others who've posted and I don't have enough to get a solid read off them yet, so meeeeh.

vote: Evilpacman

llama

[Parama]

@EPM: Nothing Nacho has done is even remotely scummy. Why would I even consider him a scum suspect? Deflect more.

[Parama]

I'm going to attempt to crop down the wall posts here, it's starting to grate on me and everyone else, surely.

EVERYONE ON THE SITE NEEDS TO FOLLOW SUIT.

I mean, dear god. Wallposts SUCK. Stop spamming them.
/rant

I also have nothing else to say. I think Emp's attack on Nacho is retarded but I don't think it can be taken as anything but a nulltell because I can understand where he'd be coming from but disagree with the logic 100%.

[Parama]

I'm just waiting for a EPM lynch atm in case anyone's wondering. The time for scumhunting's over, it's now time to lynch.

To everyone who isn't voting: Vote in your next post or there will be dire consequences.

That means:
werewolf555
Azelf
chkflip
evilpacman18
4computer
RossWilliam
ender241

ALSO.

Three things for MOD:

1. You have IAAUN voting two players at once
2. Nacho was replaced by Calcifer (hydra), and neither the first post nor the vote count reflect this
3. Rule of threes

[Parama]

chkflip: Top 3 scumreads please.

[Parama]

well, considering calcifer has only been mastin posting.

And nacho was scummy in the beginning.

I am now doubly happy to lynch.

...I don't see the part where you said "Nacho was scummy in the beginning."
Can you point out where you even mentioned this before?

By the way, that was impressive how fast you got here to try and spin that in a scummy manner DH.

Isn't that EXACTLY what you're doing in this post? Looks like it to me, hypocrite.

So then our happy list of

happy

soon-to-be-dead scum happy:
EPM/Guderian/(maybe a third???) on one happy side
DH/???/(maybe a third???) on the other happy side.

Yes, this is exactly what I said before. Unfortunately, due to the large number of people who aren't posting, I don't have much more reads. I mean, 3 nailed scum is more than enough for D1 IMO when at best we could have 4 scum total and at worst 6.

[Parama]

Guderian - sounds largely like his usual self. Town for #187

lolmeta

DemonHybrid >>> likely scum if pacman flips scum. But gets town points for using large fonts for emphasis. But post #150 smells like a buddy is in jeopardy. pacman? Also, not liking #160.

Okay, so if one of your scum reads flips scum, DH is scum... but you think DH is town. Uh. And how the hell do you make that connection?

Parama - not posting at usual town posting frequency (meta). Telling people not to post walls...

lolmeta

Also, nonstop walls kill games and frankly I refuse to read them after a certain point. This comes up in pretty much every large game ever. EVER. I don't even know why I play large games anymore.

Question! You have 5 scum reads and no vote placed! Why?

@DH on hydra nonsense: NOBODY CARES. Take it to MD postgame and stop clogging the thread.

[Parama]

Well, because I don't post lolwalls in most games as any alignment.

[Parama]

Wow. We're really lynching a lurker?
What the hell, guys. What the hell.

[Parama]

Good enough for me. he's top of my scumlist anyway.

vote: werewolf

Confirm Vote

[Parama]

Good enough for me. he's top of my scumlist anyway.

vote: werewolf

Confirm Vote

Can he honestly say you weren't tempted to hop on the bandwagon/ That warm, loving, invititing bandwagon...

Considering the company on it, not at all.

Concerning the wagon on me
Are we really voting someone who is only scummy because they haven't posted instead of voting someone who has posted scummy things. If you want to vote me, go ahead, but i'm sure that more scum-hunting can be done to find scummy posts.
Wolf Out!

Thanks for proving your towniness to us under pressure OH WAIT

You decide to suddenly pop in as soon as a wagon on you appears, as if by magic. And the best you can do is complain about the wagon on you? No! Content! NOW!

I am sure that one person on my wagon is scum, because it is easy for a scum to slip in and add in an extra vote on me, and blatantly copy whatever the above poster has said.

yay! content! And yes, I agree. But someone already said that. Which person on the wagon do you find to be the most likely to be scum?

well I think that chckflip probably isn't scum, because he didn't jump on the bandwagon, which is what scum would probably do.
Evil pacman is suspicious because he views a lurker as the top suspect which I find strange.

Oh man, nhammen/werewolf double fail here. nhammen's bussing his partner and trying to guide him at the same time... and since werewolf's completely incompetent, he's following nhammen's instructions word for word and not realizing how obvious the scumlink is because of it. YAY!

