Mini 1064 - Charlie's Town (Game Over!)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I've thought about it and CB's claim just doesn't make sense as a sacrificial play.

Unvote

Before we lynch mas though, I want to give Nacho a chance to share his N1 action since with the amount of claimed power, there's good odds on either reckamonic being fake-claiming scum or scum having a roleblocker. In either case you'd die Nacho along with the information you have.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

EBWOP: In either you'd die, Nacho, along with the information you have.

[Reckamonic]

CES, with all of us alive and Mas claiming townie and being tracked to llama, that would make him the roleblocker.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Good point. Disregard all of that then.

Vote: mass

[masfloohinev]

Nacho, three questiobns:
1. Why do you think the hydras are the same allignment?
2. If Llama was scum, would you have died?
3. What are your remaining abilities and the ones you have used already?

The way I see it, when I flip town, there shouldn't be any second thoughts as to who gets lynched next (CB). After that, you guys should lynch jmurph and then CES. This is what I think the plan needs to be at the moment, but I need to hear the answers to those questions from Nacho. They'll probably change my mind. If Nacho is town and he is telling the truth about CB and Reckamonic being buddies, that means that he is scum with only one of CES and jmurph. Of course, Nachoscum is looking more likely too. In which case, I'll still have to make some changes to my list.

[LlamaFluff]

Yeah Nacho is not claiming what abilities he has left. Claiming what he used N1 is acceptable, at least telling us why he is so sure since if we can get a clear that furthers the pool of cleared players.

Im going to be giddy if it really is M, CES and jmurph.

For all practical purposes my vote is on M at this point, but I want to know how sure Nacho is about CB-Reck same alignment first.

[SpyreX]

With a doc claim AND this being either the RB or a lying CB the real question becomes:

Is it worth outing the save and planning the rest of this puppy out?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Outing the save? Reckamonic already claimed to have forgotten to send their action in.

[SpyreX]

Nacho's save, if it were a save.

If it was a RB on NOT mas well thats easymode.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

So you missed the part where he claimed to have hidden behind llama?

[SpyreX]

:sadface:

Yep, sure did.

WELP.

[SpyreX]

It doesn't change much. Nacho clears Llama, Tracker gives us the RB, Reck as doc means victory I think in most scenarios.

[Charlie]

Vote count 18

masfloohinev (3) - Reckamonic, Casus Belli, Cogito Ergo Sum
Casus Belli (1) - masfloohinev

Not voting: SpyreX, Nachomamma8, Llamafluff, Substrike22, jmurph3
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

[Reckamonic]

MORE MAS VOTES.
NOW.

[Reckamonic]

CES is voting Mass, btw

[SpyreX]

Unvote, Vote: Mas

[masfloohinev]

I don't see why there would be two investigative roles in addition to a JOAT that seems to have an investigative power. Casus Belli has to be lying. To be fair, I would probably be supporting my lynch right now as well if I didn't know I was town, but I just thought I would bring up that point about Casus Belli. Their explanation for investigating me and not CES again is really bad also, and isn't a logical town thought process.

However, we should at least see how Nachomamma answers those questions first? Each of those answers is very important and we need to hear each of them before we end the day. We need to know why Nacho thinks Reckamonic and CB are buddies in case he dies tonight, because when CB flips scum tomorrow, you won't know if Reckamonic is actually also scum or not. We also need to know if his night action last night confirms Llama as town for the same reason. Knowing his remaining abilities can help us coordinate night actions tonight.

Reckamonic, chill out. We've got plenty of time. We've got absolutely

NO

possible reason to end the day right now. Only scum have motivation to end the day today. There are many important things we still need to discuss/establish before we go to night. We need to hear Nacho's answers to those questions and we need to discuss possible night actions for tonight.

[masfloohinev]

Why shouldn't we hear the answers to my second and third questions directed at Nacho?

[LlamaFluff]

Tomorrow jmurph dies. Remember how I kept saying he constantly called M his second suspect but always refused to vote him for whatever reason? Yeah. Thats right. Also we have the awesome thing of M never commenting on my jmurph case and instead calling for the FG hammer until he opened up with a vote of him the next day.

