Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[implosion]

VOTE: XL0298579

No reason.

Also, I have an ability that I'm pretty sure is detrimental to the town (particularly in the long run if it never goes away). I'll probably wind up claiming it soon.

[implosion]

I was thinking something similar to what pops said. Essentially, today we nominate someone scummy (separate from the lynch). Tonight, everyone with an ability that will hurt the town in the long run gives it to our nominee. The next night, assuming there's at least one vig ability in the game, whoever has that vig ability shoots the nominee. It has to happen the next night after everything is passed because of the action resolution order. Downsides: there are several ways it could get screwed up (target getting passed a bulletproof ability, mafia getting passed a doctor ability, some kind of bus driver moving everything to someone else).

Another thing I was thinking is that we might be able to just massclaim on day two. Mafia won't be able to kill anyone with a useful power role, and it'll give us some insight into what's in play. Oh, and any investigative roles can claim results without risk of their abilities being lost. I think it would also help the town more than the mafia because the mafia can share what roles they've gotten between each other, so they'll already have info about what's in play.

Also, a fullclaim from me is probably inevitable. But we'll see.

[implosion]

RVS = random voting stage. An RVS vote is a vote during the RVS, generally for very weak reasons.

Anyway... part of the reason I like this plan is because my ability won't help mafia

at all

if it's eliminated in this way.

In fact, I'm claiming because there's no reason not to, and it's likely inevitably going to happen at some point today.

I have a treestump ability. For today, I'm voteless and can't be lynched. I'm worried that if this survives to lylo, it could screw everything up if a townie has it. Or if a mafia member has it for that matter. However, mafia having it for one day wouldn't really affect anything.

The more I think about it though, the less merit I think the plan has. Just because we don't know what roles are in play, so there are a lot of possibilities for error, and there are likely some negative roles that mafia could use if eliminated like this. Plus, I'd guess that most abilities in play are positive for the town. Those with such abilities obviously shouldn't claim them until tomorrow - but there are probably things like investigating/protection/vigging that are in play. I think the best thing to do might be to just pay attention to who has abilities like this, and make sure that at some point the abilities get eliminated. It might be a bit trickier with mine since it can't be gotten rid of through lynching.

Discuss.

[implosion]

Also whoever claimed tree stump: why?

Why not? Look at my first post. Then look at the vote count. Notice a lack of my vote being there. If I didn't claim, at some point someone would have noticed this and said "implosion, are you voteless?" As it would be dishonest and misleading to simply say yes without mentioning the unlynchability aspect of my role, I just claimed now. Also, knowing what it is helps us get rid of it.

I mean, an unlynchable townie is a good thing... but voteless

and

unlynchable is just a burden. And if mafia get it in a crucial situation, it's game over.

[implosion]

@pops, I'm not sure what you're trying to "confirm..." if the majority of votes are on me, it proceeds to night as if there was no lynch.

Also, at lylo, the most worrying thing isn't a possible unlynchable mafia (because you could pass it to a townie) - it's the fact that a townie could be voteless. So lets consider a hypothetical 5-way lylo, with 2 mafia in the same faction and 3 townies. If a mafia member has the treestump, then the town has to lynch the other mafia or they lose. If a townie has the treestump then (assuming there are no vig/doc/etc abilities left) the town will only control 2/4 votes and will lose. At 3-way lylo, it wouldn't even matter who had it. If it's a townie, the mafia's vote makes it impossible to gain a majority. If it's the mafia, then well the mafia is unlynchable.

[implosion]

[insert joke about how somebody set us up the bomb]

@pops, IDK if that's how they're usually handled. I'd think so, but I know that's how the treestump works in this game.

[implosion]

Hm... a thought occurs. Could we perhaps use bad abilities (like the treestump) to test possible mafia partners? Mafia can't pass to mafia of the same faction. So if suspicion arises that X and Y are mafia together, we could test the theory by passing the treestump to X and telling them to pass it to Y. If random person Z gets the treestump ability, then X and Y are mafia together (or Z is lying, which in the treestump's case, can be tested by having them vote someone). Notes: fails epically if mafia happen to have a bus driving ability.

Acutually, come to think of it, if there is an ability that affects the way abilities are passed (i.e. bus driving) it could be bad early and late on, and something like that is decently likely to be present considering how well it would fit with the mechanic.

[implosion]

I suspect that if it can be passed during the day, it qualifies as "nonstandard."

[implosion]

Not sure if this has been asked yet or if I just missed something, but:

Mod: if a person is passed an ability on the night that they die, what happens to the ability?

Based on the action resolution order, the ability would be passed to a dead person.

@Anyone who said I'm not confirmed town for having an ability, I never said I was. If everyone with an ability was confirmed town, this would be too easy.

@RedCoyote, can you give a situation in which my ability isn't anti-town? Even having someone voteless and unlynchable in general is bad. It narrows down the town's options and creates a player that won't be able to contribute as effectively.

Also, since I never actually voiced approval, MoI's plan sounds good.

Currently I'm not liking Muh, a couple of posts and no content; I'm also not liking quadz based on his "scumslip" vote on paramas nulltell.

