Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)

[Furcolow]

jason's thing about the cop seems kinda pointless. People make mistake and I dont think the fact that he didn't read the set up makes him scum. TBH I forgot the game had no PR's as well.

looking at furcolows last 4 posts he says he thinks we should hurry up and lynch someone, but doesn't say anything contributive as for WHO to lynch. then he gives a vote without information. I don't like that at all.

nothing else really jumped out at me

unvote, vote furcolow

[Empking]

Percy: Why is "asking for a BS case without responding to it in any way" scummy?

[Empking]

Thor: I don't understand the question. I said I'd have troubler reading them, not that they'd be impossible to read. Those players are in the middle two categories though.

Unvote

Furc's unvote does look genuine.

[Furcolow]

i am considering just proxying my vote to benmage or elmo

[Percy]

@Empking

: You put BS as "The Scummy Side of Null" after asking Thor for the case against Baby Spice, which he provided. That was all you said about Baby Spice, no comment on it even though we were close to a lynch and BS turned out to be scum. Instead you wagonned me!

Mix in the case against Lrd and we have some tasty scum pudding. Nom.

[Furcolow]

viet-nom

[Thor665]

I am going to re-read this entire game, and make a post

i am considering just proxying my vote to benmage or elmo

If Benmage didn't already have it, then this might have needed to become my new sig.

@Emp - I never said that anyone would be impossible to read. I said more difficult. Where are you coming from with this?
Also, let's look at this for a second, you claim that some of the players in the middle section of your list (let's say there were 4 of us for the sake of this thought) were players you thought would be difficult for you to read. So you randomly ask one of them a question, randomly decide the question should be on the case he's trying to sell, get the response, decide he's more town for it, and never comment on it again, and then had the subject of that case flip scum while you went and joined the alternate wagon to that scum wagon, and none of these coincidences were connected in any way?

Oh dear gawd - wagon needs diesel fuel added right now.

[Furcolow]

I got really bored around page 7, sue me

[Elmo]

bore-nom

[Thor665]

@Elmo - you've practically not given a substantive post since the lynch, is there a strategy here or are you just lost?

[Locke Lamora]

I know Mina is going to hate this, but these all really need to be pointed out. Here are many things I don't like about Mina in relation to our two flipped scum:

1. The complete failure to comment on the Dry-fit situation. Yes, I'm aware that she was struggling to catch up and was V/LA and maybe she was just unlucky in selecting other people to look at when she did post, but it's hard to ignore the likes of the below:

@Red: I need time to sit down in front of a computer and reread, but off the top of my head, my other suspects are Furcolow and imkingdavid (I noticed some iffy stuff in their ISO, although that sadly might not be a scumtell with the former). I haven't taken a close enough look at Dry-fit to see if I like the case on him.

2. This wishy-washy vote on BS when Percy has 6 votes and BS has 2. The scumminess of this is enhanced through later posts.

Ack. Um...of the viable wagons...

VOTE: Baby Spice

I'll be honest. I'm not super-confident in this vote (BS is mostly on my suspect list by process of elimination), and don't think the "town" slip was that meaningful. I don't have strong scumreads yet. Elmo preempted me to the point that Red's defence that his play is scummier than normal

because it's a sixteen player mountainous game

is utterly ludicrous, but Red has said stuff recently that looks townish. Part of it is that since I'm behind, I'm playing more by general impressions, so maybe I'm missing the nuances of just what Red is misrepping in his back-and-forth with Sotty.

But I'll move my vote to Red tomorrow if a Baby Spice wagon doesn't take off. Red has given off a mix of towntells and scumtells, while Percy is giving me a strong gut town read.

3. This change of heart after ISO-ing BS. Guess how many BS posts there were between Mina's vote and Mina reconsidering her position? That's right, none. In short, Mina makes a deadline vote on a player she hasn't bothered to properly ISO and then backs up and tries to sell the 'not the brightest bulb' argument. This returns in BS-defence later on.

But I'll probably vote LrdWhyt tomorrow, either way. I'm ISO-ing BS, and to be honest, I don't find her scummy so much as hard to read and not the brightest bulb. LrdWhyt, on the other hand...seriously, just ISO him. His only content is 1) saying that the slip on, and 2) a huge list of opinions that seem to come from nowhere and consist of wishy-washy and vague one-liners. He doesn't have any solid opinions. On the off-chance I die tonight (stranger kills have been made), my last request is that you put serious pressure on him. Get him to explain those reads.

