Mini 1080 -- txtMafia -- Game OVER

[RayFrost]

I don't get it. Currently not liking anti and tasky (we have played in a game before, liar!). What?

Vote: tas

[RayFrost]

Aggressiveness is fine. What you are targeting with it doesn't seem as fine to me. It's gut, no worries.

[RayFrost]

Meh, okay then.
Anti: That ray IS my gut. Isn't it awesome?
Or just a lot of reading. I did it rather quickly. Wiki speaks for itself.

[RayFrost]

1. I don't see anything to say about korts' reasoning for earlygame. 2. It may or may not be. In the meantime, try reading tas' posts to find out.

[RayFrost]

Equi: What did you get out of reading tas' two posts? I'll exchange an answer for the answer.

[RayFrost]

Equi, they

are

idle banter. That's why my vote should be classified as such as well.

Aside from that, my reads are evolving. Press b to stop it.

[RayFrost]

I was trying to save space. Enter counts as a character. Aside from that, I'll make a case when it's a serious vote, mmmkay?

[RayFrost]

oh, reread my post. Previous experience with tasky, bad memories, so he's scum this game.

[RayFrost]

Read my reply to antihero about why I dislike him.

[RayFrost]

We both replaced out I'll call you sky, then.

[RayFrost]

I live in Japan. I have time to be on at least once every day, Japan-time, so very active.

[RayFrost]

I hope fonz was trying to prove his point about how annoying shortened messages are in practice. I feel he's right, due to double post being an option.

[RayFrost]

I'm happy with my tasky vote. Equi's push at anti is a red herring.

[RayFrost]

This arguing against the tasky wagon is bullshit.

I'm betting the scum trying to stifle discussion are antihero and fishy.

[RayFrost]

Reasonless post makes me think so. Whether I think you are scum is irrelevant to my point that you are arguing against a wagon without providing reasons.

[RayFrost]

There's a wagon going on early in the game. This is good. You are trying to remove it with no argument. This is bad. There is stuff to be gained from this wagon

[RayFrost]

I don't believe the burden of proof falls on me for your point there. Please, do explain.

[RayFrost]

I'm definitely

not

seeing a fishy wagon at the moment.

Unvote

for the moment... thinking.

[RayFrost]

I said it was gut on anti. Tas was an initial random vote that turned into a vote left from illfeelings and then removed for secret reasons.

[RayFrost]

To express my current area of interest,

vote mothrax

[RayFrost]

I was thinking more getting my reads out than pressuring antihero over something as simple as that.

Nice trefoil knot, by the way.

[RayFrost]

Whee for claiming opportunism. ^5 Is it because my first vote was on sky when no wagon was there? I love your reaction to the vote: it makes me confident in min

Truncated.

[RayFrost]

Fishy's town, y'all. I'll bet my leftmost button on it.

[RayFrost]

I include this when I say reaction. The loveliest bit is "ray is opportunistic, no supporting evidence" bit.

[RayFrost]

Okay, I'm starting to really dislike this pattern. I vote tasky, wagon goes to him. I switch off, vote mothrax, and now a mothrax wagon is happening.

[RayFrost]

For the significance of the above: I'm

never

the first vote on the popular wagons, especially D1. This makes me leery of the pattern.

[RayFrost]

Kunk, am I the same as tasky or are you asking me the same question as equi? My vote has/had merit.

[RayFrost]

I do, actually. For now, it's wait and see. It's significant because

town shouldn't play follow the leader

.

[RayFrost]

Personally leaning towards [redacted] but I'm not completely certain, so [redacted] is fine for now.

[RayFrost]

Yes, the redacted is an ask me later marker. Hero, why do you believe that town should play follow the leader? It's easy for the leader to be scum.

[RayFrost]

1. I'm aware that it's not simply following me for all votes. 2. Only with monumental effort or in lylo. 3. I always try to find townies.

[RayFrost]

An ask me later marker is a marker saying 'ask me who [redacted] is later and you'll get an answer, but not now'

[RayFrost]

No case off of three posts is possible. My vote was an interest vote as in I was interested in seeing more posts. His posts after have left much to be desired.

[RayFrost]

As to the fishy wagon... I read multiple suspicions of fishy and just assumed there were votes as well. I didn't actually count them to make sure about that

[RayFrost]

Specifically speaking, mothrax displayed suspicion of the fonz, then reread and removed it without giving reasons why. + no support on his vote for me.

[RayFrost]

Not sure how that line of questioning will help, but...: equinox, herodotus, and fonz. I think a combination of those three will be.

[RayFrost]

P.S.: I approve of antihero's 442.