I'm not too keen on the idea of a massclaim early on, however removing anti-town abilities early on could prove beneficial then the scum would be left guessing as to what is in game and where...

Also the spud has a "time limit" of X amount of posts for those who missed it... I would guess that the trigger is around 150~250 posts.

Oh and something about this post just didn't sit well with me...

Agreed. It looks like a lot of parroting of everything that's already been said, and it also looks kind of forced (i.e. he had to give opinions, but these opinions don't look real).

FoS AntB

I think he's implying more along the lines of a town-controlled "you pass it to Y or face the consequences".

And by angeling it that way, X gets a chance of saying why he didn't passed it to Y in his defense-speech

If the passer tries to give excuses, we simply lynch them. If they say they tried to pass the ability but it failed, we ask everyone if they've seen an ability that could affect the transfer. If they just give some other random excuse, we lynch them on the spot.

Oh, and either a scum died or a very questionable townie who considered "someone just gave me the bomb" a real post died, so the result of the bomb is pretty good.

[implosion]

Wrath might be a good target for a dayvig. However, unless there's some kind of time limit, we could treat this like a second lynch. Opinions are good. The more opinions we have, the more this dayvig will reveal.

AntB's response to my fos is... adequate.

I also agree with themanhimself's sentiments that chkflip isn't acting like I'd expect him to act so far. I've also only played minimally with chkflip, but he just isn't acting as... actively, I guess, as the other cases I've played with him.

I'd also like Helghast to say something that isn't a joke or asking if Parama's ability is lethal.

Also, everyone else who hasn't posted anything substantive needs to post something substantive. This game is gonna get fast-paced very quickly... we already have a flip, and another flip soon is likely.

[implosion]

[quote=Saint]As of Implosions post #31, I would personally love to see if this guy can be lynched. Who is to say he isn't scum who got the shaft and just got a voteless ability? I suppose he would end up getting caught up in that... in his #40 where he's like "someone would have caught that my vote didn't count" my counter-argument is why did you vote at all? I would rather you have not said anything about this! also his #47... is that how treestumps normally work? i always thought they can't gain votes. i really, really, really want to test this. i feel like he is lying scum. Also, it's funny to me (or hinky as babyspice would say!) that implosion and pops always post back-to-back. Sure, in his #31, claiming it ahead of time seems pro-town, but who is to say that he couldn't do that as scum?[/quote]

Why did I vote as all? Lets say I didn't vote at all. A few pages later, a random person asks me why I haven't voted yet. Ergo, I claim. Easy test to prove that I'm unlynchable: have the person I pass the treestump to confirm it. I don't think this is how a standard treestump works, I think this is just an ability that kunk put in the game that he decided to call treestump for lack of a better name.

[implosion]

Parama is just as likely as anyone else to be town.

You have nothing to say about one of the most noteworthy people in the game? None of his actions make him any townier or scummier? I think he's town right now, what's your opinion about him?

In fact, why don't we vote on who it should go to tomorrow and then if it doesn't go to that person then we have a good scumlink, if it does go to that person then we have it in the hands of someone that most people don't believe is scum.

Good idea, especially when the scum kill that person and the dayvig winds up in the void.

I say we VOTE: Implosion and see what happens. If he's telling the truth then it's null

Losing the day's lynch ≠ null, especially when there's an easy way to confirm that I'm unlynchable today that I mentioned in my last post.

FoS: themanhimself

. I also don't like him saying "Sooooooooooo........ seems like a scum hit? Nice job parama." It seems

really

forced. He also appears to be avoiding taking stances on the main topics of discussion (namely diddin and Parama).

@curiouskarmadog - when you suggested your supposed breaking strategy, did you notice the caveat that nonstandard abilities wouldn't work?
@AntB - what do you mean by a "Corrupted Server ability?"

lack of voting =/= unlynchable, so you could be pulling the wool over our eyes. Can you concede that point?

As I said, easy way to confirm it is to have the person I give it to tonight just confirm that they are unlynchable. They'd have no reason to lie unless they were scum, which would be impossible if I were also scum in the same faction.

As for diddin, yes, we are going to treat his shot like a second lynch. There is no reason to give the dayvig to someone else to shoot it instead of diddin just because he's scummy. If we elect a target and force diddin to shoot them, he'll shoot them no matter what his/their alignment are.

I don't particularly like how diddin thinks the scummiest thing people have done so far is unvoting without revoting. I think he is scummy. But even if he is scum, there's no reason to go with themanhimself's plan.

[implosion]

I think that if he's town then he's just about normal and if he's scum then he's good but not great. Nothing he's done has really addressed his innocence one way or the other to me. You jumping on me about this seems to me like scum trying to find something where there isn't anything so he can lead a mislynch.

Okay then. Your overdefensiveness and attacking me for attacking you is noted.

This is actually your strategy from post #67, I just applied it to the dayvig role. It's a lot less reckless than pushing a scum to use his killing ability. Besides, this way it almost certainly ends up in town hands tomorrow. If diddin is scum as a lot of people believe then he can't pass it to a scumbuddy so it has to go to town. If diddin is town then it ends up in the hands of someone the town largely believes to be innocent.