4. The multiple references to BS not being particularly smart and having the kind of thought process other players don't get. Part of why I don't like this is I felt like Mina was approaching Furcolow in particular like his VI-ness was potentially scummy, but it's often used as a defence of BS. Granted, she treats Furc differently because she claims he seems more like he cares what other people think, but then once BS votes Lrdwhyt, who she has expressed little suspicion of but is clearly a favoured lynch of other players, Mina doesn't seem to think BS is any more scummy. Below is a good example.

Sotty, I was tempted to join the Baby Spice wagon (although eek, BS and LW probably aren't buddies now--which raises the stakes of my decision) after that terrible vote, but hang on. That explanation from Baby Spice is very, um, unique, but her reasoning is much more of the town variety of special snowflake than the scum variety. Right now, I'd be much happier with a Lrdwhyt lynch than a BS one.

5. Attempting to derail the BS wagon, here by suggesting that there is scum on it.

I was about to do another one of my last minute vote swings again (I'm happy with how my Lrdwhyt and Elmo votes turned out), but since someone might hammer any minute.

VOTE: Lrdwhyt

I much prefer this. Baby Spice is hard to read, but 80% of the case on her that her arguments for her suspects are stupid. Um...

duh

. At least she seems to have her own theories about the game. Has no one noticed

Furcolow's

cognitive dissonance today (which looks much more calculated and less emotional than usual for him as town)? On a gut level, I don't think she's scum. Benmage, don't be an idiot, unvote, and help lynch someone you think has a chance of being guilty. This is the second time in a row you actually HARM your suspect's chance of getting lynched simply by throwing a tantrum. Not one person's read of Percy will change if Baby Spice flips town.

Seriously, guys. Look at how this wagon developed. Half the players on it don't even seem to suspect her. There is scum on it.

6. Her 'not really feeling it' attitude towards the BS lynch, despite repeatedly saying she agrees with points made about BS and endeavouring to not seem too bothered if BS does get lynched. In the below two quotes, she acknowledges that she somewhat agrees with Sotty, Percy and myself on points we've made about BS, but drops back on this semi-gut read based on BS's play not feeling opportunistic enough and just being the kind of play that draws suspicion.

@Sotty: My reason was that Baby Spice put the third vote on LrdWhyt I

suppose

I could concoct a conspiracy theory in which she was bussing LrdWhyt and preemptively setting one of us up as his buddy, but it just looked really weird and convoluted for a scum gambit. I wouldn't die of shock if she flipped guilty, and I kind of see Locke's point that setting contingencies based on the lynch is scummy (it's so much fun as scum to link your partner to every group suspect in existence). But meh. I guess I'm not really feeling it. She doesn't seem to be opportunistically tailoring her opinions to suit the masses.

It doesn't seem like anyone is interested in a non-BS lynch, but I still prefer LW's lynch to BS's. I read Sotty's and Percy's arguments on Baby Spice, and I actually found myself nodding along and agreeing with them...but then Baby Spice posted, and it all seemed to make sense in her own little universe. She reminds me a lot of this player from another site who also had these weird theories and gaps in logic as town that drew her a lot of suspicion. Baby is still in the "eh, I don't suppose I'd miss her

too

much, but...." category for me. I dunno, maybe I'll try to find "VI" quotes for Sotty.

7. The conscious effort to point out that despite pressure from several angles, she's standing firm (or not) in her uncertain opinion on BS. I think she makes a point of this enough times that it looks like scum trying to buy credit because she isn't bussing or calling BS super-town. I think this displays a contradictory thought process because it's quite evident from every Mina post after her BS vote that she doesn't see BS as scum. She's always saying that she agrees with this point or that, or that she wouldn't miss BS too much, but when it comes down to it, she consistently takes the position that BS is a mislynch. I think by this point she's stated this view so often, she can't join the BS wagon because it would look too much like a bus and quite possibly draw more attention.

