Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)

[jasonT1981]

In fact look where furclow lands on both wagons
..the end

vote furclow

Making a quick post while I am on.. I actually agree with that. Fur was quick to accuse me of being on wagons when he was at the time on every wagon also. it was pretty hypocritical. go back and look at our exchanges.

I have somewhat come to the conclusion that Ben is probably town because of the exchanges etc however that does not clear him, nor does it excuse his constant insults.

Anyway if I am not about too much, I am sorry. my mother collapsed this afternoon with chest pains and we had to get paramedics out to the house. Not high risk and does not seem very seriouis as they concluded she was alright to stay at home after treatment and not be taken to hospital. However she is still pretty sore. but my mind and attention are elsewhere right now.

[Zachrulez]

1st vote count of day 3 phase 2:

Percy - 2 (I Am Innocent, KaleiÐoscøpe)
Thor665 - 2 (Sotty7, Thor665)
Benmage - 1 (Furcolow)
Furcolow - 1 (Benmage)

Not Voting: (Nul, Percy, JasonT1981)

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch.

Deadline for both phases of day 3 is Monday December 27th at 11am CST.

[Percy]

Percy, I am having serious flash backs to AA.

I know....

Unless he suffers from some kind of personality disorder, I'd say the chances of him being scum are equivalent to the chance of picking out scum from the list randomly.
Verdict... Cleared.

Cleared? Your rhetoric suggests your read is null.

But yes, his interactions with the confirmed scums are minimal AND his activity is little thus raising the probability of him being scum.

If you're talking about Dry-fit, then you're right. There's a whole saga about that.
But it's just not true with Baby Spice, so... lolwut?

@MINA:

I know you're reading this, so I'll answer your questions. Anyone else can read under the cut if they want.

Spoiler: For Mina

I have been fighting this stupid case against me for a long time. When I pushed the Baby Spice case to a lynch in spite of everything, I gotta tell you, I felt vindicated. I accidentally woke my sleepy wife up, I was so excited. The next day when people started voting me

again

... it really made me rage. And you seemed like one of the few sensible ones, who actually saw the case for what it was - lazy, useless dribble.

Then you changed your mind and sounded like you were going to turn on me, just as you started to get negative attention. I saw in your scum narrative a change from earning currency off my mislynch to a desparate attempt to have me lynched instead of you, as I was the most likely mislynch. I pushed a case on you hard, and you're dead now, and I'm sad that you were town.

I didn't like the tone of your "I'm sorry you didn't see this coming and counted me as a close ally." Do you honestly believe this?

No. It was bait.

Your first posts out of the gates were, "Look how town this makes me look, and I can't believe you idiots are

still

wagoning me." You were really trying to maximize the town credit that you deserve for lynching Baby Spice, and it made me paranoid that your primary interest was trying to clear yourself from the suspect pool.

I still like the tone of those posts. I'd say it made me look very fucking town, in the same way the DF case made Benmage look town. And I think those still wagonning me are really bad at this game.

You didn't explain why you were buddying up to a null read. Instead of explaining your thought process, it felt as though you were turning it around on me, what with all the "..?" punctuation marks and the "Really, are you sure you think this?" vibes. I find that some really really good manipulators do this as scum.

Look, what can I say to rebuff this case against me? I've hashed over it so many times. What could I say beyond "You are flat out contradicting yourself" - the burden to explain was on you, not me.

And I'll admit that your sudden suspicions of me made me a lot warier of you. What bothered me was that I'd felt as though you were trying to buddy up to me before. You kept on listing me as a neutral read, saying you were unsure of me, etc., but not

once

did you attack me head-on. Instead, you just kept on agreeing with throwaway comments I made and complimenting me on a read or a funny line. Like I said before, it gave me the feeling that you wanted to keep an ally on your side, but still leave yourself open to suspect me. When I called you on it, you dodged the issue of whether you suspected me, but said you can't help yourself, because my posts are sooooooo great. So then sudden turnaround to "Hmm, I never noticed this before, but you guys are right, and Mina is super scummy, and let's lynch her," set off a bell.

I was unsure of you, but I didn't feel a great need to fix this while I had so many other leads to pursue and this stupid case hanging over my head. But when you started trying to plan the town's destruction and reversed your read on me, my own bells went off.

You're like me when you get caught as scum; you get really mad that you haven't been caught for the right reasons

Well, this is interesting.

What are you talking about? Since the entire case on me is based on connections rather than my own behaviour, the "caught for the wrong reasons" tell would only apply if I'm on a second scum team. I've actually admitted that my interactions with the flipped scum look bad. So it's the opposite--I'm "framed for the right reasons." Please explain just what you mean by this.