[RayFrost]

Hero, that's because I took the question to mean which of the other players. As for myself, I only have moderate confidence in my own scumhunting.

[RayFrost]

postsplosion. ... that's not why I unvoted. unrelated things. People need to read bettar It's as good a time as any, separate post.

[RayFrost]

[redacted] was equinox. I felt/feel his votes on sky and rax were flimsily reasoned attempts to get in on rising bandwagons just as their tide was rising. tbc

[RayFrost]

His recent posting makes me lean more towards someone that's a bit bumbling but has good intentions rather than scum.

[RayFrost]

Mod: you did mention that. Cry: how is it opportunistic to jump from somebody that people suspect to somebody that nobody has expressed suspicion of?

[RayFrost]

Guys, AV is town. Not sure if I said that before.

[RayFrost]

Yay, Vi. AV is town due to the fact he's bringing up good points and is scumhunting.

[RayFrost]

Yo. Top two at the moment would be mothrax and one of tasky/equinox. Neither of my secondary reads are strong.

[RayFrost]

Ugh. I find this game hard to parse, and it's getting in the way of getting reads. Going to reread and get back to you lot.

[RayFrost]

Something that hero never answered. So, did you find anybody but AV/TF scummy? Don't give me a meta pass. :raeg:

[RayFrost]

On my read, I didn't see anything particularly scummy about kunkstar, going to iso him using hero's post as a reference for what to look at. Lots of town reads.

[RayFrost]

Meant herodotus in the above. I disagree with most of the case on kunk if his post is representative. The "buddying" seems more like tbc

[RayFrost]

Disagreement and then replying to a question. Kunk's switch seems valid to me, but it alone isn't a strong point anyway. Low activ != scum, low s/h = scum.

[RayFrost]

The vote I like least on kunk is chamber's, but I'm not going to get into the mess of providing reasoning when it's what chamber actively doesn't do.

[RayFrost]

By the above I mean that I'm not going to vote chamber over the lack of reasoning. Also,

unvote, vote: sky

[RayFrost]

Reasoning for the above is process of elimination. Town reads: AH, Equi, Hdotus, TF, kunk, AV. Neut: Fish, Vi, Kast. Scum: chamber, sky. Order of town->scum

[RayFrost]

What chamber said.

[RayFrost]

Kunk and AV are just scraping above neutral for me. I read fish's posts. I don't really have a problem with them, but they aren't amazing, so neutral / town.

[RayFrost]

I don't understand what you are saying. Full sentences, please?

[RayFrost]

Oh, nevermind. I consider little s/hing to be scummy behavior, so I don't see any disconnect?

[RayFrost]

Whoops, read the first part of your post without connecting it to the previous one. Little s/hing would be when few posts are promoting the reveal of scum.

[RayFrost]

Basically, active lurking. Little content and/or lots of repeat posts that don't add to discussion or information. Things along those lines indicate little s/hing.

[RayFrost]

It doesn't. That's why all lurkers are scum, just that some aren't mafia.

[RayFrost]

That was towards antihero, you are Hdotus from now on. I decided that cry was scummy, chamber isn't doing anything to dissuade it.

[RayFrost]

My reason for finding her scummy was the lack of backing for her vote on me, which I do recall myself asking for. Chamber's done nada for either way on the read.

[RayFrost]

Sorry, I misremembered. You are correct.

[RayFrost]

I feel the question has some relevance because it was an unanswered question (or so I thought). Recent AV posting is not doing anything good for my read of him,

Truncated. ~~NS

[RayFrost]

The original question was towards hdotus. It was relevant because hdotus had previously said he feels it isn't scummy to follow other players (tbc)

[RayFrost]

It's information about hdotus' views on scummy behavior. If hdotus attacked someone based upon following others, then yeh.

[RayFrost]

Also, hdotus' reasoning is important in its own right because hdotus using arbitrary/flimsy/etc reasons would make his stance an attempt at excusing followthele

Truncated. ~~NS

[RayFrost]

I already feel you had answered it satisfactorily before. No worries.

[RayFrost]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Where did scum-vi and town-me come from? You have no real mention of me or Vi in your iso.

[RayFrost]

The cases would provide for you, sure, but it won't provide for explaining his read on me.

[RayFrost]

Anti... how did that come across to you as a good idea? I knew you were on kunk* before, so I wasn't stressed. I'd think that kunk would pay attention to his voters as well.

[RayFrost]

What's your problem with it? I want to know how AH came to the conclusion that it was a good idea. :/

[RayFrost]

I don't/didn't feel it was anything alignment-wise, it just doesn't make sense to me. I don't like things making little sense.

