Mini 1062 - The Lies of Locke Lamora (game over!)

[ThAdmiral]

that wouldnt really confirm anything...
the only time i've seen that ability, it was a scum ability, in mini 1000.

Same. I've only ever seen that ability as scum as well.

[Furcolow]

you agree with me, admiral, but do you believe his claim?
if you believe it, what alignment do you believe he has?

[ThAdmiral]

Well the ability would be easy to prove so I believe that.
As for alignment...I'm not sure. It's certainly one of the claims I am most suspicious of.
@ coach: can you explain the flavour for the ability?

[Furcolow]

he is probably capa raza

[ThAdmiral]

he is probably capa raza

Agreed, but I don't like the wishy-washy "it's something a powerful person could do, right". I would like his ability explained.

[Coach Travis]

There really isn't that much flavor for it. Basically, I'm more powerful and influential than any in Camorr except Duke Nicovante, but among thieves I'm the absolute most powerful, so anything I say goes.

Also, I don't think capa raza would have that ability, because remember, this game takes place during the action, so he wouldn't be in power at the start of the game. He probably is in this game, but more likely as the Grey King, which is why I said my power should make it obvious I'm not lying about my identity.

[Furcolow]

ok, nice job deterring on that response, coach, but who are you suspicious of and wanting to lynch?

[Coach Travis]

Honestly, at this point in the game I have reasons to suspect the majority of the players still alive. In fact, you and DDD are probably the only two I can say I'm confident are town aligned at this point. Everyone else I either find scummy(Parama, jenni), or am unsure but certainly suspicious of(ThAdmiral, don_johnson). I don't think I'd be willing to lynch dj though, as he looks far less scummy than Skyquiem. So right now, the three I'd be most willing to lynch are ThAdmiral, jenni, and Parama. I'd be happy lynching either of them.

[Parama]

Well, after that disaster I'll definitely need to re-think things. Still don't like Skyquiem or jenni, but I definitely don't want to rush things again, only to have someone lynched while I'm sleeping. Only thing I can say for sure:Parama is town. What he did was such an obvious scummy thing, there's no way scum would do it.

What changed since this, Coach?

[Furcolow]

I would like people to give some reads
I have done so already

[Coach Travis]

Well, after that disaster I'll definitely need to re-think things. Still don't like Skyquiem or jenni, but I definitely don't want to rush things again, only to have someone lynched while I'm sleeping. Only thing I can say for sure:Parama is town. What he did was such an obvious scummy thing, there's no way scum would do it.

What changed since this, Coach?

I already explained it before:Your play today has still been scummy, don't like the tunneling and quick voting, and I realized that ruling out a suspect because of a dumb play isn't good thinking at all.

[Furcolow]

give us some reads coach

[Coach Travis]

I've basically said what I think of everyone at this point, but here it goes:

DDD:I believe he's town. Out of everyone alive he's been the best player throughout making good cases and at least trying to make people cut out their awful play so we can get more serious in a critical time. I'm very certain he's town.

Furcolow:Very unpredictable, but I actually think he's been helpful in his own way, and has actually been a bit less jumpy in day 3. Overall, he seems over eager but I feel he's trying his best to help the town.

don_johnson:This one is very tricky, because I found Skyquiem scummy, but he himself has done a solid job scum hunting so far and hasn't looked suspicious at all. The only reason I even have doubts about his because of Skyquiem, and the fact that it's hard to believe two particular people I suspect would be working together.

jenniwren:I've made it clear what I thought about her hammer on palmer, and everything I said stands. She's also been way over defensive when people have pressured her about this, which also makes me concerned. As I said before, it's really hard to think she'd be working with Parama, and if only one of them is scum it's hard to determine who, but I still find her scummy.

Parama:Again, I've addressed this a lot, but after thinking some more his hammer does look as bad as jenni's, but for different reasons. Plus, his quick voting today made me uncomfortable and overall he too has seemed over defensive.

ThAdmiral:Here's where things get interesting, because I previously liked him, but after day 2 and looking back on things, I know I had to have been wrong about some people, and right now he appears to be one of them. He's been really blending in a lot, not adding much of his own content, plus a lot of his posts seem forced, and I didn't realize before I missed a case of him doing this on day one(which DDD pointed out to me). So yeah, I now believe he's scum and probably our best lynch because deciding between jenni and Parama is difficult.

[ThAdmiral]

Here are my reads:

Furculow: sometimes annoying, and can get carried away, but I believe he is town. He comes across as genuine and has always provided info on what his reads are, etc. Do not want to lynch.

