Mini 1075 - Fishtown Mafia

[Empking]

Ah, sorry "wouldn't be done as scum" You could've pointed it our rather than force me to search for it.

Presuming it was a freudian slip rather than a simple mistake, is there any reason that I as scum would not be "worried about DP because the action evberyone keeps going on about (the buddying) and the way he went about it wouldn't be done as town."

[Corvuus]

short version:

possible permutations:

EMP town, DP town
EMP town, DP scum
EMP scum, DP town
EMP scum, DP scum

agreed?

DP is buddying you. there are only so many possible reasons and permutations from this. i.e. if DP is scum, and he is buddying you (and you are town) then he is trying to setup your mislynch? if you are scum and DP is town, then you simply don't care since DP lynch is not indicative of your alignment and your lynch could result in his mislynch. If you are both scum or both town, then there are other possibilities which we could all guess at.

Either way, your literal response (i won't get into implied) is not so good.

In terms of answering your direct question:
"is there any reason that i as scum would not be worried about DP" (implied as scum but could be town).

This also looks bad and calls into question why you thought FA more lynchable than DP.

Example: Let's say DP is town but SUPER SCUMMY town and that you are scum. You aren't worried about DP buddying since people usually lynch the scummy buddy first as a indicator and when he flips town, then you couldn't careless since everyone would say "DP was buddying, but as town, it doesn't mean much".

However, this isn't what was said or what happened. Your self-quote is "worried about DP because the action everyone keeps going on about (the buddying) and the way he went about it wouldn't be done as town". I.e. DP is scum/scummy because of what he did. Why didn't you mention this previously, now and why choose FA over DP? If you are town, then wouldn't you worry about someone of a unknown alignment buddying you?

C

[Rhinox]

vote Corvuus

The fact that the FA lynch didn't happen and no lynch was allowed to happen makes me think it is even more likely FA/Corvuus is scum and his buddies didn't vote for him to allow a no-lynch to happen.

{havingfitz, lrdwhyt, cruelty, nocmen, DP} - there are definitely scum here for allowing the mislynch to happen, whatever corvuus' allignment is.

[Corvuus]

oh ok. Rhinox is scum. that makes things simple.

no-lynch =! mislynch.

so you know i am a mislynch and are sad i didn't get lynched? you and EMPking are interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freudian_slip

meant to say no lynch but said mislynch?

debatable whether we can lynch Rhinox/EMP based on words but your response is interesting. No lynch occurring is nowhere indicative of my alignment nor of the people around at deadline. If the majority rules were 'normal/clearer', i probably would have been lynched. So for you to argue that a misinterpretation/misunderstanding/lack of lynch implies scum is pretty scummy since it simply isn't true in this circumstance in this game and with these rules.

Plus, there is the more obvious situation where either a. scum were already voting for me in part or whole. b. scum didn't want to place the hammer and thought majority would deadline lynch me. either way, your conclusions aren't good.

Up for a Rhinox, EMP, Singer scumteam. Maybe DP switch with singer? but we'll see when he responds.

Corv

[Rhinox]

No just a simple mistake. I said no lynch in the line above.

If you were sure it was a slip and I'm scum, then you would have voted me. You threw it out there and you're waiting to see if the rest of the town goes along with it before committing to it.

[Empking]

Cor: In your few posts you've scumhunted mainly by slips of the tongues from other players. Are you able to provide a town game where you did that?

[DavidParker]

Vote: Rhinox

[DavidParker]

I'll gladly go along with it.

This looks more promising than the FA wagon.

[havingfitz]

I must say it looked like a slip to me as well. I need to look Rhinox over before I put my vote on him but before I do....

@ Rhinox...your little list of potential scum for letting the FA "mislynch" not take place (and I'm quite certin you meant to say lynch) is no differnt than saying the people on the FA wagon (to include yourself MrSlip) probably contain scum for not being on the scumEmp wagon. I think a Rhinox-Emp combo (plus perhaps singer???) has some merit.

[Rhinox]

@ Rhinox...your little list of potential scum for letting the FA "mislynch" not take place (and I'm quite certin you meant to say lynch) is no differnt than saying the people on the FA wagon (to include yourself MrSlip) probably contain scum for not being on the scumEmp wagon. I think a Rhinox-Emp combo (plus perhaps singer???) has some merit.

FA was at L-1 at deadline. Emp had 2 votes at deadline. So how do you justify calling out people on the FA wagon for not voting empking? That doesn't make any sense, especially since you would have to equally call out everyone else not voting FA or empking. So... {corvuus, Incognito, AdumbroDeus, Rhinox, DavidParker, cruelty, singersigner, Nocmen} are all scummy for not lynching emp at deadline?

