Mini 1087 - The Dresden Files Game Over!

[smargaret]

/confirm, would prefer to start without a replacement.

Fate, did you read the second PM? The one where TBM specifically requested that we confirm in-thread?

[smargaret]

VOTE: Fate

I hear wagons are good.

DP, is the daykill serious? If it is, why would you daykill someone on page 2? And why Mariyta? If it isn't, why post something like that?

[smargaret]

DP, can you answer my questions please?

[smargaret]

Antihero: Asking questions like that is how I form opinions in RVS. It's hard to give opinions when the questions don't get answered.

CityofAs: That was a random vote; it doesn't need a reason. Besides, I was the second on the Fate wagon, and I just finished a game in which he berated me at length for not voting to bandwagon efficiently enough, which is more than cause enough to vote someone on the second page of the game.

[smargaret]

Mariyta: I've read all the books at least three times and seen every episode of the TV show. I did not get my favorite character

So, David Parker fakes a daykill, decides that Mariyta is town, and then contributes nothing else? I'm assuming that comment about actually daykilling Mariyta on the basis of gender was a joke. DP, I want answers to those questions so I can read you. If you won't answer questions when they're put to you, how are we supposed to tell whether you're town or scum?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DP

[smargaret]

You'll be able to follow the TV show, but you really should read the books because they are amazing and the TV show only really goes over the first book. It was also on Hulu a while ago.

Why shouldn't I put a serious vote on DP?

[smargaret]

Hey DP. If you were actually a dayvig, how would you use your kill?

Isn't this essentially the same question you voted me for asking? And I know you didn't address this to me, but Fate is playing not-Fate-like and while I'm sorry he's dealing with stuff, I'm okay with his play because I don't like people assuming control of the town. I'm not entirely sure how he managed to confuse me with Mariyta, though (which is currently my biggest problem with him, but it's a fairly minor one). Abbreviate my name however you want, most people seem to go for smar.

If nobody pushes anyone to answer questions, then scum could ignore anything they wanted. It's not enough to push someone to a lynch, however DP did massively confuse the game by fake-daykilling and hasn't contributed anything to the game since. I think that is more than enough justification for a single vote in the first five pages of the game.

@ Mari: Yeah, I can't think what role I'd give to my favorite.

[smargaret]

Oop, did I miss something, or do you just not like my posts?

[smargaret]

If I get lynched today on a gut read, I will be very angry. And I hold grudges. (this is for essentially the same reason Mariyta would have been angry to die on page 2 - Dresden Files are some of my favorite books)

LMP, which post are you referring to?

[smargaret]

If I wanted to give reasons or make clear to others why I voted the way I did I would've done so with my initial post.

Withholding reasons like that is anti-town. It's day 1 so it's not like you're a cop trying to avoid a claim; there is no pro-town reason right now not to explain your vote.

[smargaret]

So then what is the pro-town reason for refusing to state a reason for a vote?

[smargaret]

Okay, I have a major lack of creativity. Enlighten me, please.

[smargaret]

@ Mod, my vote should be on David Parker, not Fate.

I'm not a double voter to my knowledge.

Corrected.

[smargaret]

So Fate, why is your vote still on me, when you were voting me for voting you when I wasn't actually voting you?

Fake bonus points if you made it through that sentence.

[smargaret]

@Mod, you have me as a double voter again.

I'm the best vote counter there ever was!

Corrected, again.

[smargaret]

So Fate, are you not scumhunting this game?

[smargaret]

The "Dammit HavinFitz it's only been five hours!" Vote Count:

DavidParker: Mariyta
Fate: , smargaret, HavingFitz
Mariyta: DavidParker, Oopidstay,Antihero
CityofAs : Zdenek
LMP: LMP

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

Vote Count:

DavidParker: Mariyta
Fate: , smargaret, HavingFitz
Mariyta: DavidParker, Oopidstay,Antihero
CityofAs : Zdenek
LMP: LMP

Vote Count:

Fate: , smargaret, HavingFitz

Vote Count:

Fate:

,

I demand to know who this mysterious voter is!

Oop, why are you going overboard about the votecount?

