Mini 1042 - Skillville - GAME OVER!

[Reckamonic]

I'm sorry we haven't posted, Reck has been quite sick (I suspect mononucleosis).
We'll post once he's not quite as fried.
Or I'll post alone before getting prodded

Whichever happens first

[Reckamonic]

Sorry for the delay guys. Half of the hydra has been bedridden for two days and hasn't got off his ass to do anything about it, much to the other half's chagrin. >>

We're not going to apologize for tunneling so hard on DH. We still hold that he was incredibly scummy, and he completely asked for that lynch. Nikanor's immediate reversal on us raises our four eyebrows and makes us doubt the mason claim a bit. With a dead cop, it's very easy to claim mason.

Definitely want to see more from Nikanor, Nobody Special, and Hito today.

We agree, but could you not add a little content to this post? Where do your scumreads lie?

Nobody Special playing lazy like he is further worries us. He's playing like he's confirmed town and doesn't have a care in the world, when in fact, he's in no way, shape, or form confirmed. We're starting to consider the validity of lynching the claimed masons today, because if we don't lynch them today and they actually ARE lying, that puts us in an impossible scenario tomorrow - 2 claimed masons, with 6 alive? That's WIFOM-city.

@hitogoroshi: You say it's scummy we were pushing for DH's lynch first - of course we were, he was our #1 scumread.

[vollkan]

It's a pressure vote. I'm not saying lynchworthy.

Yes, I caught up on the game.

Good. Then who do you think is scum?

Overall, not quite sure what to make of Reckamonic. I agree that DH looked scummy, so I can't hold that tunneling against him. Early horror pushing is good. But early horror pushing without voting (Reck only switched at deadline) could come from scum pretty easily.

When you say "Early horror pushing is good" do you mean that it's inherently good because it was on Horror, or that it was actually "good" (ie. strong arguments)?

Reason I ask is that buddying tends to take one of two forms:
a) Passive support for a wagon (ie. expressing some weak arguments and maybe voting but doing nothing to truly move the lynch along)
b) Over-the-top bloodlust attacking on every little point (to make sure that the buddy gets the most credit for the flip)

I don't think there is anything scummy about pushing a wagon with good reasons but not voting.

[Zachrulez]

Definitely want to see more from Nikanor, Nobody Special, and Hito today.

We agree, but could you not add a little content to this post? Where do your scumreads lie?

I'm most interested in these 3. Hito suspicions carry over from yesterday and DH's flip doesn't change anything in that regard.

The claimed masons are starting to nag at me because of their lack of activity, and the lack of activity of their predecessors. The claims are actually very easy to ride through many day phases, and lynching them carries the stigma of lynching claimed masons.

And that's pretty much where I'm at, mulling over whether I think it's more likely that Hito is scum with someone else, or if the claimed masons themselves are.

[Untrod Tripod]

Masons clear [nik] & [NS]

Nobody Special playing lazy like he is further worries us. He's playing like he's confirmed town and doesn't have a care in the world, when in fact, he's in no way, shape, or form confirmed.

So, I'm scum when I point this out earlier, but now it's just something you and Zach agree with me on?

[Nobody Special]

The player I'm voting for is scummy. They keep promising content, "claiming" illnes for one head, while both heads are posting up a storm all over the board.

....Except in here.


My vote on Reckamonic stays.

[Reckamonic]

Hi. Reck here.

Go fuck yourself NS. I've been basically dying since Tuesday night. I'm sitting at my second trip to the doctors to figure out what's wrong with me. I don't want to hear your shit right now. Fuck off.

[Nobody Special]

While I bear you no ill will as a person, Will, I am just noting activity relative to this game. No need to take it personally.