[Incognito]

Oh, this is actually really easy.

vote: Corvuus

I'm surprised people are attacking Rhinox's logic when I pretty much thought the same thing just now. If Corvuus is town, then I can't see any reason why he wasn't just lynched Yesterday unless all of the scum were on his wagon already (doubted, since assuming three scum, that would mean the scum is all within {Rhinox, signersigner, Empking, and Adumbro) or one or two of the scum were just chilling or inactive or something along those lines around deadline. I guess I could potentially see a Rhinox/singersigner possibility if the first scenario is what's going on here, but I really don't think those two are scum together - they've almost been too blatant with each other. And I still think Emp/Adumbro are likely town.

If Corvuus is scum though, it makes perfect sense - the scum basically spared their buddy from the noose.

I agree that singersigner is scummy but Corvuus should almost certainly be the play Today.

This looks more promising than the FA wagon.

Why?

[Incognito]

Also, I should note that I'll be V/LA tomorrow and Monday.

[Corvuus]

FA being L-1 at deadline is not conclusive and the issue is that Pre-deadline, the lynch could have easily been DP, EMP or FA. Arguing that I should have been lynched since FA was at L-1 is basically saying that an AFK-non present (no defense, nothing) person wasn't around to defend himself so you guys were able to vote him up with EMP, etc. pushing non-existent case and others hoping on since, in general, it is better to lynch someone day 1 than not lynching.

However, consider this Incognito:

Assuming I am scum and I do have scumbuddies, don't you think it MUCH more likely that scumbuddies would try to wagon someone else or divert attention away from their 'afk' scumbuddy? Wouldn't they see the wagon forming and instead of 'yawn bus + oh wait, let's no lynch save at the end' they could just wagon EMP/DP?

Failure of deadline lynch (when DP, and most others probably) thought i/FA would have been deadline lynched is not indicative of alignment, nor is your assumption the most likely. Least likely and, since I am town, it isn't true.

I'm still inclined towards incognito town.
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Rhinox: i only have one vote. I'm not going to unvote every single time one of my top 3 scum suspects says something scummy and flip-flop vote. EMP/Rhinox are likely scum. i'm voting for EMP since he is much more likely. If you'd rather yourself be lynched instead, then feel free to try.


EMP: i play fairly consistently in all my games. if my above answers (i.e. word slip persecution for reactions) is not an acceptable form of scumhunting to you, then let me know. The issue, as with MC-day 1 suggestion, is whether word-slippage is used exclusively, pressingly, informatively in whether it is pro-town to do so.

I'm not lynching based on 'slips of tongue'. It is potential lynching based on reactions and interaction with slips of tongue. I.e. i call you out on it. How you respond is how I determine whether it is an actual town-tell or a scum-tell or null/inconclusive yet. Pretty much the whole point of a pro-town MC day 1 suggestion is to 'reaction-fish', get a baseline and see how people think, etc.

I.e. I noticed other parts in Rhinox's previous posts so I put him as maybe-town but some worry parts. This may have resulted in his response and that just pushes the issue onwards. I think Hercule Poirot does say that conversation undoes all murderers or some paraphrase like that.

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Incognito: Re-read Rhinox's post and consider EXACTLY what he has said word for word, and what you personally and logically think word for word.

I.e. your reason for lynching me is that you think I am scum and that I was 'saved'.
Rhinox's reasoning is NOT the same.

post #302 from Rhinox:

vote Corvuus

The fact that the FA lynch didn't happen and no lynch was allowed to happen makes me think it is even more likely FA/Corvuus is scum and his buddies didn't vote for him to allow a no-lynch to happen.

{havingfitz, lrdwhyt, cruelty, nocmen, DP} - there are definitely scum here for allowing the mislynch to happen, whatever corvuus' allignment is.

The first part would lead you to think that his reasoning is similar to what Incognito said. His second part (with or without the slip pending what you think of Rhinox) includes the "whatever Corvuus' alignment is".

Incognito voting me doesn't bother me since he actually thinks i am scum and that I was somehow saved (even though not optimal play as mentioned earlier) while Rhinox says my alignment doesn't matter. and that scum are in that group that 'let' me live... even though my alignment doesn't matter.

This is not logical play. Of course my alignment matters. Please consider it more.

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Corvuus

[havingfitz]

Insomnia sucks.

@mod...the D1 final vote count was wrong. Fallen Angel had unvoted. I assume the 5 votes on FA out of ten cast is still not enough to get a lynch but wanted to bring it up just in case.

The fact that the FA lynch didn't happen and no lynch was allowed to happen makes me think it is even more likely FA/Corvuus is scum and his buddies didn't vote for him to allow a no-lynch to happen.