[RayFrost]

It's less that and more doing it when kunk* isn't even around to give a reaction. I can understand the logic of it just fine, but the timing doesn't match the basis.

[RayFrost]

Because.

[RayFrost]

Back - finally got some good rest (been feeling like hammered shit lately) Gonna post content soonish.

[RayFrost]

AV-wagon feels leery for me. Also confused by this considering this. TF - explain? So far, the only real read change for me is chamber - he's getting better.

[RayFrost]

The first appeared/appears to be asking chamber to give reasons. See my confusion now?

[RayFrost]

P.S. - I can feel this wagon, but I want to get a reread in first.

[RayFrost]

Easier to be aggressive when I can write a lot and not have to measure my posts. I could technically say you aren't particularly aggressive, but it's empty.

Fixed tag. ~~NS

[RayFrost]

I don't see how Vi was taking less of a risk with joining the vote - it was l-1 with less than a day before DL. Easy to explain away the vote if necessary, and

Truncated. ~~NS

[RayFrost]

and it's not a hard wagon to simply jump on for an ensured lynch. (truncation's evil)

[RayFrost]

My read on hdotus. Tasky hasn't "gone" anywhere. I don't feel comfortable going for a PoE lynch on D2 (D1 is fine for me, but D2 is iffy an needs more backing).

[RayFrost]

Clarification: A PoE lynch for me is fine, but using it as the pure basis of an early vote just feels pointless to me. It's about as worthwhile as voting somebo

Truncated. ~~NS

[RayFrost]

The kast v hdotus argument looks like a bunch of noise to me. Can somebody explain how it's remotely useful for finding scum

in this game

?

[RayFrost]

Oh god. I forgot about this game! DX I'll get to you guys real quick.

[RayFrost]

'kay, read through. Hdotus: do you find chamber's reasoning satisfactory? If so, why have you not voted me yet?

[RayFrost]

The wagon on me seems purely based upon passivity on my part - how is this a scumtell?

[RayFrost]

Ah's defense of me feels halfbaked and flimsy - I take it as a scumtell (ctd)

[RayFrost]

The defense looks more like a "lol ur wrong" that can be applied without backing, which seems more lay attempt to get brownie points for the town flip (ctd)

[RayFrost]

or like mud slinging towards Vi without any real reasoning - either way, AH feels scummy for it. The latter has potential for distancing, but highly unlikely.

[RayFrost]

Of the votes/players on me, I feel the least positively about fishy's vote / play this game.

[RayFrost]

Vi's posting is leaning town, TF is still a solid town read, and I've no idea about chamber. I find him almost impossible to read.

[RayFrost]

I feel that AH's vote on kast is a throwaway that doesn't really do anything. I'll check my role PM and claim.

[RayFrost]

Aaaand I'm a VT.

[RayFrost]

Tasky's still annoying for me - I tink there's a chance that his play is just like this, but I can't rid myself of the feeling that he's scum.

[RayFrost]

I feel that the tasky / kast votes on AV aren't really well reasoned. I'd like it if Tasky gave/restated a case before kast did.

[RayFrost]

I did, but I didn't remember my role for sure. Also don't understand the whole "lynch VT!!!" regardless of your thoughts on alignment.

[RayFrost]

Or do you think I'm scum based off of the case of "Ray is passive"

[RayFrost]

I fullclaimed because it's pointless to merely wait out until L-1 when it's a few days before DL.

[RayFrost]

Tasky asked the same question I did. Why did you avoid answering the first time?

[RayFrost]

Also, /in b4 quickhammer.

[RayFrost]

The above is meant to dissuade a quickhammer by pointing out the fact a hammer would be one. By saying this, I don't negate the effect.

[RayFrost]

I don't feel solid about AV-scum right now. I'll let you know if I'm still alive after the rest of the game posts.

[RayFrost]

I didn't quite word it as a question, but...

[RayFrost]

So you think that

nothing

I've said has had a solid backing behind it on logic/reasoning/etc or I'm not showing consistency?

[RayFrost]

I don't understand what you are talking about when referencing my composure.

[RayFrost]

So... I should be lynched because I won't be NK'd. I'm struck speechless by this. I seriously dunno how to reply.

[RayFrost]

Eh, I have difficulty being aggressive when in a game from the start (track record of terrible play when in games from the beginning)

[RayFrost]

However odd it may be that I forgot my role like I forgot the game, I hardly see how it's a tell on alignment. I posted my role within a minute (tbc)

[RayFrost]

So it's doubtful that I was coming up with a fakeclaim or something similar.