"Caught for the wrong reasons" was in response to your attacking me due to Baby Spice interaction rather than defending yourself from Locke. You were ready to defend the turnabout of your read on me, but simply got mad about Locke's case. That's what I thought, anyway.

Also, I'm just curious. Why didn't you notice these contradictory thoughts of mine on Baby Spice until Locke pointed it out?

What can I say? I was concentrating on lynching Baby Spice.

Now, from beyond the grave, I bring this:

Guys, can you wagon Kaleidoscope during phase 2, even if you don't lynch him? The slot could use a bit of pressure. Please get him to answer these questions:

Kaleidoscope:

1) Why do you suspect Percy? Give us reasons. You mentioned that you hated his post about the Kingmaker. But on D1, was there anything else?
2) Why were you willing to explain to Percy before why you suspected Red Coyote, but not willing to explain to me why you suspected Percy?
3) I don't think you've answered this:

Why did you change your vote to RC at this point? I don't understand. You had said before that you were voting me only because of the size of the wagon. Moving your vote at this point made RC the bigger wagon by one vote because you moved from me. So, plz2explain?

Vote count before you switched from Percy to Red: 5 Percy vs. 4 Red
Vote count after you switched from Percy to Red: 5 Red vs. 4 Percy

You see why "I voted for the biggest bandwagon" doesn't fly?

4) What were your thoughts on Baby Spice vs. Lrdwhyt/Empking? Why didn't you ever weigh in on the leading wagons? Who would you have voted for had you chosen between the two wagons before the deadline? Be honest.

Vote: KaleiÐoscøpe

I think Benmage is town because of the way he pushed the Dry-fit case.
I think I Am Innocent is town for a variety of reasons, and those reasons are all independent of my other thoughts about him...
I think the scum's relationship to jason makes him unlikely scum.
I've been wrong before, but gut tells me Sotty is town. If I'm wrong I'm going to cry, but she can be revisited later.

I think Thor is town for both the case against Mina yesterday, and gut. I'm not sure, and should probably re-read him. WTF is with the self-voting? Given we had one instance already in this game makes me
I think Nul's replace-in post was bizarre, but something about his attitude and his predecessor seemed town.

The last two are gut and I could be swayed. Still, KScope is the big hole here. And what I quoted above from Mina is worth reading too. He has coasted through this game, and his ISO speaks for itself.

Time for the rope, KaleiÐoscøpe.

[Thor665]

WTF is with the self-voting? Given we had one instance already in this game makes me

Look at your suspect rankings (and Sotty's while we're at it). look at the number of lynches available, look at me having no real clue as to whom to lynch next other than my vague KScope and Nul pointings. I'm a liability at this stage and shouldn't get to endgame with town and other than Baby Spice have been pretty dorky-der-dappy with my suspects so it's not like it's a great loss.

[jasonT1981]

Im going to put my vote where it should have been all day so far

vote: Percy

Really not liking his #1302 talkling about Mina then votes Scope without any reasoning.

[Sotty7]

vote: percy

i also dislike babyspice's interactions with him

Which interactions in particular?

Percy is town, I'd love to see that wagon die. Kscope and Nul are my top reads for the last scum and I'm coming around to Elmo's replacement being all about busted scum wanting out of his current slot.

You think Elmo is that big of a prick to abandon his post like that? I mean, when Mina brought that up I thought it is a likely town tell that has moved Nul down my list of desired lynches.

Im going to put my vote where it should have been all day so far

vote: Percy

Really not liking his #1302 talkling about Mina then votes Scope without any reasoning.

There was reasoning in there. This is the second post you have misread. Why don't you like him talking about Mina?

JasonT1981
Percy
Furcolow
I Am Innocent/Benmage
Nul
KaleiÐoscøpe
Thor665

Town to scum list. Can't hate a KScope vote, still would rather lynch Thor.

[Furcolow]

why am i not higher on your town list, sotty?

[Furcolow]

In fact look where furclow lands on both wagons
..the end

vote furclow

i get what you're saying
i've seen you do this as town
ergo

unvote

[Thor665]

You think Elmo is that big of a prick to abandon his post like that? I mean, when Mina brought that up I thought it is a likely town tell that has moved Nul down my list of desired lynches.

::shrug:: Okay, he's not.
As I said, I have no flippin' clue anymore - I was just offering what I had before I'm lynched. I really don't care if you think it's stupid and I wasn't trying to be mean to Elmo.

[Sotty7]

why am i not higher on your town list, sotty?

Because to me jason and Percy are more confident town reads. You're getting there and I don't want to lynch you, but not everyone can be number one townie otherwise it would be a failure of a list.

Can you answer my question now please?

[Sotty7]

You think Elmo is that big of a prick to abandon his post like that? I mean, when Mina brought that up I thought it is a likely town tell that has moved Nul down my list of desired lynches.