That strategy was for roles that are inherently anti-town, and it was intended to get rid of them. Dayvig isn't bad for the town, so there's no reason to do something that will just lose it to the void.

This is a complete logical fallacy. If you're lynched it wouldn't waste our lynch, just nothing would happen. The fact that you don't know how the mechanic works says to me that you may well have made it up. This also seems like someone who knows that their protection is imagined.

lol, did you even bother to read my posts before attacking me? If no, read them and you'll see where I mentioned that a lynch on me forwards the game to night with no lynch. It doesn't do nothing. In fact, after I said this some people commented on it saying it was "convenient" etc, which makes me think you haven't been reading the thread at all...

Parama, I've said multiple times, reads null to me.

Nullread after Parama has done so much seems a little strange to me.

[implosion]

@themanhimself, yeah, I did notice TL's number being used in flavor, but I doubt it means anything.

@implosion DO NOT say who you are passing your ability to, because I don't want you to cop out.

I wasn't planning to.

I shouldn't shoot the stump today. We use my kill today like a second lynch, the player with the stump power passes it on to the scummiest player, AS DECIDED BEFOREHAND by us. Then, tomorrow, the person I give my vigging power to can kill the player with the tree stump ability, taking care of two birds with one stone.

Nah. I've come to the decision that it really isn't going to help much giving a predetermined target to pass my ability to, especially since it's only one ability. I'll pass it, probably but not necessarily to someone I think is scummy, and if the transfer is uninterrupted then the ability will be confirmed. Giving a predetermined target, or any info for that matter about the target that I'm going to pass to, just allows any mafia with the ability to manipulate cycling to cause confusion.

Nullread after Parama has done so much seems a little strange to me.

Why does amount of posts mean you have to have a read on someone? That makes no sense.

Not amount of posts. Amount of action. Parama has been involved in the first kill of the game, justified who he sent his ability to, etc. IMO, looking at those justifications and the person he decided to send the virus to should provide enough information for a non-null read, or at least some kind of opinion.

WHOA. Nero Cain, MAJOR FoS. You called out CKD on posting fluff in your 3rd post; however, your 4 total posts contain pretty much nothing EXCEPT for that vote, in fact. No bueno, my friend.

This is notable and true. 240 as a whole is a nice post as well.

[implosion]

@RC: I'm mad @ u. Your playstyle seems more and more unreadable everytime I play with you.

That's okay because I'm town.

Unreadability is okay when you're town? I'll have to remember that next time I'm scum .

For people that are saying me hammering someone will prove I'm the treestump, the voteless part really isn't up for discussion...
VOTE: AntB
VOTE: themanhimself
VOTE: diddin
Etc etc. None of those will appear on the vote board. The part that people are skeptical about is the unlynchable part. I mean, I'm willing to fakehammer someone, but I don't see what it'll accomplish.

AntB/Saint stuff is interesting, AntB may have a point. Waiting on Saint's response.

L-1->Claim->Treestump Hammer->Diddin shoots claimant unless claim is epic. Should be procedure for first L-1 today.

This is fine, although see above. We should also make sure that we still have some time left in the day when this happens for a real lynch and/or more dayvigging.

[implosion]

assuming that implosion is telling the truth he's unkillable therefore Diddin's kill would not work

The Tree Stump has to declare being the Tree Stump in order for it to go into effect; certainly, it eliminates a vote, but it's D1 for crying out loud.

Yes, which is more of a reason not to declare it.

Why does everyone keep misunderstanding my ability.... I'm unlynchable and voteless, not kill-immune, and it isn't activated, it's passive. I don't have to declare that I'm the treestump.

- 333, potential VI filtered out of the group. Doesn't appear as if we've lost anything but a number. I like to look at it as a good thing. Sure, it's one less townie, but it's also one less vote to lynch D1; which is the greater asset for town? The latter looks much better to me. Moving on.

How does one less vote to lynch on d1 help the town?

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

At this point, I wouldn't support a vigshot on WC. He

really

looks like an easy target for scum to pressure, and I think he's town at this point, particularly from his recent posts. The same goes for Helghast - some of his behavior is strange, but I don't see it as more likely to come from scum than to come from town (he's null). I don't see anything particularly scummy from either of them. If I could vote right now, it'd be on tmh. I'll also nominate him for vigging.

I'm also suspicious of ckd at this point. I mean... the word "eruci" was kind of bright green in AntB's flip. I find it a bit odd that he supposedly misread it as "mod." He didn't notice the thing with nonstandard abilities, thinking that it was a possible breaking strategy... but again, it's a bit odd that he didn't notice this. It could have been an attempt to do something that looked really protown (finding a breaking strategy) while in reality he knew it wouldn't work.

Etherial Cookie is a null read for me. I wouldn't be opposed to a kill on him. I wouldn't be strongly opposed to a kill on Helghast. I would be opposed to a kill on WC at this point.

[implosion]

Sorry for decreasing activity. I'll make a catchup post soon, hopefully tomorrow if I get to it.

[implosion]

Gah freaking school. I have too much to do right now, and I'll be busy tomorrow night and saturday too. I'll make a super-wallpost either Saturday night or Sunday, probably Sunday.

[implosion]

Catching up. The only question is, to wallpost or not to wallpost...

