PYP 4: New Homes, Same Problems (Day 5)

[inHimshallibe]

Then, gandalf, you really should take more time to consider what you're posting before you do such.

Yay Town!

[xvart]

Good game everyone. In all honesty I didn't really enjoy it too much (and no offense to SpyreX, I'm glad I played) other than the player list as I felt like the game didn't really rely on scumhunting that much as the game felt pretty mechanical. I mean seriously, I was pulling my hair out with gandalf seeming like he was going to get off the hook. I wonder if the draft process was modified somehow that would change the methodical nature of the number theory. I know some people really dig that but from my perspective I felt like I was just waiting for orders all game.

Thanks, SpyreX for modding. Despite my comments here I am glad I played.

Oh, and Guderian, I know I already said this but wanted to clarify further that I wasn't trying to call you a liar about your brother and the whole vacation thing, but in one place you said you were gone two weeks and one place you said 1.5 weeks and the 1.5 put you on the deadline and with the instant night mechanic I thought the possibility existed that I might catch you where you would have had to submit an action for it to go through but claimed your brother did it. It wasn't a personal attack on your credibility or your honesty (as a human).

[PranaDevil]

I'll be honest, in both the last game, and in this one, I've found that following Fate has fared me rather well when it comes to who to lynch. Though I was glad I investigated Cupcake when I did as that would have been an easy mislynch. And Elli/Nacho was looking likely to slide under the radar had I not investigated him/her. (Although I will admit that's about all I contributed in regards to the game, as I was wrong on pretty much all my reads there).

[Guderian]

No worries xvart. Didnt know what you were aiming at, but you seem like a really nice guy.

Make a PYP5 soon spyrex! This was fun, but another could be even more fun!

[xvart]

Gud - I appreciate that. I always hate the line of inquiry regarding people's personal lives and hate questioning along those lines since it's distasteful and there is no way to confirm it either way, but I felt okay with the line of questioning because I was questioning along the lines of you being present before your brother took over. I also know that one has to be careful when going down the roads of real life because I know there have been times (under different circumstances) that I would have just snapped if anyone questioned the legitimacy of my RL claims (which is why I usually just leave it out until endgame).

[Hoopla]

I wonder if the draft process was modified somehow that would change the methodical nature of the number theory. I know some people really dig that but from my perspective I felt like I was just waiting for orders all game.

It's only methodical because scum are methodical and suck at planning.

[xvart]

So Hoopla, what would you think about a scum team not coordinating their number selection pre game and only coordinating the role picking after the draft was announced? Do you think that would have had any merit? In this game, I don't think it would have hurt since the scum was obliterated, but would any natural advantage to planning out number selection be negated by completely being random occurrence?

[Hoopla]

So Hoopla, what would you think about a scum team not coordinating their number selection pre game and only coordinating the role picking after the draft was announced? Do you think that would have had any merit? In this game, I don't think it would have hurt since the scum was obliterated, but would any natural advantage to planning out number selection be negated by completely being random occurrence?

If scum submitted their numbers in a truly random manner, then there is a very real chance they could double up unwittingly - it almost happened this game, but Jack changed Zodiark's numbers for him, because they were doubling up with Gandalf's numbers. I think there are ways to get around number analysis and use it to your advantage as scum - myself, Jack, Faraday and Socrates did in PYP2 quite effectively, though it was taken less seriously back then.

As a general rule, the more methodical and predictable a type of analysis becomes, the easier it becomes to dodge it or manipulate it in ways favourable for your scumteam. I think it'll only take one game of the numbers being wrong and causing a string of mislynches for that type of play to self-correct and become less prevalent. For the last two games, scumteams have been behind the curve and have been trapped. Other games operate in a similar manner in regards to scumtells - an ongoing arms race, with scum and town trying to be one move ahead. I think that mechanic is just a lot more obvious in these games, as it's been the go-to thing for analysis, when in other games, there aren't many tells or forms of analysis which are more dominant than the others.

Once scum figure out counter-strategies for number analysis, the game will open up and fall back on the reservoir of behavioural tells we normally rely on in other games. I think that's a game or two away, though. I also don't think random selection is a very good way of beating number analysis...

[chkflip]

And I was so close to getting lynched. Grr, argh.

I woulda done it, too, if it weren't for those meddlin' kids.

SpyreX

: I'd like to start by saying that this is the most interesting tweak to mafia that I've seen so far, very innovative and different than the normal "randomly given" aspect. Very surprised (9,5) got third place. I'm just glad I didn't pick (6,1). >.<

Good game town, I'm glad I could help attain this victory.

loljk~

[SpyreX]

I've got a couple other games in mind but remember: I don't hold any special rights to this. In fact, someday, it'd be kinda fun to play in one so if you cant think of a good idea but want to mod one well....

[Fate]

Lol Neighborized with scum streak.


HEY HOOPLA, now that its all said and done: was I wrong or RIGHT that you wanting the gunsmith to claim was anti-town?

I had it read correctly: IF gandalf was scum he was most likely ACTUALLY a vanilla to town gunsmith, aka outing the TOWN gunsmith was stupid. And since it was YOU being anti-town I got all crazy

Also read your ISO from the last game, where you were town, and compare it to here.


My paranoia was justified.

[Hoopla]

HEY HOOPLA, now that its all said and done: was I wrong or RIGHT that you wanting the gunsmith to claim was anti-town?

I don't think it would have made much of a difference either way.

Also read your ISO from the last game, where you were town, and compare it to here.


My paranoia was justified.

That's what you get for operating under a sample size of one, I suppose. If you're going to use meta to make your decisions, do it properly.

[Fate]

They killed chkflip N1, not Volkan.

Re-reading the qt Im not sure why they did that, but yeah I think it would've made a difference.

Regarding meta: I don't go LOOKING through people's meta, jeez, I use meta in games IVE been in with them.


/in moar imo.

[Katsuki]

Because claimed or unclaimed vollkan would have made a difference (in hindsight)...

[Fate]

There was no reason to believe scum had two roleblockers D1, therefore no reason to believe that outing the Gunsmith would've "not really mattered either which way"

[Hoopla]

They killed chkflip N1, not Volkan.

Re-reading the qt Im not sure why they did that, but yeah I think it would've made a difference.

I gave a pretty lengthy explanation for my motives somewhere on Day 2, which covers pretty much everything. I don't know why you want to debate this now, but if you do, go respond to that instead.

[LlamaFluff]

I think one interesting thing still would be town taking the inverter. I actually debated it this game so that I could say beyond a doubt that all cop results were truthful, and we would not have the discussion of how much results should be trusted.

Also for Ben - Watcher is argueably better then cop since it can lean power roles to being scum/town since they are able to judge the intention of the roles as opposed to just getting an alignment. If the watcher targets the cop, he might be able to figure out the weak doc is town, or who the roleblocker is, or that scum used vanilla-izer. There is the potential for the watcher to clear or half clear or even catch scum with their role as opposed to cop that gets one (arguebaly dependable) alignment each night. In a game where you know where the strong roles are more likely to be, watcher can be brutal. No doubt it would have been my choice if I somehow ended up with a top pick.