Mini 1068: Prozacs Basic Theme 2: OVER

[Porochaz]

moospiker - 3 - Jahudo, Bub, Strangercoug
Bub - 5 - Blackberry, Reck, drshotty, Rhinox, q21
Reck - 1 - Flameaxe
drshotty - 1 - moospiker,

Not voting -

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[StrangerCoug]

Apparently, I'm being ignored here. Bub Bidderskins,

DO NOT CLAIM YET.

I am Brittany Black, a doctor, and I protected Bub Bidderskins last night. As I have a 25% chance of killing instead of investigating my target, I'm playing it closer to a vig than a doctor. I believe Bub Bisdderskins to be town because the only person to die Night 1 flipped Mafia.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Okay, I've got a lot to get to...

xvart:
Bub:

iso 1: "Why is everyone voting for Blackberry all of a sudden?"
iso 2: "Unvote; Vote: Blackberry"


Attack on Blackberry for asking a theory question seems really weak. Blackberry claims he was trying to spark some discussion. Bub's vote was "simply to get the game moving in the right direction." according to iso 6, then abandoned altogether to vote for SC.

Bub, how exactly was your vote moving the game in the right direction?

It got the focus on scum-hunting instead of theory.

[quote=Voted SC because he didn't know why SC voted for him. Can be interpretted as OMGUS.

iso 7: "Well now I am voting for my top suspect." -

bub, why was SC your top suspect?"

Comes back from Limited Acces for post 9. Still voting SC, but only comments on espy and shotty before the day ends.

bub, why did you continue to vote SC through the end of D1?

1st question, at the time I thought he was scummy with the way he was place late bandwagon votes. 2nd question, because he was my top suspect.

iso 10: "I am not liking espy's explanation. Seriously, why un-vote? Keep the pressure on instead of pulling off into the scummy, wishy-washy zone." - note this is not followed with a vote on espy, he is just pushing the wagon along without committing to it.

"And shotty needs to come in a post some content. He hasn't given the town dead squat." - all that was said about shotty on day 1 by bub...

iso 11: voting shotty for speculating about the night - seems opportunistic.

iso 12: "The reason I voted for Shotty was because he's contributed nothing the town so far, and was speculating about the night."

iso 13: "I thought of shotty as scummy going into D-2, and his night speculation was more of a confirmation."

Alright, here we go. iso 10 was all bub ever said about shotty D1 - nothing there that suggests he thinks shotty is scummy. He votes shotty in 11 and in 12, says it was because he's contributed nothing and speculated about the night. In iso 13, after being questioned by q21, backpedals to say that he actually found shotty scummy going into D2. The problem is, iso 13 is the first post that bub ever identified shotty as "scummy", in his opinion.

iso 14: disappears for a few days, then show up to put an opportunistic L-1 vote on Moo. In...

...iso 15: claims that he still thinks shotty is scummy after being questioned by jahudo why he abandoned his shotty read.

Bub, what makes you think either moo or shotty can be scum but not both

, as you said in this post.

iso 16: convinced either moo or shotty is scum. Suspicious of reck for defending shotty. calls it a major scum tell if shotty is scum.

"@Shotty: why is it that you never give any reason for your late-vote wagon hopping?" - is a loaded trap question.

bub: what are your reasons for finding shotty scummy?

I've got "contributed nothing D1", and "speculated about the night". That all it takes?

I think I've got enough to feel comfortable with a...

vote: Bub

I felt that shotty was scummy coming in, but didn't voice my opinion. It was more of a hunch really. If there are any questions that I missed, please bring them to my attention.

I also doubt if the tags work out right X-(.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Okay, looks like I missed two questions:

bub: what are your reasons for finding shotty scummy? I've got "contributed nothing D1", and "speculated about the night". That all it takes?

Add "contributed nothing d-2" to that list. And yes it's enough, coupled with his opportunistic voting patterns.

Bub, what makes you think either moo or shotty can be scum but not both, as you said in this post.

iso 16: convinced either moo or shotty is scum. Suspicious of reck for defending shotty. calls it a major scum tell if shotty is scum.