[implosion]

tmh, if you don't advocate a no lynch, why would you even bring up the possibility of it? What does the town gain from you bringing up the possibility of something that gives the town no gain? That post is probably one of the strangest things i came across in my reread.

But even scummier than that is the voting me at all. If he's town then he knows he needs to protect himself to win so he should know that people who defend him are being pro-town. This doesn't mean he should buddy up to me and never examine me again, but I should be reading pro-town to him.

So if player X declares townie Y town, townie Y should think player X is town... interesting.

Hey guys, I just wanna say this... I think everyone in this game is town and you're all awesome . So no one should vote me or you're an antitown scumbag who hates life and likes killing puppies. [/exaggeration][/sarcasm]

I like both leading bandwagons. Which makes me happy. If I had a vote, it'd still be on tmh. Powerrox is scummy just for (as has been said) his declaration of Helghasttown without any evidence. It's basically saying, "hey, this guy is town, i said he was town before he flipped so I was right so we shouldn't lynch me." If he had given a compelling argument that Helghast was town before he flipped, it could very well be a towntell on Powerrox - but in this case, it really isn't and it's just an attempt to look town.

diddin's probably scum too, but that's been gone into enough already. Delaying the shot, etc.

Also I think WC is town. I really don't get the scummy vibe that a lot of people seem to get from him. I'll go into that later if necessary, but he appears to have died town as a topic.

I may have gotten

a bit

really lazy during the end of my reread, so if there's anything important I missed let me know.

@StrangerCoug

, please change your vote to someone with 0 votes on them so we can see if you're a doublevoter or if it's some strange extra vote ability. If you're a doublevoter, it's probably going to be seen anyway.

Also, an extra vote makes sense since I'm missing a vote and the number needed to lynch still reflects the number alive.

Deadline's in 3-4 days btw.

[implosion]

I passed the treestump to curiouskarmadog. I figured he was fairly likely scum, and if he eventually did flip scum then it could clear me, but that he wasn't likely to be today's lynch. Come to think of it, he might be a good vig target.

tmh has the dayvig... -.-
well he's scum.
tmh, do you realize how incredibly anti-town any ability that has the ability to redirect a cycling is? Mafia can't cycle to mafia. So if mafia have an ability, they have to (assuming one faction) cycle to town. If town has it, they'll cycle it to someone who they think is town. If mafia have that ability, they can steal abilities from players that have them (basically what you did). In fact,

If you are in reality town, you should have given your ability to the most antitown player you could and then shot them.

Taking the dayvig for no reason when you were the second-largest bandwagon yesterday is

NOT

good.

MoI passed his ability to me. It is clear what ability he had.

MoI died, he shouldn't have been able to pass anything on... right?

I got no abilities.

We aren't claiming if we got abilities or not, read MoI's post. What you did here is essentially claiming VT in a normal game. Bad.

DBE needs to pick it up.

Probably.

Wow parama. What are the odds the mod lied to us and parama is actually a jester?

TMH just claimed scum btw.

IMO, he claimed scum the second he said he passed the dayvig to himself.

At this point, I am contemplating simply lynching TMH with the dayvig. I have a bad feeling that at this point it's going to cause nothing but failure. Probably not gonna do it, but I'm considering it.

For the moment, VOTE: DBE

[implosion]

themanhimself - D1, Busdriver Ability,

passed it along to Diddin.

Either I missed this or it's wrong.

[implosion]

EBWOP: I didn't read diddin's posts, nvm.

[implosion]

Also, I'll be

V/LA Friday and Saturday.

[implosion]

Are we assuming the Shotgun to MoI was Vig and Purge to Chk was Mafia?

I don't think MoI would have been vigged (at least, not by a townie). I think MoI's death is likely the result of the mafia nightkill.

Agreed, and the word "purge" seems less likely to be mafia flavor anyway.


@the Bunnylover slip; IMO Bunny is town. I think the mistake is just thinking that the "void" of the VT PM is an ability and getting confused over that. I can see town doing this, even if I am the one who found the slip first.

@DBE/LMP 987-988; agreed with LMP 100%.

@IAI 991; Treestumping tmh tomorrow is a good idea. It could both get rid of the treestump and (bonus) assuming tmh is scum (which I am about 99% sure of)

it can confirm curiouskarmadog's alignment; if he fails to treestump tmh, he's mafia. If the treestump dies with tmh, he's town.

What do people think about this plan?

@IAI 995; talking about the void, I'm really not sure about. It really depends on whether or not there is an ability that affects the void, how it would work, etc... and the majority or entirety of the town doesn't know any of that.

@pops 1014; this is interesting. A Bunny flip could actually provide a

lot

of information even if Bunny is town. Still better to kill scum for now, though.

@Bunny 1031; lol, Saint is gonna rage. Not a terrible choice to send it to.

@Nero Cain 1051; this reads OMGUS to me. You're attacking quadz for attacking you, plain and simple, as far as I can tell... his question was completely legitimate.

@ckd (929), I really didn't think that far ahead and wanted to get rid of the stump. Also, just to confirm that you received the treestump, you should vote for someone.

My vote remains for now on DBE.