::shrug:: Okay, he's not.
As I said, I have no flippin' clue anymore - I was just offering what I had before I'm lynched. I really don't care if you think it's stupid and I wasn't trying to be mean to Elmo.

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth there, sorry if it looked that way. I have little experience with Elmo, in fact I am pretty sure this is my first game with him. But from what I have seen around the site he doesn't strike me as that kind of player. To throw his toys out of the pram and stomp away because he was losing.

[jasonT1981]

I don't know, Sotty... it just felt like he is still trying to justify the lynch.. afraid of being called on it or something and feels the need to keep discussing Mina instead of moving forward and trying to hunt scum here and now. I cant put my fingers on it but it did seem strange to me

I admit, my attention to this game is still pretty wavey today. sorry.. however I do still feel Percy is our best option at hitting scum. I have begrudgingly accepted Ben is more than likely town but still iffy over his boasts and saying he is confirmed town and generally acting like an ass thinking he is above everyone and unlynchable.

[Sotty7]

What do you think about Thor?

[Benmage]

Well lets see what happens.

Unvote vote Percy

[jasonT1981]

The self vote is very strange indeed. Seems resigned to his lynch already... making me think slightly it is defeatist scum.

[Zachrulez]

2nd vote count of day 3 phase 2:

Percy - 4 (I Am Innocent, KaleiÐoscøpe, JasonT1981, Benmage)
Thor665 - 2 (Sotty7, Thor665)
KaleiÐoscøpe 1 (Percy)

Not Voting: (Nul, Furcolow)

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch.

Deadline for both phases of day 3 is Monday December 27th at 11am CST.

[Sotty7]

Then jason, I think you know what to do. I will be surprised if Percy flips scum.

[Sotty7]

Lynch-1 as well.

[Furcolow]

it's not letting me post

[Furcolow]

i have a big post it wont let me post
PLACEHOLDER HERE PLEASE

[Furcolow]

I like IAI asking Percy to vote.
I have recently seen a town player do this exact same thing in a sort of way in a live game. "It's your turn to vote"... I view this as

very

town. I'm glad this doesn't sound like power role speculation, being a mountainous, or that it is null in that aspect

In response to JasonT:
Well, I feel I was subconsciously "testing" people who are my town reads (you, benmage) who have been active in getting scum lynched. I am fairly sure benmage is town, hence my unvote. My quickness to do this should be noted, and should be seen as town, because of the effort I am putting in.

Some quick wagon analysis:
so two of the "scummiest reads" I have been seeing float around (kaleidoscope - null, apparently, as he "always plays like that", and thor - I am not familiar with his scum meta) are starting bandwagons. I would like to ask Kaleidoscope and Thor to not be a part of any lynch at this point.

Benmage-Furcolow interaction is definitely town on town. He always likes to be the biggest stag in the herd. I am more of a B type personality anyways, and will not seek a policy lynch on him.

In response to Percy's big post:
what flashbacks are you all having? I would like that explained.

His read is null? More like his read is

nul

! why the extra L, percy?

I agree with you on the dry-fit/babyspice interaction and the minimal influence we can garnish... perhaps i have worded that incorrectly... the lack of a serious "there you are" scumtell. If it's going to come from someone, though, it's babyspice. I remember her having interactions with you I found fishy, so I will have to ISO her. Dry-fit didn't really post a lot and was inactive from my recollection.

Also, if you're baiting someone, how did it turn out? Who are you suspicious of, Percy?
I have to agree with your interaction with Mina moreso than Mina's interaction with you. I feel like that's something you are

less

likely to do the same way you are. Perhaps this is just gender bias? Guys and girls are wired differently. At best, though, buddying up to a null read is null unless meta specific which to make a case on you need to provide instances.

I also agree with Mina shifting towards you being scummy. I can see reasons for Mina wanting to out someone popular to suit her own needs and commandeer the town. At this point, though, I'd almost rather lynch a lurker like K-Scope than either of you, even if this doesn't feel quite town on town to me.

I also didn't like when mina said 'youre caught like me as scum and get mad' or something similar to Percy, I feel that is almost lynch-worthy and reads very, very scum to me.

Tell me more about the kingmaker game, please. I have seen something similar. Did you learn anything from that game about any players in this game that can help us read their metas better? Maybe I should be asking Mina.
I am not sure the point you're trying to make vs RC/You when it was 5/4 4/5. Can you explain what you were doing, there, Percy?
I also agree Kaleidoscope is a good lynch. He is lurking.

Thor, quit whining, bro. There's no use in that. Also, what's the point in taking a potshot at a dead player??

Im going to put my vote where it should have been all day so far

vote: Percy

Really not liking his #1302 talkling about Mina then votes Scope without any reasoning.

so you don't like him questioning a good player and voting a lurker? both feel very pro-town from my perspective, hence why i'm voting kaleidoscope with him.

vote: percy

i also dislike babyspice's interactions with him

Which interactions in particular?