We can do this then. Get nhammen next if werewolf flips scum or EPM if werewolf is town (hahahaha what a laugh). Either way, EPM needs to be lynched by the end of D3, and Guderian need to die too... my god but there's a lot of lynches that need to happen, and so few ropes :<

[Parama]

I am. Derp.

unvote, vote: werewolf

[Parama]

this is dumb. werewolf looks VI.

werewolf, do not claim. wait for threat of hammer. suggesting early claim is SCUMMY.

unvote, vote: demonhybrid

Werewolf: Please claim.

DOUBLE STANDARDS ANYONE???

[Parama]

Hmm, I guess I'll concede my earlier point. I do agree that DH is scum, but not for that reason, though I can definitely see that as a scumlink.

[Parama]

"Scum buddies" would imply multiple partners, yes. Ugh.
At least we got one today. nhammen next please. I think that's pretty obvious.

[Parama]

Okay, so one partner's DH, and the other's nhammen. Just as I suspected.

[Parama]

Ooh, maybe he'll get modkilled for ongoing game discussion, and since he's scum, day will continue and we can lynch one of his partners.

[Parama]

Oh man, nhammen/werewolf double fail here. nhammen's bussing his partner and trying to guide him at the same time... and since werewolf's completely incompetent, he's following nhammen's instructions word for word and not realizing how obvious the scumlink is because of it. YAY!

We can do this then. Get nhammen next if werewolf flips scum or EPM if werewolf is town (hahahaha what a laugh). Either way, EPM needs to be lynched by the end of D3, and Guderian need to die too... my god but there's a lot of lynches that need to happen, and so few ropes :<

Umm.... OK.

Wow, thanks for not even trying to defend yourself! Thanks for not shooting down my theory by providing some sort of counter-argument! The only thing I can take from your response is that I hit the nail on the head and I will probably end up taking a NK for it!

[Parama]

WHERE IS KITOARI?
I WNAT A MODKILL AND A SECOND LYNCH TODAY PLEEEEEEEEASE

[Parama]

Gah, I'm torn. One part of me says that EPM is obvious scum, the other part says Calcifer is doing exactly what he's accusing DGB of doing.
Instead of idling I'll get a vote down for something more definite.

vote: DemonHybrid

[Parama]

Good thing we've already got one started with 3 votes on it AND on scum to boot! Now more people need to join in the fun

[Parama]

^This is fine as well.

[Parama]

I'm so glad I can just tune you out for the rest of the game

[Parama]

no u

[Parama]

I'm waiting around for a DH or EPM lynch. I already made my case.

[Parama]

Gah, I'm torn. One part of me says that EPM is obvious scum, the other part says Calcifer is doing exactly what he's accusing DGB of doing.
Instead of idling I'll get a vote down for something more definite.

vote: DemonHybrid

You mention EPM being obvious scum, and you call me a hypocrite. Then, you vote DH.
I thought you were town this game >.>

And now I sense opportunism in that BM wants to start a wagon on me so you'll finally respond to what is, in game terms, an "old" post and try to call it a scumtell.
One part of me sees obvious EPMscum, the other part says Calcscum. Both parts say DH scum. This is exactly what my post says, in the same terms. I don't see how that makes me a hypocrite OR scum.

[Parama]

And what is with everyone trying to call scum teams by page 3? Do you actually think that so many scum have posted when only about half the players have?

FoS Parama

. Too confident for page 3 of a game in which several players haven't posted and too much based on scum team speculation. Early on, I would expect town to play more like they would in a single scum team game, whereas scum would have a specific team on their mind they're looking for.

I'd give you meta on this showing how I do this literally every game, but meta sucks so I'll just wait until my page 3 "guesses" turn out to be correct and you look like an idiot for calling me out on them.

How the hell did you expect me to discern this from your post...?

...
It's time for a rousing round of Old vs. New!

One part of me says that EPM is obvious scum

One part of me sees obvious EPMscum

the other part says Calcifer is doing exactly what he's accusing DGB of doing

the other part says Calcscum.

Instead of idling I'll get a vote down for something more definite.

vote: DemonHybrid

Both parts say DH scum.

The only one that I worded differently was the last one, but they mean the same thing.
So, my question:

HOW THE HELL COULDN'T YOU DISCERN THAT FROM MY POST?

[Parama]

ugh. broken tags. I hate them so much.

[Parama]

More often than I expect
There was one game where I caught one scum on page 1 and another scum on page 2. Fun times.