[RayFrost]

Because me dead changes that, rite?

[RayFrost]

Oh, wait. You just made a scumslip, amirite?

[RayFrost]

You just posited a reason behind your vote that assumes I'm town.

[RayFrost]

Excuse me, but I'm a bit busy / excited over this.

[RayFrost]

Your logic behind voting me is

scum know to kill someone else as I'm not a PR

. This means I'm not scum

by definition

.

[RayFrost]

Hdotus - I can't play well from the word go without some fuel, being in at page 1 doesn't provide.

[RayFrost]

AV, your reason for voting me in the event that I'm town is still advocating a town lynch.

[RayFrost]

You also haven't said whether you think I'm scum in the first place or provided a case for it.

[RayFrost]

Hdotus - I don't get a lot of PMs. It's easy to find something within the first ten PMs using ctrl+f.

[RayFrost]

It's a policy vote. Meaning you don't think I'm scum? Does not compute.

[RayFrost]

Leaving me alive or killing me if I'm town has

no net impact

on the scum's knowledge pool now that I've claimed.

[RayFrost]

So your logic is still faulty.

[RayFrost]

Umm... me dead mystically leaves 6 townies alive?

[RayFrost]

What is the point, then?

[RayFrost]

Going off your previous posting, you think chamber is

for sure

scum. Why are you going for possiblescum over forsure scum?

[RayFrost]

Your logic on me-townlynch having any benefit is not correct, meaning that's not a valid excuse.

[RayFrost]

Frm what I understand it's merely because I'm more likely to be lynched. This means you aren't going to put in the effort to go for who you think is really scum.

[RayFrost]

This seems like a very lazy approach to the game... or a very opportunistic one. Take your pick, but neither one shines well.

[RayFrost]

P.S.: I realized a few minutes ago (probably not for the first time) that I come alive when I'm soon to be lynched.

[RayFrost]

I think it's the relief that I don't have to worry about whether I'll look scummy or not. Easy to eulogize, so to speak.

[RayFrost]

Oh, I see, AV. You are assuming that not lynching mean = we lynch another townie.

[RayFrost]

EBWOP: not lynching me

[RayFrost]

So you aren't even going to try? What if you-town dies during the night? Your case will be lost forever.

[RayFrost]

Oh, forgot a crucial question. AV, do you have a case against me you'd like to say?

[RayFrost]

Chamber, do you feel it's telling to Hdotus' alignment in any way, or is this a quality of play issue?

[RayFrost]

Chamber, do you feel differently about 1605, or what?

[RayFrost]

I've been called out on an early claim before, now that I think about it. I was town then, too.

[RayFrost]

'sie from that, your reasoning for lynching me's a bit eeeehhhh for me. I feel the same way as you about the game sometimes, but still.

[RayFrost]

Anyway, I still dislike AH most out of everybody right now.

Vote: Antihero

.

[RayFrost]

With that, I'm gonna go to sleep. 3 AM here and I have plans tomor- today.

[RayFrost]

Oh, almost forgot my ritual of giving a list.

[RayFrost]

Town - TF, kast, space, Vi (leaning town, as I said)

[RayFrost]

Neutral - chamber, hdotus, tasky

[RayFrost]

Above list needs AV = tasky. Scum - AH. Lemme know if I forgot a player.

[RayFrost]

Closest to the left = closest to town if forced to *decide* between them.

[RayFrost]

Oh! Forgot ftf. ftf is somewhere in neutral or scum. It's swingy. He's scemutral or something.

[RayFrost]

EBWOP: the made up word should be sceumtral, not scemutral.

[RayFrost]

This is it. Bowing out for the night. Love you all, see yah when I'm back (I probably won't post for some 16+ hours, so yeah)

[RayFrost]

t'was a srs question, that all you're going to say?

[RayFrost]

Didn't say that, now did I? I said

when in a game from the start

I do worse than when replacing in as fuel from the get go is less - nothing to do with how long the game is later. Also, I've seen longer. 80+ pages.

[RayFrost]

ctd from above - I find it easier to get in gear when I have to read to catc up in a game I haven't been in as I'm doing a full read without any emotional attachment and such to previous posting (as I wasn't in the game)

[RayFrost]

(ctd) There's no "I understand what I meant" to go with being attacked as I wasn't in the game, so I can analyze people without having been in the arguments in question.

[RayFrost]

In contrast, I'm in arguments that I'm reading when in the game from the start - there's no point where I'm outside the game and can have an even semi-objective viewpoint.

[RayFrost]

So... you agreeing with my case or do you have some other tells you'd like to bring up?