Percy is town, I'd love to see that wagon die. Kscope and Nul are my top reads for the last scum and I'm coming around to Elmo's replacement being all about busted scum wanting out of his current slot.

You think Elmo is that big of a prick to abandon his post like that? I mean, when Mina brought that up I thought it is a likely town tell that has moved Nul down my list of desired lynches.

Im going to put my vote where it should have been all day so far

vote: Percy

Really not liking his #1302 talkling about Mina then votes Scope without any reasoning.

There was reasoning in there. This is the second post you have misread. Why don't you like him talking about Mina?

JasonT1981
Percy
Furcolow
I Am Innocent/Benmage
Nul
KaleiÐoscøpe
Thor665

Town to scum list. Can't hate a KScope vote, still would rather lynch Thor.

Like I've said, I would have to ISO baby spice and find that, but Percy is a town read so I feel like it is wasted effort and energy.

WHY WOULD I DEFEND HIM RIGHT NOW? THERE'S 1 SCUM LEFT. PERCY IS TOWN.
lynch me on a policy lynch before you risk lynching him as town, even if he is a lylobility.
he is a liability in lylo more because he will get auto-lynched because of the "case" on him that is inexistent. WHERE'S THE CASE ON HIM?

If you all wagon him anyways, and he flips scum, i'm going to *facepalm*
I'd be willing to make an avatar bet with someone that he's town, though, seriously.

You think Elmo is that big of a prick to abandon his post like that? I mean, when Mina brought that up I thought it is a likely town tell that has moved Nul down my list of desired lynches.

::shrug:: Okay, he's not.
As I said, I have no flippin' clue anymore - I was just offering what I had before I'm lynched. I really don't care if you think it's stupid and I wasn't trying to be mean to Elmo.

What? No FLIPPING clue? lol
I don't remember you being mean to Elmo. I dislike you not having any reads. Do you read Kaleidoscope as lurking which is anti-town?

why am i not higher on your town list, sotty?

Because to me jason and Percy are more confident town reads. You're getting there and I don't want to lynch you, but not everyone can be number one townie otherwise it would be a failure of a list.

Can you answer my question now please?

I'm trying to, let me get to it, hold your horses. I was making a post and cooking. I'm done cooking, making this post perfect or as close to it as I can manage, and I am going to address everything in the manner most-town-as-possible because I am indeed town. I know there's no point telling you all that, but my sheer effort should indicate to you that I'm not just trying to fly-under-the-radar.

You think Elmo is that big of a prick to abandon his post like that? I mean, when Mina brought that up I thought it is a likely town tell that has moved Nul down my list of desired lynches.

::shrug:: Okay, he's not.
As I said, I have no flippin' clue anymore - I was just offering what I had before I'm lynched. I really don't care if you think it's stupid and I wasn't trying to be mean to Elmo.

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth there, sorry if it looked that way. I have little experience with Elmo, in fact I am pretty sure this is my first game with him. But from what I have seen around the site he doesn't strike me as that kind of player. To throw his toys out of the pram and stomp away because he was losing.

I dislike any post-mortem reads. It's null, anyways, as it is offset by it being more likely for scum to do that as scum are losing in this game right now

I don't know, Sotty... it just felt like he is still trying to justify the lynch.. afraid of being called on it or something and feels the need to keep discussing Mina instead of moving forward and trying to hunt scum here and now. I cant put my fingers on it but it did seem strange to me
I admit, my attention to this game is still pretty wavey today. sorry.. however I do still feel Percy is our best option at hitting scum. I have begrudgingly accepted Ben is more than likely town but still iffy over his boasts and saying he is confirmed town and generally acting like an ass thinking he is above everyone and unlynchable.

This, to me, feels like scum complaining they can't lynch someone who is good and town. If you are town, you need to take a break, take a few deep breaths, and focus before posting again or you will move down my town list in my mind... and you're up pretty high. Just focus more, bro.


Guys, don't let a lurker fly-under-the-radar
VOTE: Kaleidoscope

[Sotty7]

Fair enough furc, I thought you might have missed my question which is why I asked about it again. We have time, no need to rush.

As for the flashbacks I was talking about this game that I was in with Percy. Basically there was a player in there, AA23, who constantly made terrible arguments throughout the game and mostly on my player slot. He walled and walled while just ignoring actual evidence that his cases were utter horse do-do. I believe all the players wanted to kill him by the time the game was up, he made the game hell. Nul's cases where of similar quality, although thankfully he gave up on them a lot quicker that AA ever did.

[I Am Innocent]

Nul, your turn to vote.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I'm not lurking. I still want Percy dead.

[Sotty7]

Why?