Other miscellaneous question: should tmh claim who he passed the busdriving ability to and/or whoever has the ability claim that they have it? Not only is it an incredibly antitown ability, but this could lead to yet another confirmed townie. In fact, can anyone think of

any

pro-town reason for the busdriving ability to exist, or should it be passed to tmh tonight as well?

[implosion]

I had no abilities yesterday

Okay.

and I have none today.

[insert rage here]
Read the thread first please.

[implosion]

I'd like the bomb to go to Darla. My reads on Bunny and WC are null at worst, probably both leaning town.

[implosion]

The problem with lynching diddin is that if TMH passed the bus driving ability to diddin and TMH is mafia, isn't diddin confirmed town?

[implosion]

The problem with lynching diddin is that if TMH passed the bus driving ability to diddin and TMH is mafia, isn't diddin confirmed town?

That's rather the point. If diddin is mafia, then TMH is confirmed town, and both of them have been scummy. If we lynch diddin today, we can clear TMH now AND remove the ability busdriver, whereas we want to wait until tomorrow to lynch TMH, since he has the dayvig. I'll go over both of them in ISO soon and see if one reeeeally stands out, but assuming they're about the same, I think that diddin should be the lynch today. It gives us more info, faster, which is reeeeeeally important right now.

Something is wrong here. TMH didn't claim to pass anything to Diddin. TMH's BD ability seems like it would override alignment restrictions. I'd like the BD ability removed from this game, but I don't think TMH has claimed who he sent it to yet.

diddin said that he received it. And quadz, I'm pretty damn sure tmh is mafia, and I'm pretty damn sure that 90% of the town is pretty damn sure that tmh is mafia, which makes a diddin lynch a mislynch. Bus driving seems like it would be a standard ability - but I'd suspect that actually using the ability could bypass passing restrictions.

[implosion]

I can definitely see the people who were pushing diddin's lynch as scummy, especially RC. diddin, if you aren't allowed to not use your ability, just use it on yourself and force yourself to pass it to tmh.

RedCoyote, obviously, if you are town, you should advocate the lynches of members of the mafia. I ask you a simple question, then; do you think themanhimself is scum, yes or no? If yes, then why the fuck are you pushing on diddin? How can they

possibly

be scum together if they are passing abilities back and forth? diddin proved that he had the dayvig yesterday; if tmh proves he has it today, then they

cannot both be scum

, and if there's some strange ability that allows them to be, it'll come up eventually.

You've done good to sell everyone on the idea that theman's alignment will confirm you, but the town doesn't have the luxury to sit back and speculate on Day 3 ability swapping theories.

Speculate on ability swapping theories? Every ability-swapping ability should be revealed by now (or possibly tomorrow) as they are all antitown, so no speculation is necessary. How could tmh and diddin possibly both be mafia?

Also DAMMIT DIDDIN GET BACK HERE SO YOU CAN PASS IT TO DARLA
NO ONE TALK TOO MUCH UNTIL HE PASSES IT

She never at any point intended to eat the virus.

THIS * 100000

[implosion]

Okay, we can spam now.

[implosion]

Or possibly wait some time until Darla gets the PM. Either way, I have other stuff to do, so I leave it up to other people.

[implosion]

And by Darla getting the PM i mean The Eruci sending it, not Darla responding to it.

[implosion]

Or whichever one activates the countdown.

[implosion]

How could tmh and diddin possibly both be mafia?

If they're not on the same team. If it's allowed to

use

a power on a fellow scum.

Think about it. If your teammate had the vig ability, wouldn't you want to take it from him? That's two townkills in a row.

You ignore themanhimself's passing of the busdriver to diddin. Fun fact: diddin will flip town if we lynch him. tmh will flip scum if we lynch him (but he has the dayvig, so he goes tomorrow), unless the busdriver was passed into the void, which is VERY unlikely and would show up later anyway when tmh dies either with or without it.

[implosion]

RedCoyote, obviously, if you are town, you should advocate the lynches of members of the mafia. I ask you a simple question, then; do you think themanhimself is scum, yes or no? If yes, then why the fuck are you pushing on diddin? How can they

possibly

be scum together if they are passing abilities back and forth? diddin proved that he had the dayvig yesterday; if tmh proves he has it today, then they

cannot both be scum

, and if there's some strange ability that allows them to be, it'll come up eventually.

Ummm... tmh has already revealed the existence of such an ability. What would confirm diddin upon tmh's death is that tmh passed the evil interfering ability to diddin.

Sorry, I meant any other abilities that could interfere with transferring.

[implosion]

I'd vote RC to be vigged, or possibly ckd. As I think more about it, diddin is a plausibly decent target since he has the busdrive, but I don't like that he can only be mafia if tmh is town.

[implosion]

You guys shoot whoever you want. I can't find scum in this game and I just give up. Well I can't totally give up, I've got a duty to play to my wincon, but I am going to take a break. I've read too many players wrong this game, I need some time to develop a new angle on this game. Or more information.

Frankly, I'm starting to feel this way a bit too. I really like the game concept/setup idea, but the town just seems to be imploding . We need to hit scum soon.

[implosion]

Of course, we could just ask whoever night-vigged last Night to step forward, as I don't think anyone has claimed it.

