Mini 1087 - The Dresden Files Game Over!

[Fate]

You ARE voting me?

What a damn waste, I don't feel the pressure at all.

[Antihero]

No, I'm not. I'm calling you scum, but I also think others are scum, and one of those others has my vote.

I'm not a double voter again, so you don't have a vote.

There, I walked you through it. Now, are you going to cooperate? Or are you going to brush me off and make poorly supported attacks on people like you have all game?

[Fate]

The latter.

At least I'm consistent /grin

[havingfitz]

Will try to get some posting/responses in but for the most part

I'm v/LA until this weekend

(when I am also typically v/LA) due to holiday/work commitments.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Danny, to what extent do you trust your "asks me the reasons for my vote so he must be town" town-tell?

Well I'm not going to bet the game on it, but it seems a decent place to start. I think genuine curiosity make more sense from town especially when the counterpoint of Mari and Smargret provides such a contrast and so much more likely to be scum driven.

It would totally not surprise me if Zdenek was scum; he asks me a question and then before I even get a chance to answer he's already issuing an opinion on the matter? That suggests to me that he's not interested in my motivations or the truth of the matter and just want to stake out a position.

How the hell do you get from me not liking your town-tell to me not being interested in your motivations or the "truth of the matter?"

I get there pretty easily when you ask for my input and then go ahead and issue a statement about the same topic without waiting for my input suggesting that the asking of the question is for show and you'd already decided what your opinion on the matter was going to be regardless of what I said.

~~

DDD I've played with you once before...

Well I'm drawing a blank as to the game, care to jog my memory?

AGM, guilty, I ended up putting said JoaT at L-1 at LyLo....[/quote]

Ok I went through nearly every game on my incomplete wiki and still couldn't find it, so how about you just tell my exceedingly forgetful self.

[Fate]

THE DAMN FOUNTAINHEAD


AGGGH NOW THE PAIN IS BACK

[Zdenek]

So, pretty much, that initial self vote is what did it for you?

No. It was mostly his reaction to my case on him where his defence completely missed the point.

You agree with his defense of LMP, yet you are voting LMP?

Go back and read the thread. If you still don't understand, replace out.

1. HOLDING OFF POR QUE? IF YUORE GONNA HAVE TWO SUSPECTS AND ONE IS VLA YOU BETTER FUCKIN COMMENT ON THE OTHER
2. OBVIOUS SCUMMOTVIATIONS IZ WUT AGAIN?
3. YOU HAVE TOO MANY TOWN READS THIS EARLY YOU BUDDYMCWALLFLOWER.

I have more than two suspects, LMP and Enigma are just my favourites, and I have commented already.

Obvious scum motivations for a self-vote: avoid ruffling feathers, it allows scum to wait longer to place a serious vote so they have a better assessment of the situation when they do place a vote, it gives the appearance of scum hunting.

This is enough to be on your town list?

That plus meta is enough for me to not want to lynch her today. I see in her posts the same concerns and types of votes that she had as town, and while they could be faked, I'm not getting that impression.

He exhibited "RVS timidity", yet you claim that you don't think scum would draw attention to themselves. Isn't "RVS timidity" scum trying not to draw attention to themselves?

Not really. I just voting someone for a having certain avatar is closer to trying to not draw attention to yourself. This is something else and it could be scummy, but it's not so clear.

In other words, your post here implies that there are more reasons to dislike Fitz's play than to like it, and yet STILL you say "I still think Fitz [is] town". ILLOGICAL. That makes 2 town reads that not only do I disagree with, but I can't even understand the logic in your position.

Well, I've tried to say what I think of Smarg above. With Fitz it's like this, he made his timid RVS vote and took flack for it. Now, scum would be more worried about attracting attention, but he goes out and OMGUSes Mariyta, which clearly draws attention to himself. My main feelings about Fitz come from his later posts. He seems reasonable, he isn't flailing and he hasn't been caught lying. So, at the moment, I am not inclined to push for his lynch now.

I get there pretty easily when you ask for my input and then go ahead and issue a statement about the same topic without waiting for my input suggesting that the asking of the question is for show and you'd already decided what your opinion on the matter was going to be regardless of what I said.

The fact that I didn't like it shouldn't have come as a surprise.

Anyway I think it's time for a crap posting lurker wagon.

Unvote LMP
Vote Enigma

[Enigma]

*cringe at wall posts*

Unvote

I'm feeling LMP and fitz as a scum vs town fight. The OMGUS jumps just seem way too blatant, now all we need to do is figure out which one is which.

I don't like smarget's vote on LMP. I can see the context from LMP after being forced to reread to thread to remember who was saying what.

TBH nearly all the wall posts quote arguments are useless bickering and it's confusing the hell out of me which is quite annoying. I just see much of it as egotistic (or scum trying to seem town w/e) and alot is simiply unnecessary or just plain repetition.
If you are going to do a series of wall posts, at least format them appropriately with quote tags and all if you expect other people to get your point. Else they are going to skim over it or waste so much time trying to figure out who said what.

Lol Zdenk you find me scummy? I've been inactive, surely you aren't that awesome with your reads and there must be something of interest in the 10 billion wall posts that you can pick out. At least define it as a scummy lurker. Cheers.
Play with DP a bit more, or better read some of his games. He's one of the people who's meta I feel confident about.
And trust me, alot of points can be made through sarcasm, especially when it's so god damn obvious. Read through it, it's just a different form of expression. Fate expresses himself IN CAPSRAGEZOMG. Other people, like myself prefer something more courteous such as sarcasm.