Don-johnson: Skyquiem was one of the more suspicious players and dj hasn't exactly set the world on fire. Definitely a potential scum and I would be happy to lynch him, but probably not today.

Jenniwren: I think much has been made of her hammer on palmer, I think too much. Her defensiveness leaves something to be desired but she seems like the type that would react like that regardless of whether she was scum or town. For now I would not want to lynch her but she needs to claim pronto or that will change.

DDD: seems very coldly logical - I understand his reasoning for a coach lynch, but I don't necessarily agree with it. Has never really pinged my scumdar throughout the game. Do not want to lynch.

Coach: Another player that hadn't ever really pinged my scumdar until his claim, which he is trying to use to prove he is town aligned even though it doesn't. Would be ok with his lynch but I believe there are better targets...

Parama: ...such as this guy. The hammer was ultra-scummy imo, plus you've got the constant mud-slinging today. Regardless of this, however, there's the fact that when he was voting jenni

one of them had to be scum

(if they were both town scum would have jumped on and wagoned jenni to death). I wasn't sure which one was scum until he switched his vote to me - now I know it is him (once again if he was town scum would have jumped on and wagoned me to death). Obviously I am happy to see him lynched, so...

vote: parama

[Parama]

And in this corner, we have ThAdmiral doing exactly what Coach did in his last post, except this time ThAdmiral is just trying to look good for it, whereas Coach obviously put actual thought into his reads.

ThAdmiral: Your reason for voting me could just be that last part, because obviously assuming 3 scum it's gotta be bias.
Also I know and have known that both you and jenni are scum, why do you think I've been doing all this mud slinging?

[don_johnson]

mod: votecount?

i think we should be holding off with votes until jenni claims. i think thad or parama is the lynch today barring something game-changing from jenni. let coach use his ability even though it confirms jack shit. coach, did you say it was a one-time thing?

[jenniwren]

Everyone: Obviously no one is going to respond to my question about how things would be different if the request had been for full claims instead of name claims?

Basically, I have held off on making my claim because I wanted to see how people would react to my not claiming (great response from Furc, who has no reason to lynch me other than a) he doesn't like reading a lot and b) I haven't claimed...) and to see what information could be gained from discussion in the interim.

Also, I am full claiming now for a few reasons:
a) I was roleblocked last night, which means scum already know I have a night action and will either roleblock me or kill me tonight, so there is a pretty good chance my ability is useless anyway;
b) I want to share what I can before night in case they do kill me tonight. I also think that if town has the little bit of extra information I do that maybe we can work together better to figure it all out because I've taken it as far as I can on my own.
c) For me, nameclaiming is essentially the equivalent of full claiming anyway.

I'm Dona Angiavesta Vorchenza, the Spider, Head of the Midnighters, and Town Jailkeeper.

1.

I am the

Spider

, head of Don Nicovante’s secret police force, the Midnighters, and I am immune to investigations of identity (in keeping with flavor). I live in the Amberglass Tower. Each day I can name someone to be brought in for questioning at night, and that person will be jailed overnight.

At first, I thought the questioning role worked like a cop ability, with an answer provided by the mod, but learned on D2 that the answers to my questions are really provided by the person I question and not the mod.

Therefore, any answer I receive is

unreliable

. [/b]

2.

On N1, I questioned Parama and asked him if he was a loyal citizen of Camorr. He said he was, but it's fairly obvious that I didn't believe him due to the unreliability of the questioning process and his behavior since N1.

There are several reasons I think Parama is scum (I've laid out the case before); one of the most compelling is that his vote was on me for over a day, and everyone else posted and had NOT voted for me, which made it look like he was trying to get a town to hop on my wagon so his buddies could finish me off. If he were town, there would be no reason for the three of them to wait to cast the damning three votes on me, thus ending the game in their favor. (I've already written all of this theory up, though, so you can read it in my ISO.)

3.

On N2, I tried to bring Charter in for questioning, but was roleblocked. Because of the unreliability of the question/answer situation, I was going to ask him who he thought was scum in hopes his answers would at least give me a more substantial read on him than my first question had given me on Parama.

4.

I know that I was roleblocked by scum on N2, as the chance of there being more than two town blockers (as Palmer and I both hold/held a roleblocking position) in a mini is slim to none.

5.

Whoever the scum RB is (can’t be Parama as he was in jail on N1), I’m pretty sure they blocked Michel on N1 as there was no vig kill. This would also give the scum motivation to kill him on N2, as they would know they had successfully blocked him and would therefore know that he HAD a night action and had to be a PR.

