Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)

[Furcolow]

im pretty sure locke is town
if it gets more votes i will join

[Empking]

vote: Mina

[Sotty7]

^ lol, had to ruin a good thing.

Vote: Emp

I want details as to why you are voting Mina. When I say details I mean a case of your own that isn't Locke's. Since you have got here I haven't seen a lot of scum hunting from you which is something Lrd was also guilty of.

And yes I saw Percy's vote, but he has been here since the start and has been scum hunting. Your slot, not so much.

[Furcolow]

is this the rvs all over again? count me in

vote: JasonT1981

[Empking]

I'm votining Mina for her actions with regard to the BS wagon (mostly her going to the second largest to lend her support to it) but mostly its because of her insistance that I'd be the lynch today without putting a vote on. It seems to me that she ignored the Percy feelings due to trying to make sure we got through this part quickly so we wouldn't look closely at her posts (a difficult job at the best lof time considerring she's wrote a small novel's worth.)

[Zachrulez]

3rd Vote count of Day 2 Phase 2:

Empking - 4 (Mina, Thor665, I Am Innocent, Sotty7)
Mina - 3 (Locke Lamora, Percy, Empking)
Percy - 2 (KaleiÐoscøpe, JasonT1981)
Furcolow - 1 (Benmage)
JasonT1981 - 1 (Furcolow)

Not Voting: (Elmo)

Deadline for Day 2 is Monday, December 6th at 8am CST

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch

[Furcolow]

I just read Mina in iso, and she has not been on either of the predominant wagons.
Furthermore, she has tried to push counter-wagons while other wagons were prevalent, and *this is why i'm going to vote her*:
At the end of a cycle, she was voting RedCoyote. The next cycle rolls around, and RedCoyote is lynched, but Mina wouldn't be on it. She doesn't mind voting for an out of the way townie, but doesn't want her name associated with a mislynch she had previously voted on even.

VOTE: Mina

[Thor665]

Isn't voting Mina for dithering a bit like voting Furcolow for OMGUSing? I dunno, I agree Mina looks bad but she just doesn't feel that scummy to me. Meanwhile we have Empking who is most assuredly acting dicey around important wagons and whose predecessors did the same. He's even been bouncing around today trying to be wherever it looks like an alternate wagon is going to spring up.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I disagree. I've been getting weird vibes from Mina as well, but we should actually be lynching Percy

[Empking]

Isn't voting Mina for dithering a bit like voting Furcolow for OMGUSing? I dunno, I agree Mina looks bad but she just doesn't feel that scummy to me. Meanwhile we have Empking who is most assuredly acting dicey around important wagons and whose predecessors did the same. He's even been bouncing around today trying to be wherever it looks like an alternate wagon is going to spring up.

What important wagons?

[Thor665]

@Emp - Percy and BS.

@KScope - I have no idea where you're standing on lynches right now. There was a point you agreed with Benmage that Emp was the last scum and that furc needed to die, and now you're back on Percy. Why Percy today and what happened to your Empking as scum read?

[Empking]

Thor; How am I acting dicey around Percy's wagon?

[Mina]

Fuck. I'm busy this week modding a fast game off-site and don't have much time to defend myself. This is so frustrating.

You know what the irony is? I'd have never in a million years said something like, "Gee, people are wagoning Dry-Fit, so maybe I should reread him" *never mentions him again* had I

actually

been Dry-Fit's buddy and noticed he was the inevitable lynch. Or voiced how wishy-washy I am on Baby Spice so, soooo loudly, and complained that I found her kind of suspicious, but eh, I'm not sure, guys. Particularly when both of their lynches looked inevitable. Those are the kind of mistakes scum players make in their very first games. I knew the moment I saw both of their flips that I'd draw serious heat for my interactions with them--because yes, from an outside POV, they look

horrendously

scummy. Had I just kept my mouth shut, or attacked them for their scumslips (I usually make an effort to interact with my scumbuddies), or took a firm stand on them, or just hopped on their wagon once it looked inevitable, I'd still be in the lynch pool by process of elimination, but I wouldn't be in this much trouble, because errors of commission look more damning in a case than errors of omission.

But of course, the "too scummy to be scum" argument is WIFOM that won't convince anyone.

Yes, I look like their buddy by process of elimination. I haven't done a single thing all game to rule me out as either a DF or a Baby Spice scumbuddy. I should be lynched eventually, because we have mislynches to spare and I'll be a distraction in endgame. I screwed myself over by waffling too much. It's just upsetting me that every comment I've ever made all game about Baby Spice, every time I attacked her and every time I defended her, is being interpreted in the worst possible light--for example, it's scummy that I've

consistently

suspected Lrdwhyt more than Baby Spice, and unvoted Baby Spice

even though Thor's unvote made her lynch impossible

. I was really genuine in some of my responses to Sotty, and then Locke used that as proof that I'm scum

trying to call attention

to the fact that my behaviour isn't the ideal one for scum. Since I talk more than some of the other players do, there's obviously more to fill up a case with.