Preview Edit: Oh hai, please list reasons for that vote so it can help me get into the game.

[Fate]

I share Enigma's lack of ability to get into the flow of the game, so I should probably have a town read on him by this point.

[Zdenek]

Preview Edit: Oh hai, please list reasons for that vote so it can help me get into the game.

You've just discussed them in your post. Are you paying attention at all?

And your most recent post:

I'm feeling LMP and fitz as a scum vs town fight. The OMGUS jumps just seem way too blatant, now all we need to do is figure out which one is which.

but in the next paragraph we have

nearly all the wall posts quote arguments are useless bickering

What do you propose we do to figure out which of them is town and which is scum? Reading the walls obviously isn't going to work.

[LimMePls]

Well, I've tried to say what I think of Smarg above. With Fitz it's like this, he made his timid RVS vote and took flack for it. Now, scum would be more worried about attracting attention, but he goes out and OMGUSes Mariyta, which clearly draws attention to himself. My main feelings about Fitz come from his later posts. He seems reasonable, he isn't flailing and he hasn't been caught lying. So, at the moment, I am not inclined to push for his lynch now.

Fitz does something scummy. He comes under attention pressure. While under that pressure he does more bad things. Your logic is that he can't be scum because scum would act better under pressure? You do realize that scum can be bad players too, right? Scum don't always do the exact optimal play. In fact, scum OFTEN squirm under pressure, which is the ENTIRE REASON TO PRESSURE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTING SCUMMY! Then, you say that your main feelings about Fitz come from his later play. So you disregard all of this bad play because he got his shit together and calmed down from the pressure? This is so illogical. There play under direct pressure is much more telling then there later play when the pressure has slacked off. Also, a player changing their style when under pressure screams scum to me. How on earth is a player making a scum tell, reacting poorly to the pressure that results possibly negated by his later play!? It is so irrational. Even if you thought his later play was decent, shouldn't that make him a null read? YOU CALL HIM TOWN!

Trying to understand Zdenek's logic makes me feel like I've taken crazy pills. It literally seems insane to me. This is not meant as an insult, its a statement of fact. The logic of it is so illogical that I can't wrap my mind around it.

[Enigma]

I was hoping those weren't the reasons for your sake. Unfortunately I'm sorely mistaken. Sorry, my bad!

For the next point, I was thinking you might be able to do it for me? I really don't feel up to reading all the wall posts again. It was painful enough the 2nd time round.

[Antihero]

Anyway I think it's time for a crap posting lurker wagon.
Unvote LMP
Vote Enigma

Die, scum, die.

@everyone

: In your next post, include either a) a Z vote or b) a really, really good reason for a non-Z lynch today.

[Fate]

Hey what do you know I'm on the Z wagon already.

Now you can FINALLY remove that terribad scumread off me.

[Antihero]

Whatever.

You're still more annoying than a hair on a shower wall.

[Fate]

I agree.

I also said you can give me credit where credit is due and realize my play this game ISN'T due to me being childish or immature.

And see the walls beyond the walls.

And the lake underneath the surface.

[LimMePls]

Zd is making a strong case for scum. I still like fitz though. AH, what is your stance on fitz?

[Fate]

Zd vs. Fitz is a fine two wagons that should be going for optimal analysis later.

Feel free to leave your vote where it is LMP

[Antihero]

fitz, eh?

Let's have a look...

A lot of noise and crappy pushes, but not nearly as good of a lynch as Z.

Now, are you going to vote Z?

[Fate]

Antihero you realize I'm going to kill you tonight and then resume my throne as the town leader who creates lynches and directs the town right?

Nows your only REAL chance to push your scumread on me.

[Antihero]

Not so sure on it, that's why I'm not taking it.

I'm hoping people have the spine to stand up to you if you start acting scummy and not be so idiotic as to give you a throne. But maybe that's just wishful thinking.

[Oopidstay]

Zd is making a strong case for scum. I still like fitz though.

QFT.

[Zdenek]

Fitz does something scummy. He comes under attention pressure. While under that pressure he does more bad things. Your logic is that he can't be scum because scum would act better under pressure?

That is not my rationale. It's the exact thing that he did, and it's not that scum would act better, it's that I think scum would have acted differently.

Die, scum, die.

Have you read Enigma's posts?

[LimMePls]

So because you think scum would have reacted differently, it's enough to ignore the scummy behavior AND CALL HIM TOWN!? That's what is so illogical. I don't see how you can admit to the bad things, but because he behaved in a way you think incosistant with scum, you call him TOWN. AT the least wouldn't it be a more neutral read? Or leaning scum? WHY ARE YOU CALLING HIM TOWN!? IT IS ILLOGICAL.

[Zdenek]

So because you think scum would have reacted differently, it's enough to ignore the scummy behavior AND CALL HIM TOWN!? That's what is so illogical. I don't see how you can admit to the bad things, but because he behaved in a way you think incosistant with scum, you call him TOWN. AT the least wouldn't it be a more neutral read? Or leaning scum? WHY ARE YOU CALLING HIM TOWN!? IT IS ILLOGICAL.

I wrote my reads post too hastily. I've viewed Antihero as being likely town for awhile, so I was trying to co-operate with him. I agree that saying null on Fitz makes more sense, but the only thing I ever really wanted to say was that I am not going to push for his lynch today.