[Parama]

I'm not active lurking in the slightest, so you must be thinking of someone else. Anywho...

[Parama]

Instead of idling I'll get a vote down for something more definite.

Can also be read "instead of taking a position on those two I'll just go for something easier."

My vote goes wherever scum is most obvious, which is in this case DH. Once we get through that scumlynch I'll be able to tell you who's the scum out of EPM/Calc.

I'm not active lurking in the slightest, so you must be thinking of someone else. Anywho...

What prompted this?

Your defense that you play this way every game is pretty much meaningless. If I intentionally active lurk every game, would the fact that I do so every game make it any better? No. It makes it worse.

[Parama]

Dunno about EPM but DH just posted in the Song Contest thread.

[Parama]

MOD: There's a chance my power may go out soon due to freezing rain, so consider me V/LA for the next 4 days. I'll keep posting if I don't lose power, of course.

[Parama]

Oh, and i see Parama buggering off for...ooh, the rest of the day. How coincidental!

BM

[REDACTED]
^imagine a long stream of profanity

[Parama]

Lol, because I've been attacking DH basically all game, so when he flips scum (and trust me, he will) that makes me his scumbuddy!
Explain that one to me?

[Parama]

Willing to hammer. EPM needs to claim in his next post.

[Parama]

WELP.

vote: DH

There's like a significant portion of the game that I've been ignoring and I need to read a few people, but DH is still scum.
Also it's pretty obvious now that we don't have a SK. Really would've preferred that over 2 teams x_x
Calcifer's pretty much clear of Eastern mafia in my eyes, and probably town regardless.
UT is probably scum as well, but not on the same team as DH. Dunno which is on which team, though. It could go either way.

VCA incoming, see you in a few.

[Parama]

KEY:
Green = town
Red = eastern
Purple = western

Votecount #1 - The "I'm back on track" votecount.

DemonHybrid - UntrodTripod,

Guderian

, nhammen (3)

evilpacman8

- Nachomamma8, Demonhybrid, iamausername, Parama (4)
UntrodTripod - tylerjarvis (1)

Well... I think this is a good starting point for DH-western

Votecount #2 - The Similar but not quite identical votecount

DemonHybrid - UntrodTripod,

Guderian

(2)

evilpacman8

- Nachomamma8, Demonhybrid, iamausername, Parama (4)

ender241

- nhammen (1)
Calcifer - empking (1)
UntrodTripod - tylerjarvis, iamausername (2)

hi nhammen you're not eastern

Votecount #3

DemonHybrid - UntrodTripod,

Guderian

, Ross William, Empking (4)

evilpacman8

- Nachomamma8, Demonhybrid, iamausername, Parama (4)
UntrodTripod - tylerjarvis (1)

Guderian

- bvoigt (1)

hmm...nope, don't think this says much.

Vote Count

DemonHybrid - UntrodTripod,

Guderian

, Ross William, don_johnson (4)

evilpacman8

- Demonhybrid, iamausername (4)
UntrodTripod - tylerjarvis (1)

werewolf

- Iamusername, Bvoigt,

Drippinggoofball

,

evilpacman18

, nhammen, Empking, Parama, Calcifer, DemonHybrid

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to secure a lynch.

DH holds his EPM vote. Prob not eastern, but most certainly scum.
Actually, what the hell is up with this VC? Now that I look at it, DH and IAAUN are voting twice xD
In other news, I see two eastern on the werewolf wagon. I'd be shocked to see a third, but someone on this wagon, if not two people, are western. Oh look, DH is on the wagon. HMMMMM.

VOTE COUNT!

evilpacman

: Calcifer
Calcifer: Empking
DemonHybrid: Parama
Tylerjarvis: Bvoigt
UntrodTripod: iamusername

Votes everywhere! Nothing new!

VOTE COUNT!

evilpacman

: Calcifer, DemonHybrid, nhammen
Calcifer: Empking
DemonHybrid: Parama, Don_Johnson, Empking,

DRK

, Bvoigt
UntrodTripod: iamusername
Parama:

Battle Mage

Hey look, DH isn't eastern.
Hey look, I'm not western.

VOTE COUNT!

evilpacman

: Calcifer, DemonHybrid, nhammen, iamusername, Bvoigt
DemonHybrid: Parama, Don_Johnson, Empking,

DRK

Parama:

Battle Mage

nothing new.