Because the scum would have to be really stupid for both of they're remaining members to be

A) Voting for each other
B) Obv scum

[Jahudo]

I am Brittany Black, a doctor, and I protected Bub Bidderskins last night. As I have a 25% chance of killing instead of investigating my target, I'm playing it closer to a vig than a doctor. I believe Bub Bisdderskins to be town because the only person to die Night 1 flipped Mafia.

How could that account for the mafia death? It would require something like a bus driver wouldn't it? Otherwise the only person you could have killed was Bub. Still, it is a possibility.

I think Moo is the better choice today with or without this claim. I just don't think Bub's actions towards shotty are as opportunistic. He seems to start with small suspicions, true, but that doesn't mean they are insincere attempts at picking out scum. He's just suspicious of what he sees as non-contributors it seems.

[Blackberry]

Apparently, I'm being ignored here. Bub Bidderskins,

DO NOT CLAIM YET.

I am Brittany Black, a

doctor

, and I protected Bub Bidderskins last night. As I have a 25% chance of killing instead of

investigating

my target, I'm playing it closer to a vig than a doctor. I believe Bub Bisdderskins to be town because the only person to die Night 1 flipped Mafia.

A) Were you planning to claim Cop and then decided to claim Doctor instead? "doctor" ... "investigating" .. huh?
B) If you only have a 25% chance of killing, why would you play it like a Vig? Cautious, yes, but like a vig, no.
C) POROCHAZ WOULD NOT HAVE A ROLE THAT IS ".25 chance you kill, .75 chance you save" ... learn your mods better.
D) Who the hell would claim because someone you may or may not have protected is about to get lynched?

Bub and Stranger are mafia partners.

Also, mafia death is highly likely due to another Bus Driver. Also, why would a Mafia kill Bub? Fail.

Stranger didn't want to lose his last mafia partner thinking there is another killing role out there so he made this gambit. Tough luck.

Mafia identified.

Now, let's grab some beer and hope there isn't a serial killer.

[Rhinox]

unvote

[Rhinox]

vote blackberry

[StrangerCoug]

I am Brittany Black, a doctor, and I protected Bub Bidderskins last night. As I have a 25% chance of killing instead of investigating my target, I'm playing it closer to a vig than a doctor. I believe Bub Bisdderskins to be town because the only person to die Night 1 flipped Mafia.

How could that account for the mafia death? It would require something like a bus driver wouldn't it? Otherwise the only person you could have killed was Bub. Still, it is a possibility.

It can also be called a serial killer or a vigilante.

Apparently, I'm being ignored here. Bub Bidderskins,

DO NOT CLAIM YET.

I am Brittany Black, a

doctor

, and I protected Bub Bidderskins last night. As I have a 25% chance of killing instead of

investigating

my target, I'm playing it closer to a vig than a doctor. I believe Bub Bisdderskins to be town because the only person to die Night 1 flipped Mafia.

A) Were you planning to claim Cop and then decided to claim Doctor instead? "doctor" ... "investigating" .. huh?

Whoops—meant protecting and not investigating. This is what I get for defending Bub Bidderskins to death. I've messed up like that as town before (briefly forgot that game that I couldn't be nightkilled).

B) If you only have a 25% chance of killing, why would you play it like a Vig? Cautious, yes, but like a vig, no.

It's because I have a known chance of killing

AT ALL

. When Wheel of Fortune Mafia was being reviewed, I was told that correct play for the insane doctors (by name) were to play it like a vig.

C) POROCHAZ WOULD NOT HAVE A ROLE THAT IS ".25 chance you kill, .75 chance you save" ... learn your mods better.

Nice try using mod-WIFOM against me.

D) Who the hell would claim because someone you may or may not have protected is about to get lynched?

Me xD

vote blackberry

The hell? Blackberry may have made me unhappy, but that's no fault of his. He's thinking reasonably.

FoS.

[Blackberry]

I am Brittany Black, a doctor, and I protected Bub Bidderskins last night. As I have a 25% chance of killing instead of investigating my target, I'm playing it closer to a vig than a doctor. I believe Bub Bisdderskins to be town because the only person to die Night 1 flipped Mafia.