Okay, I have a major lack of creativity. Enlighten me, please.

That hasn't been answered yet, DDD.

The smargaret accusation at that point in time was weak.

Smargaret has done more recent stuff that is much better. So the voting smargaret when your accusation of fitz was stronger is strange. So I disagree with your assessment of the strength of those two cases. Hence my vote and questions.

Please explain in a single post both of the cases you were making in 93 and 94, and why you feel the one on smargaret was better.

Pretty sure we can't go wrong with lynching fitz or smargaret today.

I'm curious to hear LMP's response to this as well.

All of these things are setting off alarm bells.

DDD, I'm not asking for a full-out case, but really, how hard can it be to provide a basic reason for a vote? Even if it was role-related, you can come up with something if you look hard enough - I find it hard to believe that you can't provide any sort of justification, and to channel Fate, how can you expect your targets to get lynched if you won't tell the town why they need lynching? I really feel like you're scum backing off a bad move.

CoA, I did explain that that was a random vote based on Fate yelling at me for not using my vote to wagon effectively in a recently-completed game, right? Two votes is nowhere near a lynch being likely; I'm curious why you're concerned that it is.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DDD

[smargaret]

We're 9 pages into day 1, it's too early for votes to be wasted.

[smargaret]

The smargaret accusation at that point in time was weak.

Smargaret has done more recent stuff that is much better

. So the voting smargaret when your accusation of fitz was stronger is strange. So I disagree with your assessment of the strength of those two cases. Hence my vote and questions.

When I said that, you weren't a particularly good lynch.

Then you kept making your awesome-bad posts

, and now I'm certain the play is you or fitz.

LMP, do you want to explain the discrepancy here? Why do I feel like you're trying to keep your options open?

I'm not 100% satisfied by DDD's response, but I'm leaning more misguided town than scum at the moment.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LMP

[smargaret]

LMP, I cut things down a bit but I thought I'd caught the entirety of what you said regarding me. Can you show me how I took your quote out of context?

[smargaret]

I believe Butters as bulletproof. He certainly hangs out with Harry enough that he ought to be dead, but isn't. I'm very uncomfortable with how quickly the wagon built up, and suspect there was scum on it - and oop's rolefishing is enough for me to wagon him. I don't like Fate directing the hypothetical vig, but it's Fate, so it's not a scumtell.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Oop

@ Mod: Sorry, I thought I'd posted yesterday.

[smargaret]

The flavor doesn't fit with the TV shows, which basically adapt the first book. It does fit with later books. Nulltell to both of you.

(and honestly, if I were a normal human, I'd wear a bulletproof vest before spending any time with Harry Dresden too. His normal human friends tend to wind up dead or turned into vampires.)

[smargaret]

Fate, like you, I'm dealing with some stuff IRL. I'm coasting a bit this week, unless you want me posting under the influence of benadryl. Pot, meet kettle? And speaking of coasting, let's look at CityofAs and Enigma. Actually, CityofAs hasn't moved his vote at all day 1, nor has he commented on anyone but me. Tunneling much? Also, David Parker promised a content post on Saturday and hasn't posted it yet. Plus,

I think he may be due for a prod too.

I'm still not following the vig thing. We don't know if we have a vig (and I don't want to know), and even if we do, I don't get how the vig shooting someone other than Zdenek clears him. Sure, having a vig and a bulletproof townie is one way to balance things, but a bulletproof townie is also balance for an overpowered scum team, or lack of a doc, or any number of things.

[smargaret]

Yes, and I was participating last week (well, better than this week, anyway). How is my oop vote bad? He did something scummy, I wagoned him, he proceeded to OMGUS me and it's not the first scummy thing he's done.

[smargaret]

A brief case:

He's sheeping - Antihero's arguments on Mari, your arguments on me, LMP's arguments on Zdenek. The FOS's all rub me the wrong way - one or two, okay, but the pattern of FOS someone and then two-three posts later vote them seems off, like testing the waters. That may be a meta thing and I need to read some other games and see if it is. He keeps contradicting himself - Mariyta's reaction to the daykill is scummy, but it's legitimate for town not to want to die? He disagrees with fitz's push on LMP, votes LMP anyway, and says he has his own reason for it but doesn't ever describe it? Quick reversals - he FOS's LMP, but then suddenly LMP is town as town can be - I strongly suspect that there is a connection between LMP and Oop. The previously mentioned points. The overly-long and unnecessary wallposts that make it look like he's contributing a lot (see the objection! post).