Really, I think the only argument I have in my defence is that for people accusing me of trying to save my scumbuddies, I did a

terrible

job of that. If you reread my Day Two Lrdwhyt interaction, I never go out of my way to sell his lynch despite having my vote on him. It would have been so easy to make a huge case on him like I did on Elmo, and break down his list of impressions and make him look really, really scummy, but instead I poked at other players and attacked Elmo...who I then completely dropped once my case got a following. That, and I think that I'm playing much more like I do as town than as scum to anyone who knows me. And in hindsight, waiting to hammer Red and for more time to lynch Baby Spice were the right moves for town (we got several reactions--Empking's, for example--that would have been useless had BS been hammered before everyone weighed in). Even if I get lynched for it, I'll maintain in postgame that I was right and you were all wrong.

If people think it would be helpful for me to write a longwinded rebuttal to Locke's case explaining why, for example, I found Furcolow scummier than Baby Spice, or where my turnaround on Baby Spice on Day One came from, I can give one. But to be honest, I agree with much of what Locke said, and think I'd be better off devoting my energy to attacking other players. You want to know why?

I remember Percy saying the town was allowed five mislynches, which made me think we only had five lynches to catch the killer after we messed up on Red. But then I did the math.

We're at twelve players right now.

1 lynch during D2, P2
After D2: 11 players
After N2: 10 players
2 lynches during D3 (3 in total)
After D3: 8 players
After N3: 7 players
2 lynches during D4 (5 in total)
After D4: 5 players
After N4: 4 players

So in other words, on Day Five, after mislynching five times, we'll be at one scum vs. three townies...

and we'll still have two more lynches.

Percy, where did you get the five mislynches number? Maybe someone should recheck my math, but by my count, we have seven lynches left.

Seven

.

All we need are five players we think are town, and we win. Sotty, Benmage, IAI, jason, Thor, Furcolow...does anyone think any of the above are scum?

Percy, Kaleidoscope, Empking, and Elmo. What would you say to a plan in which the five of us are speedlynched? I'm being entirely serious. Any objections?

I'll be honest and say I'd rather be one of the later lynches, because I have a really selfish, silly reason for not wanting to be mislynched this game if I don't have to be (which I'll save for after the game). But it's in the town's benefit to lynch me eventually. That said, I'd argue we should lynch Empking first, because if he flips town, itwould be damning evidence against both me and Elmo, and probably be a point in Kaleidoscope's favour. (Also, I'll be a little miffed if it turns out I got screwed for voting for the wrong scumbuddy.)

I'd still like to lynch Empking first. That said, I'm getting paranoid because Empking looks utterly unreadable regardless of alignment, and I'll admit his unvote of Furcolow for "looking genuine" freaked me out. Also, Elmo's weird scumtell and "bore-nom" comments that he refused to explain made him shoot up my suspect list, because I think it'd be in character for scum who knows he's just lost to stop making an effort. But I'd like to check Baby Spice's past games and see if she's the type to kiss up to a scumbuddy (which would help my reads of Elmo and Percy). Kscope STILL ignoring a pointblank questions and getting away with it because "that's his meta" is annoying, although TBH, it may be a null tell.

I'm votining Mina for her actions with regard to the BS wagon (mostly her going to the second largest to lend her support to it) but mostly its because of her insistance that I'd be the lynch today

without putting a vote on

. It seems to me that she ignored the Percy feelings due to trying to make sure we got through this part quickly so we wouldn't look closely at her posts (a difficult job at the best lof time considerring she's wrote a small novel's worth.)

What the hell are you talking about? My vote

is

on you. And what "Percy feelings" are you talking about?

Locke, your case is very impressive. I agree with every characterisation you have made of Mina's play, and the scum narrative is extremely compelling.

Unvote
Vote: Mina

Hey, Percy.

I want reasons, considering I called you earlier in the game on trying to buddy up to me and complimenting me and agreeing with all my reads even as you consistently listed me in the "neutral category" and never so much as once as asked me a stern question all game. I mean, considering you were the one calling Empking obvscum, so scummy, yadda, and Lrdwhyt has been your number two suspect all game, this turnaround seems to have come completely out of nowhere. Is it just that Locke's case is nicely formatted? You never noticed that I'd behaved badly re: Dry-Fit on Day One?