Maybe for self-preservation's sake, I should pretend to be either super-suspicious of Baby Spice or utterly convinced she's town. But I'm sorry. I'm just kind of lukewarm on her. You say that your experience has taught you how to sense when things feel off. Well, my experience has taught me that I should not trust my own ability to read players like Baby Spice, because I consistently misread them (either as town when they're scum or scum when they're town). Occasionally she sounds sincere, but in all honesty, her posts just make my head hurt. Every time I think I've found a nugget of towniness there, she says something that makes me go, "But...but...didn't you just say that you thought...how does that make any...." There are players I have something concrete against, so the "side" I'm picking is to vote for them over her.

8. BS's ridiculous 'fake' argument statements about Sotty and Mina that were never backed up. BS made this statement several times and completely failed to offer any definitive evidence for it. I think this was BS's attempt to toss some soft suspicion in Mina's direction without taking the risk of going full-on for it; the fact that she chose Sotty to attack rather than Mina, despite being unable to pinpoint which player sounded fake, indicates to me that Mina is likely scum.

Vote: Mina

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah scum has gotta be in Mina, EmpKing, or Percy group.

Thor, I owe you one, so I'll throw you a bone and

vote: EmpKing

[Empking]

I am going to re-read this entire game, and make a post

i am considering just proxying my vote to benmage or elmo

If Benmage didn't already have it, then this might have needed to become my new sig.

@Emp - I never said that anyone would be impossible to read. I said more difficult. Where are you coming from with this?
Also, let's look at this for a second, you claim that some of the players in the middle section of your list (let's say there were 4 of us for the sake of this thought) were players you thought would be difficult for you to read. So you randomly ask one of them a question,

Yes.

randomly decide the question should be on the case he's trying to sell

No

, get the response, decide he's more town for it, and never comment on it again

I don't see the coincidence.

, and then had the subject of that case flip scum while you went and joined the alternate wagon to that scum wagon,

No. I was the only alternative wagon to BS.

and none of these coincidences were connected in any way?

Only one is a coincidence so I have to say "no".

[Zachrulez]

2nd Vote count of Day 2 Phase 2:

Empking - 4 (Mina, Thor665, Percy, I Am Innocent)
Percy - 2 (KaleiÐoscøpe, JasonT1981)
Furcolow - 1 (Benmage)
Mina - 1 (Locke Lamora)

Not Voting: (Sotty7, Elmo, Furcolow, Empking)

Deadline for Day 2 is Monday, December 6th at 8am CST

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch

[Furcolow]

@mod you spelled locke's name wrong

[Sotty7]

lol Mamora.

Anyway, I am behind because of the weekend. I'm gonna try and catch up tonight, if not then I will commit my morning to it.

[Furcolow]

i am getting sucked into another game at the moment, and most of my mafia time is going towards it
i will be able to respond to any relevant questions that are directed towards me

[jasonT1981]

i am getting sucked into another game at the moment, and most of my mafia time is going towards it
i will be able to respond to any relevant questions that are directed towards me

Why aint you voting anyone?

[Sotty7]

Oh wow. I thought I was going to vote Emp once I had read up but I am loving Locke's Mina case. I'm going to think it over a little more before I finally vote. I'm tired and reading Ben v furc didn't help. So I will be back tomorrow, hopefully for real this time.

[Furcolow]

VOTE: I am Innocent

[Furcolow]

referencing wagons to see if IAI is a good lynch, brb

[Furcolow]

6th Vote Count of D2 P1

Baby Spice - 6 (*Percy*, Sotty7, Thor665, JasonT1981, Benmage, Furcolow)

7th vote count, you see percy leave the wagon leaving this I believe:
(Sotty7, Thor665, JasonT1981, BenMage, Furcolow) *I BELIEVE* don't quote me on that, i just looked at it... then this happens:

Sotty7, thor, jason, bm, *IAI*, *percy*, furc

so I had already been on the wagon. I thought that was the case. Me being on a wagon is kind of null, as I'm all over the place.
Percy left only to rejoin it... why didn't he want to claim his own wagon? Doesn't want to spotlight when the whole town is against him?

FOS: PERCY
FOS: IAI

one of these will be the last scum

[Furcolow]

Also, IAI hopped on the wagon AFTER it had hit L-1

[Furcolow]

even if he was the "5th vote" TECHNICALLY he was the hammering one in terms of NEW VOTERS

[Percy]

Locke, your case is very impressive. I agree with every characterisation you have made of Mina's play, and the scum narrative is extremely compelling.

Unvote
Vote: Mina