[Skill006]

First Vote Count for Day 3:

Reckamonic (1) – Nobody Special

Not Voting: Alduskkel, hitogoroshi, Nikanor, Reckamonic, Untrod Tripod, vollkan, Zachrulez

Deadline is Monday, November 7 10:00 pm CST.
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

[Reckamonic]

Frankly it doesn't require brain usage to post in random thread that talk of silly stuff, unlike a mafia game.
Reck would be able to post, but his ability to concentrate is abismal at the moment. <--- Dram

[vollkan]

Masons clear [nik] & [NS]

Nobody Special playing lazy like he is further worries us. He's playing like he's confirmed town and doesn't have a care in the world, when in fact, he's in no way, shape, or form confirmed.

So, I'm scum when I point this out earlier, but now it's just something you and Zach agree with me on?

This is a good point.

Nothing about the mason claim's believability has changed since yesterday, and yet we go from them being "cleared" (where, I note, said clearing was conducive to DH's lynch) to them being suspect.

The same can also be said for Zach:

Niiiiiiice jab at the mason claim. Is there any reason you feel the need to dispute it? (If you could find even a handful of games out of thousands where a scum team fake claims masons as a gambit I would be surprised.)

[Zachrulez]

My confidence in the mason claim starts to fall the longer we go without lynching scum, and the longer they go without showing any interest in the game, most particularly because if they are masons, they're in the best position to find scum and seem to be the least interested in actually doing it.

Also, setup based theory changes my opinion as well. The lack of a kill seems to indicate that something stopped the kill. The existence of a role capable of stopping a kill in a game that's already had a cop flip makes me a lot more skeptical about a mason claim. (I'm not sure how likely it is that scum would actually forgo their kill at this point in the game.)

If it was the case that we're looking at Cop+doc(or some variation)+masons does that kind of setup seem workable? Giving it more thought, I'm not sure how believable I find the masons being paired with a cop. (Cleared townies plus investigations)

I'm thinking that a massclaim might give us a pretty good idea of what's going on. (And if there are going to be pr claims, I'd rather not deal with them in mylo or lylo.)

[vollkan]

My confidence in the mason claim starts to fall the longer we go without lynching scum, and the longer they go without showing any interest in the game, most particularly because if they are masons, they're in the best position to find scum and seem to be the least interested in actually doing it.

Also, setup based theory changes my opinion as well. The lack of a kill seems to indicate that something stopped the kill. The existence of a role capable of stopping a kill in a game that's already had a cop flip makes me a lot more skeptical about a mason claim. (I'm not sure how likely it is that scum would actually forgo their kill at this point in the game.)

If it was the case that we're looking at Cop+doc(or some variation)+masons does that kind of setup seem workable? Giving it more thought, I'm not sure how believable I find the masons being paired with a cop. (Cleared townies plus investigations)

I'm thinking that a massclaim might give us a pretty good idea of what's going on. (And if there are going to be pr claims, I'd rather not deal with them in mylo or lylo.)

Masons + Cop + other role is not unbalanced, especially given that we know that the scum had a godfather (In games with cops, godfathers are normally inv-immune)

[Zachrulez]

I'm not sure about that. Once you get the godfather out of the way, having a cop able to clear townies with masons already in the game seems pretty powerful to me. (Plus the other scum are likely not inv-immune)

[Alduskkel]

Meh. Scum could be PR heavy, e.g. a Roleblocker and/or a Role Cop to name some common ones. So a mass claim that revealed, say, a Doctor, would just indicate that either the Masons or the Doctor are lying, the Mafia is PR heavy, or the setup is unbalanced. In other words, it wouldn't prove anything.

vollkan meta basically clears him of my suspicions. In 2 games he subtracted points only once, so obviously it is not common for him to do it.

I will plan on ISOing the living players, possibly skipping the claimed Masons.

[hitogoroshi]

@hitogoroshi: You say it's scummy we were pushing for DH's lynch first - of course we were, he was our #1 scumread.

Didn't say it was scummy, just that it made the horror pressure less townie. I wasn't saying by any stretch that it was something only scum would do - just that it made a townie looking thing (horror pressure) look a little more possibly scum because of how it was done. I still think it looks more townish than scummish on the whole. Make sense?

When you say "Early horror pushing is good" do you mean that it's inherently good because it was on Horror, or that it was actually "good" (ie. strong arguments)?

