Mini #1081 - SitMOA Mafia (Endgame... Congrats, winners!)

[SpyreX]

Thats not making the town pay though. That is absolute shutdown.

[gandalf5166]

True. But only if town is stupid enough to drive people to claim that early anyways. I'm not saying I like the way its implemented, but I like the concept.

[Riceballtail]

1.) Flavor:
Abjurer,

Creator

, Diviner, Illusionist, Transmuter, Universalist, Enchanter,

Pyromancer

, Sorcerer.

Where did you get your flavor from? The bolded, especially considering every other piece fits right, do not. I even second guessed myself a bit on chess (if it was anyone BUT chess I would have been really twitchy) because following the pattern and having two outliers just doesn't make sense.

Had I been alive, I'd have pushed that to a lynch so hard. :\

[Snow_Bunny]

I just kinda thought of my role as a weak commuter with a one shot doc XD (I was so close to casting mirror image N2 as well...Bah) since the other abilities just seemed like mindscrew or unhelpful

Was there any point to invisibility though? An ability that just gives me a post restriction doesn't seem too helpful...

You would appear out of the game, possibly screwing scum plans for that night. Yes, the post restriction wasn't too helpful. But well, some abilities of town weren't exactly helpful.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH MC WAS A HORRIBLE IDEA GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Also technically Gandalf should be aliev since acid arrow wouldn't work once i claimed it, right?

You claimed it after Katsuki died. The antimagic amulet only worked as long as he was alive (although abilities sealed by it remained sealed even after his death).

ThAdmiral -> Fire Lighting Bolt on malthusis (fails due to antimagic amulet)
Why'd it fail?

Also sorry Spyrex, it was a 50/50 on the nightkill

oh and this would have been hilarious:
Spyrex -> Eagle's Splendor on self (fails due to antimagic amulet)
vezok -> Suggestion* on Spyrex to vote for Spyrex

ThAdmiral claimed he was a pyromancer. All of his abilities were sealed because of that, including the vengeful kill.

THANKS FOR THE GAME SNOWBUNNY!!!

YOU'RE WELCOME!!!!!! ^_^

@Mod: How was chess able to target me? I thought I was immune from magic

Read your role pm I posted here, there are some spells that would have affected you as they didn't target you specifically.

[Snow_Bunny]

I guess I'm more awake than I thought.

I'll preface this with good game all (I KNEW I shouldn't have doubted my deep gut when gan didn't vig andrew but alas) but there's some funny business I'd like to discuss:

1.) Flavor:
Abjurer,

Creator

, Diviner, Illusionist, Transmuter, Universalist, Enchanter,

Pyromancer

, Sorcerer.

Where did you get your flavor from? The bolded, especially considering every other piece fits right, do not. I even second guessed myself a bit on chess (if it was anyone BUT chess I would have been really twitchy) because following the pattern and having two outliers just doesn't make sense.

Creation is a subspecialization of Conjuration. All of chesskid spells (Dimensional Door is the exception, I believe), fall into the Creation category. So, he was a Creator, an even more specialized wizard. Not that it's in the rules of D&D anywhere, though. Pyromancer is either a prestige class or the name some evokers get when they specialize in fire spells. I didn't name all roles according to basic specializations as that may lead to some claiming issues.

2.) Abilities that shouldn't ever be used:
-Stinking Cloud (One-shot): Ends the day with a no-lynch. You can use this ability during the day by sending me a PM.
-Invisibility (One-shot): You become invisible until the end of the next day (you can't post but you can vote by sending me a PM).

I can understand putting some silliness in there but both of those just make me itchy. Not like:

3.) :gonk:
-False thoughts (One-shot, trigger): You will come up as townie when you die.
-Antimagic Amulet: Should you become aware of the name of a spell another player have, that spell is permanently blocked. Should you become aware of the role name of a player, all that player's abilities are permanently blocked. These remain blocked even after your death.

I don't like death millers. I really don't like anti-millers. Especially when they have a fakeclaim that paints the real claim in a bad, bad light. MAYBE in a large, but a mini that hurts a lot.

But, that amulet. That godsforsaken amulet.

In a PR-heavy setup like this that one makes me cry tears of blood. It wont impact scum at all (since they're pretty much lying) but it acts as a "get massclaim, town does not win the game" button. Even IF they kill the SK after that point.

I like the idea, but the way it was enacted hurts.

There were some abilities, as you say, that weren't mean to be used. They would have hurt town more than help it. Still, they were there. Sometimes you have to learn NOT to push the button in order to win. The anti-death miller wasn't as bad as a death-miller. In all, you'd think you were in 9-2-1 instead of 8-3-1. It just give her scumbuddies a way to perform a different tactic.

And the amulet, well, I clearly told you in the rules that claiming wasn't a good thing, didn't I? I even posted saying that you should remember the rule, but yet you all went claiming crazy. I know it was a bit heavy on town, and possibly on scum, but that was the point. In such a heavy PR game, scum and sk needed a way to gain the upperhand in case town gets the idea of "let's all mc and break the game, yay!"