How could that account for the mafia death? It would require something like a bus driver wouldn't it? Otherwise the only person you could have killed was Bub. Still, it is a possibility.

It can also be called a serial killer or a vigilante.

Apparently, I'm being ignored here. Bub Bidderskins,

DO NOT CLAIM YET.

I am Brittany Black, a

doctor

, and I protected Bub Bidderskins last night. As I have a 25% chance of killing instead of

investigating

my target, I'm playing it closer to a vig than a doctor. I believe Bub Bisdderskins to be town because the only person to die Night 1 flipped Mafia.

A) Were you planning to claim Cop and then decided to claim Doctor instead? "doctor" ... "investigating" .. huh?

Whoops—meant protecting and not investigating. This is what I get for defending Bub Bidderskins to death. I've messed up like that as town before (briefly forgot that game that I couldn't be nightkilled).

B) If you only have a 25% chance of killing, why would you play it like a Vig? Cautious, yes, but like a vig, no.

It's because I have a known chance of killing

AT ALL

. When Wheel of Fortune Mafia was being reviewed, I was told that correct play for the insane doctors (by name) were to play it like a vig.

C) POROCHAZ WOULD NOT HAVE A ROLE THAT IS ".25 chance you kill, .75 chance you save" ... learn your mods better.

Nice try using mod-WIFOM against me.

D) Who the hell would claim because someone you may or may not have protected is about to get lynched?

Me xD

vote blackberry

The hell? Blackberry may have made me unhappy, but that's no fault of his. He's thinking reasonably.

FoS.

Hmmm, this response makes me question my theory.

A) and C) are the main points that

to me

make me think you may be protecting a scum buddy. (D) I *could* see myself claim if I was 100% sure I saved someone in a situation, or I may just have a skewed perception due to last game, after mafia died my instant thought was "Bus driver" not "doctor protection"... (B) I

really

don't know what I would do

if

I had a role like that. C, however, is still a main point for me. I've talked with Porochaz before. He and I think alike in terms of set-up and guidelines for roles and role balance. And one thing I would

never

do is have a role that involves

luck

such as you mentioned.

Regardless, Bub is scum.

[Rhinox]

So, I didn't really have a lot of time last night. Here's what was going through my head.

First off, I just wanted to unvote so no one would hammer bub while I thought about what SC's claim meant. Then I saw blackberry's post. I find it kind of proposterous to think SC is scum gambiting and is bub's scum partner. Points A-D aren't really valid. And then the structure of the post (the bold text, the use of color, and the large text) along with the "let's all grab a beer" line just seemed like a lot of pandering - maybe thats not the right word - just seemed unnecessary like it was all meant to seem more convincing with bold text or color or big letters. I've also had it stuck in my mind how xvart rushed to blackberry's defense when bub voted him yesterday, and that xvart and blackberry actually both random voted each other (pretty wifomy, but interesting).

#384 seems like blackberry is backpedaling out of the position now. Important because "Hmmm, this response makes me question my theory." doesn't really make any sense in regards to SC's post. A) if SC really did commit a scum slip when he said investigating, of course he's going to claim it was just a simple mistake. D) isn't really an answer at all. B) is the only valid answer as it potentially explains why SC would play the role how he is, but blackberry doesn't really give any emphasis to that being the specific point that makes him question his theory. And then he claims C) is still valid which is absolutely mod wifom.

What I'm saying is, for as sure as blackberry was in #380 that SC was bubs scum partner, SC didn't really say anything at all in #383 that should make blackberry question his theory.

----------------------------------------------------

@SC: had you not protected bub, what would your opinion of him be? I ask because...

Rhinox's case is decent, but still not tipping me.

...you seemed to think there was a decent case against him. Did you think about the possiblity that bub is 3rd party or maybe even second mafia before claiming?

[q21]

Apparently, I'm being ignored here. Bub Bidderskins,

DO NOT CLAIM YET.