I'll flesh it out tomorrow if you want specific post numbers and quotes.

[smargaret]

Where's Antihero's question? I must have missed it. I'll respond to Oop tomorrow after rereading his iso again - admittedly, that case was the product of a quick skim of the iso because I've had a nagging feeling of unease about his posts, and I was looking for what was causing it after Fate asked me for a case.

[smargaret]

Smarg's So-called Case

He's sheeping - Antihero's arguments on Mari, your arguments on me, LMP's arguments on Zdenek.

Fact: I started pushing Mariyta well before Antihero did. Fact: My #360 shows that I would've voted you save that I was still more interested in a Zed lynch (which Fate has talked me out of, for the moment), and this came before Fate's vote for you. Fact: Two players sharing similar reactions (re: LMP and me) does not mean one player is sheeping the other.

Additional Fact: I have spent a significant portion of this game driving the case behind Havingfitz, yet you fail to make any mention of this.

It seems a lot like sheeping when you quote Fate's post and then vote. As for the Fitz thing, if you're pushing his lynch, why has your vote been all over the place today? I didn't address it when I made the case because the back and forth is confusing and I wanted to wait until daytime to look closer at it, and I thought it was better to get something out fast than pretty.

The FOS's all rub me the wrong way - one or two, okay, but the pattern of FOS someone and then two-three posts later vote them seems off, like testing the waters.

So if something changes shortly after I FoS someone and it makes me want to vote for the player I just FoSed, I shouldn't put my vote where I feel it's best served? What about the other FoSes I've made that haven't resulted in a vote (Antihero being a prime example)? What, exactly, is scummy about the way I decide to FoS people?

It's the repeated FOSing that looks like testing the waters more than the FOSing then voting.

He keeps contradicting himself - Mariyta's reaction to the daykill is scummy, but it's legitimate for town not to want to die?

Misrep. A townsperson, in general, has every right to get pissed at being killed. This does not mean that I thought Mariyta's reaction was town when I voted her.

Nope. You're trying to look town by talking about pro-town mafia theory - and then you're not applying it to the game, as far as I can see.

He disagrees with fitz's push on LMP, votes LMP anyway, and says he has his own reason for it but doesn't ever describe it?

First, I've never voted for LMP this entire game, so I'm going to assume you mean the FoS. Second, the reason for the FoS was included in the paragraph directly following the FoS. Admittedly, the FoS coud have been put in the same line as the explanation to make it clearer, but it should not have been that hard to see my FoS, see some suspicion about the person I just FoSed expressed in the next paragraph, and conclude that the aforementioned suspicion is why I FoSed that person.

Then what did you dislike about fitz's push on LMP?

Quick reversals - he FOS's LMP, but then suddenly LMP is town as town can be

LMP offered a satisfactory explanation for the reason I FoSed him, and my ISO read of him found him town. How is this a quick reversal?

I don't see how someone can go from worthy of an FOS to obvtown in that timeframe, short of a clear investigation - and we haven't had any such thing show up yet.

I strongly suspect that there is a connection between LMP and Oop.

Your point?

I have a null-scum read on LMP, I think you and LMP are the same alignment and confirmed to each other based on your interactions, so the read on LMP makes me more inclined to think you're scum. It's also something to note for later should one of you flip/be cleared/be confirmed scum.

The previously mentioned points.

Elaborate.

The points I made in the post in which I voted you. Your comments about the vig sounded like rolefishing, I suspect there was scum on the Zdenek wagon based on how quickly it grew, and I'd had a gut scum feeling about you.

The overly-long and unnecessary wallposts that make it look like he's contributing a lot (see the objection! post).

Well, since I've only had two posts (to my recollection) that have actually been accused by anyone of being fake content posts, let's just take a look at them, shall we?

#1: The Vote-Count Quote post.