This game was largely based on flavour, and that could have possibly broken it. Giving fakeclaims would have worked, but that was not the idea.

I appreciate your feedback, SpyreX.

[ThAdmiral]

I agree that the sk was unbalanced as it affected town way more than it did the scum. Also I don't mind the concept of discouraging a claim but this just very harshly punishes what is normal town behavior. If the power ended when katsuki died it would have made a lot more sense/been a lot fairer, or at least if people were told that they had been rendered useless it would lessen the damage done.

Also 8-3-1 with a death miller? Extremely stacked against the town. It is a miracle we got as close as we did.

I don't want to sound like I am complainig too much. I still enjoyed the game and having this much power in a small game is a fun idea. I also know that I will never claim lightly in a snowbunny game ever again!

/pre in for the next wizards and sorcerers.

[malthusis]

The anti-magic amulet was technically fair game, but the death miller was just cruel. The entire town would have probably revaluated what we were doing if RBT turned up scum.

Also mod, you made a bit of an error in the night actions. I didn't claim Invulnerability at all. I purposely kept it withheld as my "trump card" so to speak. You counted it as it was blocked, though. Here's my claim post:

Nothing's changed, I already claimed a long time ago.....

Anyways I'm an abjurer (specialize in defensive spells).

My 3 spells are:
-Shield (unlimited): Target is protected from a single killing attempt that night.
-Alarm (unlimited-triggered): You are warned if one or more players targeted you that night.
-Arcane Lock (Two-shot): The target can't be targeted nor can perform any actions that night.

See, no invulnerability

[malthusis]

I'm going /pre-in for the next one if I can, but PLEASE no Anti-millers. It's okay if you do something like reveal RBT, ???????? Lynched Day 1, but lying to the players like that is something players never take into account, except in bastard games (which you didn't advertise it as).

[gandalf5166]

Malt, you claimed that you were an abjurer, so you lost ALL your abilities, just like ThAd.

[chesskid3]

I kind of liked the anti-miller in retrospect. The whole is it 8-3-1 or 9-2-1 thing was cool.

[Narsis]

any kind of death miller or anti-death miller has no place in a game unless it is a bastard mod game.

you did give fair warning about the amulet though.

[gandalf5166]

Eh. I don't really think fake flips are that bastard, so long as they're done 1. in good taste and 2. sparingly. I think they were definitely used in good taste in this game.

[SpyreX]

There's other ways to work with flavor that aren't so heavy handed and I'll hold to that. Doubly so since the amulet didn't stop the scum NK (If you're going to make it the death knell make it across the board).

And fake flips in a mini are bad news. A large I could swing behind but a mini has too little 'give' to allow a bounceback.

Not to take anything away it was a fun game and I'd pre-in but I'm still a little surprised at why some things happened the way they did.

[Narsis]

There's other ways to work with flavor that aren't so heavy handed and I'll hold to that. Doubly so since the amulet didn't stop the scum NK (If you're going to make it the death knell make it across the board).

And fake flips in a mini are bad news. A large I could swing behind but a mini has too little 'give' to allow a bounceback.

Not to take anything away it was a fun game and I'd pre-in but I'm still a little surprised at why some things happened the way they did.

also the fact that scum are likely to lie about their abilities (to an extent) meaning that the amulet isn't as effective against them that way either.

i think the reason the amulet didnt stop the one scum NK is so if everyone claimed, the game would essentially become mountainous.

[chesskid3]

Mountainous except for the SK

[ThAdmiral]

I think that would have been fairer/more interesting. A super-powerful sk is a gret idea. I've always believed normal sk's to be underpowered, but when that sk dies his abilities probably should have ceased. IMO.

[Riceballtail]

I was hoping the third party would end up being a Cleric, win condition being "Bring 3 town back to life".

[Snow_Bunny]

I must admit that I had mixed feelings about the anti-death miller when I was building the setup, but I decided to leave it in the end. I didn't think it was going to be that bad.

But don't worry, next one won't have death millers of any sort (but it will have something else... ¬_¬ Nothing bastard, I promise. )

[Snow_Bunny]

I was hoping the third party would end up being a Cleric, win condition being "Bring 3 town back to life".

This is... quite an interesting idea. Hmm...

[andrew94]

@mod, why do i have a kill that makes someone cannot be revived = =

[Snow_Bunny]

@mod, why do i have a kill that makes someone cannot be revived = =

Why not?

[chesskid3]

Mod wifom is best wifom

[andrew94]

made me think theres a resurection thing

[chesskid3]

Mod wifom is best wifom

[ThAdmiral]

I was hoping the third party would end up being a Cleric, win condition being "Bring 3 town back to life".

This is... quite an interesting idea. Hmm...

May I also state that I believe revivers, if used well, are among the best roles in mafia. And that scum/third-party revivers are tres cool.