Oh, yeah. In case you aren't following, I want you lynched before Furcolow (who I've done a 180 on and I think is probably town, both because of mongoose's interactions and because of his reactions to Benmage's vote.) I think you're just the person who'd want to sacrifice your buddy for town cred given your terrible position. (Logically, it would also make sense for Thor, but he really feels townish to me.)

But it doesn't matter if you lynch me first, because if you're scum, you've already lost because your math sucks, and your cute bus was all for naught.

[Empking]

Yeah, I must have misremembered and then when I looked at you in iso, your vote was only around 10 minuted after your post.

[Mina]

^So right now, the entire reason you're voting for me is that I voted Lrdwhyt over Baby Spice?

I'd have felt much better about you had you been honest and said it was self-preservation.

EBWOP: And I forgot Locke Lamora in my town list. Wow. I mean, even if we lynch me, Elmo, Empking, Percy, Kaleidoscope, AND Furcolow, that leaves us with a final three of confirmed-ish players (meaning someone pulled off a bus, but still). Scum have three nightkills, and I can think of four players in the "confirmed" pool who aren't total idiots and would probably make the right decision in that tight process-of-elimination decision. If we lose this game, then I'm either nominating the final scum for a Scummy or the townie who picks wrong in LYLO for a VI-of-the-Year award.

[Empking]

^So right now, the entire reason you're voting for me is that I voted Lrdwhyt over Baby Spice?

I'd have felt much better about you had you been honest and said it was self-preservation.

If I was voting based on self-preservation I'd have voted Percy this part. You're clearly (and if you were being honest you'd know that) the best candidate for scum.

[Thor665]

Thor; How am I acting dicey around Percy's wagon?

When you tried to resuscitate it without even commenting on the leading wagon of the day?
I dunno - that strikes me as odd. I'm probably being dumb though, feel free to explain how it's normal.

[Thor665]

Mina's last post looks so town.
Empking's last post looks so scum.

Please don't make me have to evolve into Benmage as my next evolutionary step of meta.

[Empking]

Thor; How am I acting dicey around Percy's wagon?

When you tried to resuscitate it without even commenting on the leading wagon of the day?
I dunno - that strikes me as odd. I'm probably being dumb though, feel free to explain how it's normal.

Wagon analysis should come after the lynch not before and I did comment that I leant scum on BS.

If we lose this game, then I'm either nominating the final scum for a Scummy or the townie who picks wrong in LYLO for a VI-of-the-Year award.

Thor; You consider blatant, blatant "I'm town, totally town. See how I'm randomly calling myself town." a town tell? Why?

[Thor665]

Wagon analysis should come after the lynch not before and I did comment that I leant scum on BS.

Yeah, and he was in the same category as me (a player you say you knew you'd have a hard time reading) and jasonT (a player I have no idea how you had a scummy/null read on). You softballed him and didn't address the wagon other then asking me to state the case.

Thor; You consider blatant, blatant "I'm town, totally town. See how I'm randomly calling myself town." a town tell? Why?

No, I consider; 'hey look, we have 7 mislynches, here's a list of who we shouldn't lynch, now let's lynch everyone else (including me) and we almost assuredly win automatically and if not those people on the 'not lynch' list should be able to muddle through in endgame" a town tell. Also, I actually agree that if the case on her is legit she'd have to be pretty derpy town when it comes to understanding how to bus/defend her buddies.

At the very least I consider it less scummy then 'If I was scum I'd be on Percy right now...never mind that I was on Percy yesterday and was on Percy for a period of time today.'

[Thor665]

EBWOP - actually, I stand corrected. You weren't on Percy today, you were on furc. The rest is still legit.

[Empking]

Well, no the rest isn't legit because
1. Stating the obvious in order to look town is a scum tell not a town tell. (Town want to lynch scum. Scum want to blow hot air in a way that helps them survive.)
2. Scum would know that BS was scum and would've voted him rather than voting for a wagon that had no chance to grow.

[Thor665]

2. Scum would know that BS was scum and would've voted him rather than voting for a wagon that had no chance to grow.

Mina didn't vote BS.
You're voting Mina.
Thoughts?

[Empking]

2. Scum would know that BS was scum and would've voted him rather than voting for a wagon that had no chance to grow.

Mina didn't vote BS.
You're voting Mina.
Thoughts?

rather than voting for a wagon that had no chance to grow

The Lrd wagon didn't fit that single criteria.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

@KScope - I have no idea where you're standing on lynches right now. There was a point you agreed with Benmage that Emp was the last scum and that furc needed to die, and now you're back on Percy. Why Percy today and what happened to your Empking as scum read?

Are you sure we are reading the same thread here?

I NEVER said that Emp was the last scum.
I NEVER said that furc needed to die.

Do your homework