I'm in favor of this. I don't see a downside, anyway.

Agreed. If no one comes forward then we know we're dealing with either an SK or a second faction. If it is a vig that's another lynch for us.

Yes, if there's a vigilante ability, then knowing who had it last night will definitely help the mafia kill it. Obviously. I mean, it's not like it would have been passed or anything.

Also, frankly:

--THE DAYKILL IS CONNECTED TO THE VIRUS
--WE ARE NOT GUARANTEED TO GET THE VIRUS BACK (in fact

I'd prefer it if we didn't

)
--DO NOT BANK ON HAVING IT

I agree with, particularly the bolded. I mean, actually thinking about it, the virus is not a good way to kill people. If we tell person x to just sit back and die, if they are town they may oblige, but if they're mafia they'll just pass it to someone else (if they're going to die anyway they'd have no reason not to pass it on), so it's more likely to hit town than mafia.

Frankly, I'm considering the benefits of just lynching tmh today. It would get us started with our first mafia hit (if he's town I may quit this site), which could help raise morale, it could clear diddin (or at least clear him from one mafia faction if it's multiball), and the daykill is so variable that the more I think about it, the less I want it here. I mean, it's caused two miskills already. The only argument I've heard against that is that it gains information... so what, people are talking all the time, that should be plenty of information, and information is not worth miskills.

[implosion]

Knowing the roles helps them control their flow

How is this and why would you know this? Is one role easier to "control the flow of" than another??? Also,

themanhimself

- Please tell me if it is possible for Mafiosi to pass each other abilities with the Driver. If it doesn't say, ask for mod clarification.

In fact, both diddin and tmh should answer this.

Also, since I don't appear to be voting at the moment, VOTE: RedCoyote, I've already explained why I think he's scummy (pushing for diddin lynch mostly).

On the option of lynching tmh - it would clear diddin, after which we could have the doctor prot- er, the watcher wat- er, um... never mind...

Even if it'd get rid of the busdrive, I'd rather not lynch diddin since he's town unless it's multiball.

Gut still says ckd scum too, but that's for another time obviously.

Also, to all the people saying pops is scum, I've frankly had a towntell on him since the beginning of day one, and still do. I also think Saint is town at this point.

---

An open question to everyone: how valuable do you consider the dayvig to actually be? Would you be willing to try the following or some version of it:
We give diddin a list of a few people, and he randomly busdrives the dayvig to one of them(so that in case he's scum, he can't use it elsewhere, and to minimize chances of dayvig winding up in the void). ckd passes the stump to tmh. Either shoot him or organize a group of people to spam during times that he isn't online.

Actually, that might be a decent way to control the virus kill... pass it to someone then spam while they're sleeping... it's devious yet could work.

[implosion]

That isn't the question - the question is, can a mafia member use the bus driver ability to redirect an ability from one member of their scumgroup to another?

[implosion]

Don't have the right to?

Here, I'll even write your pm for you.

Code: Select all

Mod, about that bus driver ability I had yesterday, can mafia use it to pass abilities between mafia members?

[implosion]

I already did vote,

Mod, I'm voting redcoyote

.

[implosion]

UNVOTE: themanhimself
VOTE: curiouskarmadog

*cough* treestump *cough*

Yes to both of IAI's questions btw.

[implosion]

I will be

V/LA Thursday-Sunday

for a debate trip, by the way. Not sure about quadz wagon, but I'm unlikely to have time to examine it thoroughly (busy week).

[implosion]

I had the treestump d1 and passed it to ckd (as we know, just reposting for clarity).

I had two abilities yesterday and passed them both to people who are still living.

"purged" is confirmed for a vig ability now (unless multiball, but I doubt mafia would kill RC), which makes "shotgunned" the mafia nightkill flavor (assuming that the mafia nightkill isn't cyclical) which makes me think it isn't multiball, which makes this a lot simpler. That is, unless "shotgunned" is another cycling ability, but speculation is probably useless. Either way, the "shotgunned" ability was almost definitely with the mafia last night (be it factional or cyclical) considering that it targeted soon-to-be confirmed town diddin (well, soon to be if they hadn't killed him).

And yeah, lynch tmh, but first we go through what we need to go through with claims as outlined in IAI's pre-made post.

If the virus is still in play, whoever has it should probably say so.

[implosion]

In other news, IAI is town. There is no way IAI could be scum. No way at all.

Agreed to a fairly large extent.

I thought it was obvious. Yes, I had a role but did not pass it on. However, I did kill RedCoyote, who scored high in the scumputer.

Ooooh! We found the vig and/or SK, VOTE: DrippingGoofball because there's no evidence that you're a vig

Completely legitimate reason is completely legitimate... oh wait dammit, I keep forgetting, there's no sarcasm on the internet.

Also, is there a reason why TMH is still alive? Is he, like, so pro-town that he can shoot townies and wagon them all day long with impunity? Because so far, townies are dying, and the scumz aren't. This is a scumteam that is not bus'ing. Distancing maybe, but not significantly bus'ing.