• The only content in the post is my FoS of you. The rest of it is a mass-quoting of VCs to emphatically point out the excess comma that the mod left in the vote count (decidedly
  not
  content). Frankly, I'm surprised that you consider a mass-quoting of VCs an actual attempt at making content, fake or not.

#2: The Objection post.
This is a content post in every way imaginable. The only reason you claim to have a problem with it is because I decided to include pretty pictures to help reinforce my points.

I'm just getting a general feel from you of trying to look town. No single one of these points is strong enough to warrant a vote, but they're all there together ... you feel very suspicious to me.[/area]

Please forgive any tagfails. Oop, can you link me a completed town and scum game please?

David Parker still hasn't posted that content he promised.

Mariyta's last post sucked. She said nothing and the Enigma vote feels like voting for the sake of voting. I also feel like she's been trying to buddy Antihero for much of the game.

I love how Fate of all people sees jumping on a bandwagon as scummy, lol.

[smargaret]

Enigma, it's not flavor=alignment speculation, it's flavor=role speculation. Based on the only other character information I have, I believe flavor and role do go together.

Why don't you expect to see Z in lylo? Do you think we're likely to lynch him between now and then? Because unless we do, he will be in lylo - either because he's scum or because he can't be nk'd.

The reason I mentioned your name was people were saying I was scum for lurking. I pointed out that there were three other players who had been lurking worse than me, and unless they thought there were four scum in a game this size, lurking might not be the best reason the vote.

Is there anything in your catchup other than "If A is scum, B is not," statements? Because I'm not seeing a whole lot in the way of scumhunting there.

[smargaret]

Oop, where did I say I thought Z was scum?

[smargaret]

Fitz: Thank you for seeing what I was saying about Oop and LMP.

I find it

very

interesting that if Mariyta had to choose between me, Zdenek, and fitz she'd choose me ... but I actually come across as fairly town? That doesn't follow.

Someone asked for my stance on Zdenek; it was null before the claim. I didn't see where the case was coming from (now I suspect it may have been chainsaw defending from Oop), and with a believable claim, now it's null-leaning-town.

[smargaret]

Sorry, Oop, I overlooked your questions.

I do believe Zed's alignment. The flavor speculation, however, was all about the role - and I was explaining to Antihero that Butters does make sense as bulletproof, despite how the TV show makes it seem. As you are so (not) fond of saying, RTFT.

Where is your most recent rebuttal?

[smargaret]

@ Mod, why is CityofAs still voting?

Oop, I still think you're scum. I'm not going to back-and-forth on your most recent rebuttal, because it would be an exercise in "Yes you are, no I'm not" - you didn't actually argue anything new, just rephrased what you'd already said - and that's not productive and I don't want to add another wallpost to this game. Your recent play hasn't led me to reassess my read of you, either.

DavidParker's most recent post doesn't make any sense to me. How does he know what scum would likely do?

Enigma, why aren't you voting? Have you voted at all this game?

[smargaret]

Mariyta, you've been fencesitting all game - when was the last time you gave an opinion? I agree, it's scummy as heck, and nobody else seems to be willing to wagon Oop, so

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mariyta

[smargaret]

How am I pushing for no lynch? Nobody's willing to wagon Oop with me, and several people have expressed interest in going after Mariyta - why shouldn't I switch to my second suspect, especially if she has a more viable wagon?

By the way, you can start contributing any time now, Enigma.

[smargaret]

I'm going to be sort of v/la the rest of the week doing Christmas stuff; do you want me to claim now?

[smargaret]

If I get lynched today on a gut read, I will be very angry. And

I hold grudges.

(this is for essentially the same reason Mariyta would have been angry to die on page 2 - Dresden Files are some of my favorite books)

LMP, which post are you referring to?

Vague crumb.

I am Kincaid, the vengeful townie. I get to kill someone when I get lynched. And right now, I'm pretty irked with Oop.

[smargaret]

As far as I'm aware, I get to choose who dies. I'm choosing between Oop and Mari. Town should keep a very close eye on Enigma, too, but I'm less convinced Enigma is scum.

So who is town willing to wagon tomorrow out of Oop and Mari?