M
jmurph
???

This game, always fun.

Still essentially voting M, just want to get something answered.

Nacho needs to claim why he thinks CB-Reck are same alignment. Nacho should NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES claim remaining abilities. We are not discussing night actions since there are no forced wins, "Dont be stupid" works as a good rule of thumb.

[masfloohinev]

LlamaFluff, I like your suspicion of jmurph, but just ftr, I already gave my stance on jmurph. Your case was pretty much the same/didn't change my read. And as for calling for FG hammer and voting jmurph today, FG was getting more support yesterday, but him flipping town meant jmurph was almost definitely scum. Doesn't matter though: I'm going to flip town. Do you have anything to say about my points against CB?

I still don't understand why we shouldn't discuss night actions. For example, if Nachomamma has a protective ability and knows that you are town, we could have him protect you and Reckamonic protect him or something like that, to keep the confirmed innocents in the game. The way I see it, Nachomammascum shouldn't even be considered, because scum probably wouldn't no-kill just to confirm him, when they could just go to LyLo and win immediately.

[Reckamonic]

No.
We should not discuss night actions.
We should assume that the players are intelligent and can make good decisions.

[LlamaFluff]

And as for calling for FG hammer and voting jmurph today, FG was getting more support yesterday, but him flipping town meant jmurph was almost definitely scum. Doesn't matter though: I'm going to flip town. Do you have anything to say about my points against CB?

Your response to what I put up on jmurph was "Someone hammer [FG]". If you are going to cite "wagon movement" thats a weak one since jmurph was picking up speed there. Also your case against CB is "he is scum as I am town". Hard for me to agree with that one.

I still don't understand why we shouldn't discuss night actions. For example, if Nachomamma has a protective ability and knows that you are town, we could have him protect you and Reckamonic protect him or something like that, to keep the confirmed innocents in the game. The way I see it, Nachomammascum shouldn't even be considered, because scum probably wouldn't no-kill just to confirm him, when they could just go to LyLo and win immediately.

Scum will have roles (9:3 with at least two town roles is imbalanced). Most likely a GF (due to cop) and a RBer. I would be far from shocked to see some other role as well if all claims are true. Either way im thinking nacho is a weak/swingy JOAT (due to hide), so this game can be balanced if scum have correct roles. Tracker-cop is only thing that has me on edge but it can be solved by many things like sanity issues, framers, ninja, GF, RB etc. Letting them know what town is planning to do will let them respond with ideal actions, so its a bad thing.

[SpyreX]

Can I unvote so people man up and then I can hammer?

Pleeeeseee

Unvote

[LlamaFluff]

Can I unvote so people man up and then I can hammer?

As soon as nacho says

"I think CB and Reck share and alignment beacuse of <role information/other stuff>" yes I will vote so you can hammer.

[Substrike22]

Mas is dying today.

I have to say though, I'm uneasy about the number of power roles. I'm uneasy, as Llama said, that we'd have both a Cop and a Tracker. I understand sanity issues might balance that, but I am still concerned. I don't see there being 4 pro-town roles in any kind of balanced game. Reck said he'd rage if there were 4 scum, well I think the scum would rage if they had 4 power roles to contend with. Might I suggest that one of our power roles is lying to us. I think it'd be super interesting if Nacho and Casus were scum buddies. Casus "tracks" his scum buddy Mas, (who, may I remind everyone, was pretty high on the "lynchable" list for today, so they didn't lose all that much.) the no kill is explained by a out-of-left-field JOAT claim. Doc and Cop vs. Scum. I'd think that's more likely of a scenario. Plus the Mass Claim that gets suggested today (logical based on the no kill) flushes out any potential investigative roles for a night kill tonight, leaving us unable to check the alignment of the remaining power roles. Thoughts?

I would also echo Llama's call for Nacho to explain himself, unless it compromises his role in some way. I don't know why that information should just be "assumed". I don't think i assume anyone is a "bad" player, but I think it's unfair to assume that anyone in a mafia game is a town player, and this is information. One way or the other.

Once we have that, I'll race Llama for the vote on Mas because I've been wanting this guy since D1.