...he probably should have died on day one. Yesterday we wanted the dayvig to survive... that was probably a lot of wasted effort >_<

Would like to see everyone's Top 3 suspects please. Also please chime in if I should or should not send the TreeStump to the next scummiest player after TMH, being that TMH is the likely lynch today.

TMH (explained), ckd (explained, suspicious of random sending as a cop-out for not sending to who he was supposed to), Nero Cain (a little more weakly, but I don't like his recent play).

Post 1930

Attempting to call the whole scumteam (or at least close to it) is probably futile, but this analysis is interesting.

Other news: I'd vote TMH but

TMH is at L-2 right now by my count

so I'll hold off for now, since there's no reason to rush. I'd also like everyone to PLEASE pay attention to IAI's guidelines, people are still misreading/failing to follow them *points at the post above this*.

[implosion]

As I said, I had two abilities on night two. I passed one to IAI, and one to popsofctown.

Just to be clear and provide some encouragement, since i have a minute online:

Everyone post who you sent the abilities that you HAD NIGHT TWO (that is, the abilities that you claimed yesterday, but didn't say who you sent them to). DO NOT claim what those abilities were. We will eventually, but

DO NOT YET say whether or not you had any abilities yesterday.

Failure to comply today may or may not result in a policy lynch.

[implosion]

I stopped the missing scum kill. IAI knows how.

I had an ability last night.

Once we know who you protected, we have two confirmed townies for the scumputer.

LynchMePls, there was a Hibernate Ability out there as well, so please do not say any more at this time.

Besides, who said that he protected anyone? He said IAI knows how he may have saved someone, and IAI says there may be another way.

[implosion]

need to catch up...will try to get to it on sunday...

I did get an ability last night...I did not have anything to pass.

...
There was a reason I posted IAI's plan in size 100 font
...
rage

Can we lynch him? Seriously, he didn't pass the stump to TMH, he failed the plan after I posted it in giant can't-miss letters... I honestly think the only reason he's saying he has an ability so that we don't lynch him, whether or not he actually has an ability.

VOTE: CKD

---

Other news: we need to get rid of the treestump soon (within the next couple days). The game is progressing, and it's becoming a real possibility that the game could end a day early due to a stumped townie/mafia on lylo.

[implosion]

@ Implosion, q21, BunnyLover, DrippingGoofball, please confirm how many roles you had D3/N3 that you had to pass on.

@ LynchMePls, popsofctown, nhammen, Curiouskarmadog, Implosion, q21, BunnyLover, DrippingGoofball, please say whether you purged Nero Cain or not.

(IAI, SC, Saint, and WC have all claimed not to have purged Nero Cain)

I had two roles again.

I didn't purge NC.

[implosion]

@ Everyone, please state in your next post if you think at this point in the game, whether we should mass claim our roles from D1/N1 & D2/N2? And why you feel that way.

I've been thinking about this since early game. I'm not totally opposed to it, however one of the abilities I've had over the course of the game would have some possible negative repercussions if fully claimed (probably not, but maybe). Note: it isn't one of the abilities that we've been discussing today. I'd still probably overall be in favor of a d1/d2 massclaim. It could drastically simplify everything.

[implosion]

please explain to me how claiming is scummy

What reason does a town player have to say "hey guys, i'm a power role right now, scum can get rid of it by killing me tonight?" In effect, that's what claiming a power role does.

[implosion]

The role you sent to me N2 that I passed on N3 is another one that I think we should out. Not sure I should take my information to the grave, you know? What are your thought on this role being outted?

Yeah. Definitely a role that should be outed. It's a tracker. I didn't get anything useful out of it. Forgot to mention, other reason that I figure it's a good idea to massclaim roles is that if you think about it, each role only needs to be in mafia hands once for the whole mafia team to learn about it. On the other hand, when a role goes to a townie, only that townie learns about it. So massclaiming essentially gives us information about the setup that the mafia will likely already have known.

Also, I had the roleblocker last night. I epically failed and blocked Nero Cain >_<.

please explain to me how claiming is scummy

What reason does a town player have to say "hey guys, i'm a power role right now, scum can get rid of it by killing me tonight?" In effect, that's what claiming a power role does.

QFT

The three players with votes currently are the best 3 candidates today. I am curious to see where everyone lines up on these three, as I doubt all 3 are scum...

We aren't lynching pops btw. I'm fairly confident that pops is town. DGB, i'm not sure about at the moment. ckd is scum. He dies today, regardless of the role he's carrying.

[implosion]

If I were to vote now, it would be ckd. Are we voting?

I don't think we need to yet. Still time to organize, tally abilities, and claim any useful early-day abilities.

[implosion]

I tracked StrangerCoug, and he didn't go anywhere that night.

implosion - should I claim my day 1 role... I get the impression that that's the role you're suggesting is kept quiet.

Yeah, it is.

[implosion]

BTW if ckd flips scum that would make me confirmed town and IAI confirmed town (although I'm pretty sure I'll cut myself if he's mafia) and likely others as well, and as such I'd like to request protection from any roles that are capable of it. That is, the role reuser (or whatever it was called) should take doctor, and it and any other protective roles should be on confirmed townies, IMO.