{havingfitz, lrdwhyt, cruelty, nocmen, DP} - there are definitely scum here for allowing the mislynch to happen, whatever corvuus' allignment is.

@ Rhinox...your little list of potential scum for letting the FA "mislynch" not take place (and I'm quite certin you meant to say lynch) is no differnt than saying the people on the FA wagon (to include yourself MrSlip) probably contain scum for not being on the scumEmp wagon. I think a Rhinox-Emp combo (plus perhaps singer???) has some merit.

FA was at L-1 at deadline. Emp had 2 votes at deadline. So how do you justify calling out people on the FA wagon for not voting empking? That doesn't make any sense, especially since you would have to equally call out everyone else not voting FA or empking. So... {corvuus, Incognito, AdumbroDeus, Rhinox, DavidParker, cruelty, singersigner, Nocmen} are all scummy for not lynching emp at deadline?

I justify it the same way you justify saying the people not on FA's wagon contain scum (which I would agree with regardless of what FA/Cor's alignment is).

The following comments are based on the assumption there are three scum.

If FA/Cor is town....I doubt scum would all be on the wagon. I have to believe some scum would try to avoid being on the mislynch. This coupled with possible confusion on whether we were in a lynch situation (I know I was) and the fact a no lynch IMO is only slightly less advantageous to scum than a mislynch would be more of a deterrent to the entire scum team sitting on the a townFA/Cor wagon. Additionally...at least two of the votes on FA D1 were primarily to avoid a no-lynch so that does not show a lot of support for the FA/Cor case to being with which would make scum have to work harder for the mislynch.

If FA/Cor is scum....I agree with your somewhat obv assessment that there would be scum among those off his wagon. Not much else to say there.

I view the no lynch as a bit of a nulltell re: what FA's alignment is.

[Fishythefish]

@mod...the D1 final vote count was wrong. Fallen Angel had unvoted. I assume the 5 votes on FA out of ten cast is still not enough to get a lynch but wanted to bring it up just in case.

Thanks. This has now been changed. You are right that it made no difference to the outcome.

Incognito's V/LA is noted

[Fishythefish]

Day 2, Votecount 2

singersigner (2) - Nocmen, Empking
Empking (2) - havingfitz, Corvuus
Corvuus (2) - Rhinox, Incognito
Rhinox (1) - DavidParker

Not Voting (4) - AdumbroDeus, cruelty, singersigner, Lrdwhyt

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[DavidParker]

I agree that there is likely scum off his wagon. (Hence my post upon start of day, I am at fault for not hammering at the end of day 1)

However, there had been no talk of the upcoming deadline and no one had even mentioned when it was (as far as I can remember, please correct me if wrong) and there was no urgency to get a lynch happening on that specific day. That is why I had no idea I needed to switch my vote.

[Empking]

Incognito: If town wanted to lynch FA then surely regardless of FA's alignment scum wanted him to live.

[Empking]

Unvote

- I've read another game that Singer is in and I'm no longer convinced she's scum. (I think its playstyle)

Vote: Lrd

[DavidParker]

I agree it's playstyle as well. (OMG Buddying continues!!!)

Although that's what i stated earlier in the game..

[havingfitz]

Unvote

- I've read another game that Singer is in and I'm no longer convinced she's scum. (I think its playstyle)

Vote: Lrd

You are all over the place with your votes. Do you have a reason for voting Lrdwhyt?

Speaking of Lrdwhyt...where is he? I know he was online when I was making my earlier insomnia post.

BTW DP...thanks for the Vi explanation. I've always thought it was just people referring to the player Vi (who I have only been in one game for a brief time) and I couldn't figure out why she was so in/famous. I assume her name is in reference to the same thing but irregardless...at least I'm clear.

[Empking]

Unvote

- I've read another game that Singer is in and I'm no longer convinced she's scum. (I think its playstyle)

Vote: Lrd

You are all over the place with your votes.

I've voted two players today. That's hardly "all over the place".

Do you have a reason for voting Lrdwhyt?

He's a lurking liar.

[havingfitz]

In this entire game...I'm not talking about the last two RL days alone.

[Empking]

Then I've vote four players all game. Again, hardly all over the place.

[Corvuus]

Incognito: If town wanted to lynch FA then surely regardless of FA's alignment scum wanted him to live.

Feel free to explain this more since the 'if then' clause doesn't make sense.

My alignment matters in all cases. To say it doesn't is super-wishy-washy. I'm town, so why would scum want me to live? Why do you guys think my alignment doesn't matter? Trying to have your cake and eat it too.


C