[RayFrost]

To reply to the irony thing: I never said my early play was good. It doesn't shine well either. *shrug* Nothing I can do about that except do better. That said, I can still call people out on it.

[RayFrost]

Heya Fonzy, got anything to add about your reads, or has nothing new happened?

[RayFrost]

And now I'm going to watch doctor who in a few minutes. Take Care, Ladies, Gentlemen, and Nobody Mods.

[RayFrost]

I remember hearing that saying a vote's for pressure removes the pressure. Chamber, your stance on this?

[RayFrost]

Vi stole my question to fishy. I support the question.

[RayFrost]

I follow by denying the pressure meaning I make the pressure/attack but then try to defuse it by making some form of clarification or "but" or similar?

[RayFrost]

Few things wrong here. 1) Chamber said lurker pressure, not a policy lynch. 2) I presented a case for the AH lynch. 3) Chamber's not the only one.

[RayFrost]

Gotcha. Not going to argue with you on that: my play was poor.

[RayFrost]

Fonzy,

finish reading the thread before posting, please

. Also explain why you think Hdotus/Me/Fishy/Ah/Kast are scum if you don't mind.

[RayFrost]

I'd also be fine with links to previous posting that explains each.

[RayFrost]

Need to clarify: the fact I

didn't flake

means I'm scummy where, if I had flaked, I would get a bye? I don't see how my flaking or not flaking (ctd)

[RayFrost]

would have an impact on how scummy my play is. My play since I came back having a null impact for your read still feels off to me. (ctd)

[RayFrost]

If you would be willing to give my play before then a bye, that means it was not extremely scummy from your PoV (ctd)

[RayFrost]

yet you still find it to be

the most scummy thing in the game

, unless you are voting for some other reason, as you said my recent play is null.

[RayFrost]

Yeah. >.< Reading it while ignoring kast's posts makes it obvious, sorry 'bout that.

[RayFrost]

Definitely think there should be an extension

- Really don't get Hdotus' vote on TF. Explanation please.

[RayFrost]

I saw that but thought it only applied to this post as he asked a question there.

[RayFrost]

An extension of a couple days past replacement will hardly harm the game.

[RayFrost]

Unvote

as per Vi's mention of it being L-1 (didn't notice myself) and not wanting "accidental" hammer etc.

[RayFrost]

Mod: if the deadline isn't moved, please move my vote to AH as well

[RayFrost]

Better a lynch on who I think is scum than a no lynch.

[RayFrost]

I felt like hdotus was questioning my would-be hammer, so I stated the alrdy obv.

[RayFrost]

Probably futile but... reasoning?

[RayFrost]

WW55 - None of your quoted posts are questions to me. Concentrate and try again.

[RayFrost]

The first was actually Hdotus answering a question

I asked him

. The second wasn't even directed at me.

[RayFrost]

If I am getting the order right... you don't think I'm scum anymore?

[RayFrost]

I'd also like clarification as to how TF = FtF

[RayFrost]

Well, that makes more sense. What about AH/Kast puts them so high up? Chamber I prob understand on my own.

[RayFrost]

That would make it easier, probably.

[RayFrost]

Or at least post some cliffnotes for the conclusion.

[RayFrost]

I wanted those little notes that surround the conclusion - brief summary of the points on everybody rather than merely showing the tally.

[RayFrost]

... or we should lynch obvscum in werewolf.

[RayFrost]

Just saying.

[RayFrost]

Oh, my vote's not on WW right now.

Vote: Werewolf

[RayFrost]

"Vi did x, which is superscummy" "vote: kast" ... I must be missing something.

[RayFrost]

I'd like to point out how worthless the votes on kast/Vi/AV are. Move them to one of my or WW's wagon.

[RayFrost]

I'd also like to point out the extreme lack of WW in this thread.

Mod: prod WW? Also, chance of extension for ftf replace?

[RayFrost]

I'm not following. I'm currently in the lead to be lynched, so why would I not promote people voting ww?

[RayFrost]

My second post there is a rather obvious "omgww's scummy, ohbtw can we have an extension?" post. Nulltell.

[RayFrost]

The first one is "make use of your damn votes" - at most a minor town tell, not something "scum won't say"

[RayFrost]

Regardless of whether I'm town or scum, WW-PR = Mylynch.

[RayFrost]

... I just realized that I have a habit of telling people their reasoning for finding me town is wrong. I think I should work on that.

[RayFrost]

I think that's a slight misunderstanding of chamber, but.... :/

[RayFrost]

WW

is

AH. Replacement.

[RayFrost]

Don't like chamber's "can I hammer?" post, though the hammer itself would've been fine.