VOTE COUNT!

evilpacman

: Calcifer, DemonHybrid, nhammen, iamusername, Bvoigt, Don_Johnson, Sharkie
DemonHybrid: Parama, Don_Johnson, Empking,

DRK

Parama:

Battle Mage

Still nothing new, really.

That was... actually kinda useless. Sigh.

[Parama]

I'm a guy btw.
<_<

[Parama]

In light of VCA, yes.
Still want you dead, though.

[Parama]

Parama and Calacifer are the scum. Calling it now.

Vote: Calc

Lol.
LOoooOooOol. Emp just claimed scum.

[Parama]

He can see right through your shenanigans is why.
I don't believe your cop claim because
1. I'm not scum
2. Calc isn't scum
3. DH is scum

[Parama]

This seems like evidence that Parama is not aligned with Evil, so if Parama is scum, it's Western.

And BM's tunnel-vision in spite of the growing EPM wagon is evidence that I'm not Western. So I'm neither! YAY!

A 10-3-3 is not balanced by any means. Town has 3 mislynches, yet needs to lynch scum 6 times (in the worst case scenario). So the game's basically relying on crosskills. 10-3-3 is incredibly swingy and if we're playing a 10-3-3 then screw this game. 12-2-2 probably isn't likely either considering that the game could end D2 in the best case scenario. Also very swingy. Meh. 2 mafia factions in a game this small is barely normal anyways.

This seems like 1: Parama is upset that it is 10-3-3, and
2: He is trying to make it seem like it's 12-2-2 when he knows it's not.

The tone I get from that post is not setup speculation from a pro-town player. The tone I get from that post is, "SCREW YOU, MOD! This game isn't balanced at all!" With a small hint of intentional misleading.

Or I know how to balance setups and 10-3-3 doesn't seem like balanced.

Whatever happened to 3 being too many, Parama? Contradiction to his earlier attitude, no explanation for his change in opinion between 12-2-2 and 10-3-3.

I didn't change my opinion. I made lists for both possible scenarios.

The post also reeks of opportunism.

This accusation reeks of "easiest accusation to make ever lol"

This post is mostly filler.

Maybe in your opinion, but I never post filler. This does seem like filler in your case against me, however <_<

DemonHybrid - UntrodTripod,

Guderian

,

Ross William

, Empking (4)

evilpacman8

- Nachomamma8, Demonhybrid, iamausername, Parama (4)
UntrodTripod - tylerjarvis (1)
Guderian - bvoigt (1)

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to secure a lynch.

At this point, I'd expect to see one scum on Demon, possibly a second from the other faction. On Evil, I'd expect to see scum from the opposite faction. Parama fits the pattern. They'd want one scum on each leading wagon. The third scum in the Western Mafia would be off of both lead wagons, and bv fits that pattern, too.

Except I'm not Western because BM was obvious not bussing me, he was trying to push for a ML on me.

This post reeks of setting up (mis-) lynches on a lot of players.
"I'm willing to lynch all of these guys who aren't my buddies".

Actually, I <3 bussing, but thanks for turning my legitimate reads into "lol mislynching lol"

Filler, and his post here read to me initially as fluff, but the part about the link being indicated seems like he's setting Demon up.

1. I don't post filler
2. Yes, I would like to lynch DH. No, he will not flip town.

Again I see a lot I don't like. The speculation about "buddies" (which was never brought up again if memory serves), combined with nhammen. And his followup reads equally as bad to me. There was no indication before this that he thought Werewolf, Demon, and nhammen were a scum team together--heck, he was saying it was 2 scum with a POSSIBILITY of a third, and suddenly, he says he's thought nhammen and Demon were scum with werewolf?

Does not add up.

Werewolf said "buddies" implying he had more than one.
Now does it add up? I mean, he was moronic lying town, but town don't tend to claim scum after being lynched...

Sheeping Parama.

This tends to be a rather pro-town move in any scenario, actually.

"If you kill me, you die!" Reads as desperately trying to get the Eastern Mafia kill off of himself. This post reads as super-bad to me.

...because that totally happens ON DAY 1, right?

Fence-sitting on us-Evil, and voting for Demon. Looks really, really bad.

We've already been over this.
Like, a lot.
Unless this is the other head of the hydra making this argument, in which case stop being so schizo.

Instead of idling I'll get a vote down for something more definite.

Can also be read "instead of taking a position on those two I'll just go for something easier."

My vote goes wherever scum is most obvious, which is in this case DH. Once we get through that scumlynch I'll be able to tell you who's the scum out of EPM/Calc.

Instead of idling I'll get a vote down for something more definite.