I am Brittany Black, a doctor, and I protected Bub Bidderskins last night. As I have a 25% chance of killing instead of investigating my target, I'm playing it closer to a vig than a doctor. I believe Bub Bisdderskins to be town because the only person to die Night 1 flipped Mafia.

Well shit. Now I don't know what to think anymore...

Unvote

While I consider. My vote may just go straight back here, but I'm not sure just at the minute.

[Moospiker]

Errrrmmmmm.... Bub wagon took off fast?

And SC's claim... bit of a strange one if I'm honest.

[Flameaxe]

And that means...who is scum?

[Moospiker]

SC.

Vote: SC

[Flameaxe]

SC.

Vote: SC

Why?

[StrangerCoug]

A) and C) are the main points that

to me

make me think you may be protecting a scum buddy. (D) I *could* see myself claim if I was 100% sure I saved someone in a situation, or I may just have a skewed perception due to last game, after mafia died my instant thought was "Bus driver" not "doctor protection"... (B) I

really

don't know what I would do

if

I had a role like that. C, however, is still a main point for me. I've talked with Porochaz before. He and I think alike in terms of set-up and guidelines for roles and role balance. And one thing I would

never

do is have a role that involves

luck

such as you mentioned.

Similarly ≠ alike.

@SC: had you not protected bub, what would your opinion of him be? I ask because...

Rhinox's case is decent, but still not tipping me.

...you seemed to think there was a decent case against him. Did you think about the possiblity that bub is 3rd party or maybe even second mafia before claiming?

Had I not protected Bub, I would likely not have stalled his lynch either. That he may be third party was played around with a bit, but I'm no good at separating Mafia tells from SK tells. There is no descriptor for the Mafia flip, so a second Mafia group would have to be a werewolf.

[Moospiker]

SC.

Vote: SC

Why?

His claim is strange.

[StrangerCoug]

Be more specific, Moospiker. Your vote is a joke to me at this point.

[Moospiker]

25% chance of killing? It rings alarm bells. If it was 50% then I'd go with it.

[StrangerCoug]

Not buying why you think I'm suspicious. Sorry, but you're trying to use mod-WIFOM to get me to die in your place.

[Jahudo]

SC did change his attitude towards Bub overnight. He says things that suggest he knows something beyond what he's analyzed in the thread.

OK, before I switched to Espeonage, I was voting Bub Bidderskins. I think I'm a little crazy to be going after him at this point.

You unvote Moospiker for claiming vanilla townie

AND

you consider it a tossup between two obvtown players?

I think either SC has to be scum with Bub, or he is town. And if he's town, either his protection accounts for the lack of a scumkill or there is another element out there (bus driver, mafia is poisoner, pgo to name a few).

Based on that I think SC would be an opportunistic lynch, without first lynching Bub.

-Blackberry's opinions look valid because he is arguing they are both scum while keeping his vote on Bub.

-Moo's vote is reactionary, otherwise I think he would say something about Bub here. But the time it took for him to vote, then explain the vote, look like he was deciding what to think about the claim. So I'm even more concerned why he didn't have more to say about it and SC's connection to Bub. I'm even more confident about my vote on Moo.

---------

I've talked with Porochaz before. He and I think alike in terms of set-up and guidelines for roles and role balance. And one thing I would never do is have a role that involves luck such as you mentioned.

Is this established somewhere on the site? I think the claim actually fits what Poro said about this game:

No unusual roles but roles that wouldn't necessarily fit into a mini normal

Sane/Paranoid/Naive/CPR Doc all fall under the category of normal to me anyway, so if this role was one that "wouldn't necessarily fit", I can see this as a possible reason why.

[Flameaxe]

25% chance of killing? It rings alarm bells. If it was 50% then I'd go with it.

What makes 50% more believable than 25%? What motive do you think SC has as scum to claim a role as specific as he did? Why do you want to lynch a potential 75% doc? That seems silly at this point.

[xRECKONERx]

post tomorrow

[Moospiker]

50% is more regular.

WIFOM

Because I don't believe the claim. Why can't you just accept this? If you can't, just vote me or whatever.