I’m also sure the scum figured out on D2 that I had the PR that messed up Parama’s night on N1 based on my repeated comments about Parama’s demand that the PR reveal themselves, and that this is why I was blocked on N2.

*****

Basically, I'm skeptical of DDD's claim because of my own role, and I still think Parama is very suspicious because of his play (also because he's lying about "knowing" I am scum, because I'm not), and CT has been consistently waffling (among other things) throughout the game. At any rate, I'm definitely not ready to place a vote yet.

Flavorwise, what we know about scum is that they most likely live Raven's Reach and use Wraithstones. Other than that, I think they are hiding behind fakeclaims.

One last thing: CT, why did you not use your extra vote on Palmer when it looked like it would be a no-lynch unless I hammered? You were on the wagon, so presumably you believed he was scum, so you shouldn't have had any reservations about making sure he was lynched, and no one would have known, right?

[Parama]

Okay now jenni is town because I was pretty damn sure that action on me was from town.
ThAdmiral's still scummy scum though, can we kill him?

[Parama]

Jenni, why did you jailkeep me N1?

[Coach Travis]

let coach use his ability even though it confirms jack shit. coach, did you say it was a one-time thing?

Yes, I did, and I re-read the PM and have confirmed that this is the case.

One last thing: CT, why did you not use your extra vote on Palmer when it looked like it would be a no-lynch unless I hammered? You were on the wagon, so presumably you believed he was scum, so you shouldn't have had any reservations about making sure he was lynched, and no one would have known, right?

I never even considered it, actually. I figured that because it was day one and most people here understand the importance of making sure there is a lynch, that someone would step in right near deadline to ensure it went through, and I was obviously correct. But the main reason is I figured there would be a more critical situation later on where it would better serve us. I was hoping I could survive as long as possible, so I could use it late in the game.

Also, interesting claim, my only problem is it seems like such a role would really only work for roleblocking, which we already had, so that's strange. I do still think one of jenni or Parama is scum and Parama's insistence that the player targeting him is town even though it could be a scum roleblocking him makes me think he is in fact the scum in this situation, because I don't think a townie would be that quick to assume they were roleblocked by a teammate.

[Parama]

I thought the action was coming from a pro-town player due to flavor involved.

[jenniwren]

Parama

I jailkept you because I thought you were scummy, and I wanted to question you.

CT

1) Yeah, NOW do you understand one of the reasons why I thought Palmer was full of crap when he was talking about his role?

2) Jailkeeper isn't just a roleblocker...it's also a protective role. I used it as a roleblocker, but I could have kept someone I thought was in danger of being killed, too. My role also has an investigative quality, unreliable as that is (and now useless, even if I'm not roleblocked or killed tonight). On N1, I didn't have a solid enough read on someone to protect, and on N2, I wanted to keep Charter because he a) hadn't gotten a chance to talk yet (go back and read what I was going to ask him), and b) I thought Michel was coming off a little scummy on D2.

Everyone

I'm also leaning toward a two-man scum team right now based on voting patterns, and if I'm right, then either Ben was scum or there is a third-party. With CT's ability, be careful who you vote for until we're ready for a lynch, though.

[Locke Lamora]

"'Steals too much,' the Eyeless Priest mused. 'Steals too much. Of all the complaints I never thought I'd hear from a man who trains little thieves for a living.'
'Laugh now,' the Thiefmaker said, 'here's the kicker.'"
Prologue - The Boy Who Stole Too Much

Vote Count 13!

ThAdmiral - 1 (Parama)
Coach Travis - 1 (Debonair Danny DiPietro)
Parama - 1 (ThAdmiral)

Not voting - 4 (Coach Travis, don_johnson, jenniwren, Furcolow)

With 7 'alive', it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline is Tuesday, November 9th at 9:00AM GMT, which is just under 72 hours away.

Debonair Danny DiPietro has been prodded.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Jenni is town.

Means that if there's a three person scum team I'm reading either furcolow or skyquiem/DJ wrong. On the flip side I can't imagine them as scum together which makes my CT hypothesis even more likely; with Param/ThAdmiral on each side, furcolow/DJ on the each side and CT binding either team together. I guess the alternate hypothesis would be a two person scum team as jenni suggests, but if that's the case then scum would have to be fairly powerful and again CT's claimed ability seems like the exact sort of thing that would help balance things for scum. Still thinking he's the best choice for the day.

[Furcolow]

I'm here. I have to catch up, but I have company. I doubt I will really have a lot to say about the claim I skimmed Jenni made. It looks fabricated at a glance.