Can also be read "instead of taking a position on those two I'll just go for something easier."

My vote goes wherever scum is most obvious, which is in this case DH. Once we get through that scumlynch I'll be able to tell you who's the scum out of EPM/Calc.

Okay, fair enough.

So yeah.

Filler.

idon'tpostfiller

"Decent choice, buddy, but not the best move." That's what "this is fine" means to me. I'd expect something more definite otherwise. "This is also on scum" "this is not my preferred choice, but is still good" "this is good, but not the best", etc. is what I'd expect if Parama wasn't trying to direct BV elsewhere.

or I agreed that EPM was a good lynch.

"Thanks, buddy."

Their exchange comes across as incredibly forced.

Or BM is really bad at pushing MLs.

Parama's defense here comes across as BS'ing heavily.

Half of this was me making a valid point and the other half was repeating something I already said.

This read as setting up three mislynches on people he knows aren't on his team. "When Demon Dies, I'll vote for one of you two. And when the other dies--if they're town--then I'll be able to lynch the other!"

Okay yeah this hydra needs to get less schizo. Also I'm trying to lynch my scumspects. If that's scummy, then I guess I should stop trying altogether.

As was Parama, though he didn't vote.

Because quickhammering would've been so much better.

This is almost pure filler. Useful pieces of information can be summed up as this:

UT is probably scum as well, but not on the same team as DH.

Which is just horrible. 1: I have a town-read on both, but 2: If they were scum, it'd be together, not on opposite teams. That's really freakin' obvious if you look at the game.

1. I don't post filler
2. I disagree

Parama's VCA is horribl-

-y accurate.
And looking at your reasons, I don't think I'm going to even bother.

Fluff.

...answering a question posed at me...
is fluff?
Wow man. Just wow.

And yet, his vote's on Demon...

Demon's scum too ^_^

I'll take Emp's lynch if you want me to, but next day please get him and make sure DH dies too. Kthx ^_^

[Parama]

In light of VCA, yes.
Still want you dead, though.

Cool. For a second, I was going to vote you.

If I am today's lynch, leave Parama alone, please.

I...still think he's town regardless?

*Emp claims*

I'm a Cop. Calcifer and Parama are scum.

Both Western, then?

You are an autolynch if they don't flip mafia, or if they flip godfather.

Unvote, Vote: Parama

Nacho and Parama bussed EPM to the death. So, in lieu of VCA, let's look for eastern connections with other folk.

He can see right through your shenanigans is why.
I don't believe your cop claim because
1. I'm not scum
2. Calc isn't scum
3. DH is scum

k

Translation: "Shit, Western Mafia is fucked now, fuck"

Hello DH-Emp scumteam. I don't see a sudden 180 based on a cop claim that came really later after daystart and with 2 guilties (2!! wow! If he had one yesterday, why didn't he claim? If he had 2 at daystart, with 3 scum dead, why didn't he leap for joy?!?!?!)

This is pretty obvious, guys. If you let these scum coast to victory by playing "sheep the cop" then I swear I will wring your necks postgame.

[Parama]

EBWOP: I mean, look at the timing.
1. People start hopping on a DH wagon
2. Empking claims when DH seems to be in actual danger of a lynch
3. Empking tries to push the lynch on the person who started the goddamn DH wagon

[Parama]

Notes to self/idiotown: 4 votes on DH when Emp claimed. Emp didn't even vote in his post when he claimed 2 guilties.

[Parama]

Oh, and. VT here. I'm probably not going to even post again unless you guys get your heads out of your rear ends, stop being morons, and start piecing these obvious clues together. See y'all postgame~

[Parama]

Tell me why you went from "PARAMA IS TOWN ZOMG" to "DIE PARAMA UR SCUM", and you can't just say "Cop Claim LOL".
I know you're both scum (that last post basically confirms it) but I want to see you come up with a good excuse anyways ^.^

[Parama]

[Parama]

I'm Eastern.
nhammen is Nacho's buddy IMO.
GL town, hope you win it.

[Parama]

No Calcifer.
You die next.

[Parama]

I hammer 2 Eastern scum. GDI why cant i hammer western scum??? >_<

You can. Just hammer Cal tomorrow.

^

BTW, DH, I legitimately thought you were scum until the point when Emp claimed. Just FYI.

[Parama]

Thanks for killing DGB, Western. Love ya, hugs and kisses, Parama.

Yeah I had no way to win that. I was in an incredibly good position D3, then Empking happened.

[Parama]

There was one for Eastern too, so duh.