I see no reason we can't wait a day or so to claim it though. It's really not going to help out the town to know about it. It's pretty useful if you use it as an investigative role, but we can wait until someone finds scum with it before we claim it. Don't you think?

Agreed.

Time out. Why is CKD getting off the hook for his failed Tree stump pass to TMH?

*headdesk*

ckd's Tree Stump pass, on its own, is worth a lynch.

This may take a reread to confirm, which I don't really feel like doing since this may be answerable with a simple question, but didn't you have a fairly strong townread on CKD even after he failed to pass the stump? I might be mixing stuff up chronologically, but if not, I think this might be an incredibly blatant contradiction.

But somehow I don't think the mod is treating the watcher ability like a recessive sex-linked genetic disorder

I lol'd.

[implosion]

Maybe. I'm honestly not sure if there are any strong upsides or downsides to claiming it. I can think of one possible upside of claiming it possibly during twilight, so I guess we might as well at some point.

[implosion]

I don't really have much new to say right now. Regardless of whether or not DGB is SK, we lynch CKDscum.

[implosion]

CKD lynch > DGB lynch.

And I still don't have anything to add >.>

[fluff goes here]

If the day goes on much longer, I'll try to add something to the convo. But for now, ckd lynch is the way to go. Possibly DGB later, but CKD now. I mean seriously... he should be considered essentially confirmed scum >.<.

[implosion]

I'm sorry, I'm really tired right now. What's the current claims plan (i.e. claim what and in what order)? I'll make a goodpost tomorrow hopefully.

[implosion]

Sorry for inactivity >.> catching up.

[implosion]

Yeah, DGB had hibernate last night, I gave it to her (seemed like a good idea at the time, etc etc). That's also part of the reason why i was pushing for ckd over DGB, because I didn't want hibernate to disappear. I don't have hibernate right now.

DGB, can you give details about exactly what happens to the abilities you've "shelved" if you are killed (which you've already said), and what is different during the day vs during the night?

Also yeah, I'm pretty sure SC is Daevori at this point. I'd still probably prefer a lynch on DGB, because her claim is just really weird and in case she has some odd wincon (someone brought up the possibility of outlasting daevori?). Need details though.

At this point, with 4 dead scum, it honestly isn't a huge concern even if the treestump/disconnect were to be rereleased at random.

@pops: hangman.

[implosion]

I still think SC is scum. I somehow doubt that a lone remaining scum in 8 remaining players would do something so damn conspicuous. Kind of too scummy to be scum, and in other respects I don't think he's that scummy. It wasn't necessarily intentional, he said in his last post that he was traveling or something. I agree that RBing you was retarded, LMP, but I still think SC is a better lynch.

Also, WC, LMP is incredibly protown lol... not sure why you aren't seeing that.

SUPER-ULTRA-MEGA-VOTE: WrathChild

So when did this ability come into play?

[implosion]

Also, new kill flavor is kind of disconcerting.

[implosion]

Hm... I have an idea, one that might make this day substantially smoother and potentially a much better shot at winning. First, we carry out IAI's plan (the part of his post before the ********). Then, I might decide to say my plan depending on what happened, what is claimed, etc.

Also, IAI, reread the void collector ability. There's something of note that I think you might be forgetting. Not sure if it should be made public or not, but it may be of note.

[implosion]

Also, I just had a sudden idea about the bleeding blood kill flavor. Could it, perhaps, be some new mechanic that kicks into play once there's only one Daevori left?

I say this because I remember a while ago pops mentioning the possibility that the scum kill was an ability that could be cycled between them, and I thought it would make a lot of sense. Looking at the player list and who died what night, I think it might be possible that:
1) q21's partner had the shotgun and passed it to q21, but it wound up in the void so "bleeding blood" replaced it or;
2) "bleeding blood" is a new flavor that kicks into play once only one Daevori is left, because it's no longer possible to cycle the shotgun;
3) either way, it's possible that bleeding blood is a strongman kill for some form of protection (firewall or hibernate), or for both. It could be some kind of "ace in the hole" when mafia are almost dead.

Not gonna speculate too much about this, but there's a chance that something like this could screw up plans.

[implosion]

I didn't send the void collector to pops.

I'm gonna go through with my plan.

As circumstance turns out,

I am in possession of both roleblocking and tracking, but not the resuer ability.

Therefore,

the reuser should WATCH me tonight, not IAI or Saint

(not doctor in case it doesn't work, we don't want all eggs in one basket).

We lynch StrangerCoug. I block WrathChild. I track Bunnylover.

If the last scum (assuming one scum) is SC or WC, i shouldn't be able to die. if there's 2 scum left and SC flips scum, then if i die that would confirm WC. if I'm alive, or there's no kill, then we'll still have every ability and we can go from there.

The thing about this plan is that, now that I've suggested it, we kind of have to go with it .

Thoughts?

---------------------

I asked the mod, and apparently "bleeding blood" can be blocked by hibernate. Still probably better to be safe.

[implosion]

Yep.

VOTE: StrangerCoug

[implosion]

Aw. Now-useless plan is now useless.

I'd also play in this again. Fun game, fun mechanic.

And lets see... I called CKD and TMH on day one. I didn't really have many other reads then that I can remember, probably because they wound up being wrong .