Reason I ask is that buddying tends to take one of two forms:
a) Passive support for a wagon (ie. expressing some weak arguments and maybe voting but doing nothing to truly move the lynch along)
b) Over-the-top bloodlust attacking on every little point (to make sure that the buddy gets the most credit for the flip)

I don't think there is anything scummy about pushing a wagon with good reasons but not voting.

It was inherently good for being on horror and good arguments. The way it took place lowered the "inherently good" part but they were still good arguments.

And that's pretty much where I'm at, mulling over whether I think it's more likely that Hito is scum with someone else, or if the claimed masons themselves are.

This makes me think a little. I know I'm town. Zach, if you similarly knew I was town, what would you put the odds at for the mason's fakeclaiming?

[vollkan]

I'm not sure about that. Once you get the godfather out of the way, having a cop able to clear townies with masons already in the game seems pretty powerful to me. (Plus the other scum are likely not inv-immune)

It's powerful, but it's not unbalanced. You can't say "After X happens, the game becomes unbalanced..." because it ignores the fact that the mod designs the game to be balanced at N0.

[Zachrulez]

And that's pretty much where I'm at, mulling over whether I think it's more likely that Hito is scum with someone else, or if the claimed masons themselves are.

This makes me think a little. I know I'm town. Zach, if you similarly knew I was town, what would you put the odds at for the mason's fakeclaiming?

It would rise. After my suspicions of you, my suspect pool outside the mason claims gets significantly smaller. (I'm left with Untrod who I find suspicious, and everyone else, who I have weak to solid town reads on.) I would find it hard to envision a scumteam outside the claimed masonry if you weren't scum.

[Zachrulez]

vollkan meta basically clears him of my suspicions. In 2 games he subtracted points only once, so obviously it is not common for him to do it.

Just read this. How does this make him more likely to be town? As far as I can see the only observation you've made is that it's not common for him to subtract points. (Not the implied one that he only does it as town, which 2 games of meta won't even come close to telling you.)

This statement is unacceptable given the fact that you found his "inconsistencies" so scummy yesterday that you voted him over the major wagons, a position that made your stance on those major wagons unclear.

[vollkan]

vollkan meta basically clears him of my suspicions. In 2 games he subtracted points only once, so obviously it is not common for him to do it.

Just read this. How does this make him more likely to be town? As far as I can see the only observation you've made is that it's not common for him to subtract points. (Not the implied one that he only does it as town, which 2 games of meta won't even come close to telling you.)

This statement is unacceptable given the fact that you found his "inconsistencies" so scummy yesterday that you voted him over the major wagons, a position that made your stance on those major wagons unclear.

@Aldusskel: I think I know what you mean here, but please answer this

[Zachrulez]

Mod: Everyone besides myself and Vollkan is due for a prod

[hitogoroshi]

Preemptive prod dodge. Still here, still busy in life (I have math tests thursday and friday :/) and in other games (YOU KNOW THE ONE I MEAN).

How do we feel about lynching a claimed mason? I feel super-skeevy doing it but its not like much is happening with their confirmed town status and it would end the WIFOM before LYLO. On the other hand, I can't think of a single time ever I've seen scum fakeclaim mason. Someone who was there: what was the pressure looking like on Mae/Scott? Was there a feeling of "called the scumteam" that could have driven them to desperation?

[Zachrulez]

Preemptive prod dodge. Still here, still busy in life (I have math tests thursday and friday :/) and in other games (YOU KNOW THE ONE I MEAN).

How do we feel about lynching a claimed mason? I feel super-skeevy doing it but its not like much is happening with their confirmed town status and it would end the WIFOM before LYLO. On the other hand, I can't think of a single time ever I've seen scum fakeclaim mason. Someone who was there: what was the pressure looking like on Mae/Scott? Was there a feeling of "called the scumteam" that could have driven them to desperation?

Both major wagons were on them on d2 when Scott claimed.

[Zachrulez]

Also I know you're busy Hito, but it would still be nice if you could devote some time to this game.

[Zachrulez]

Reading from page 18 will give a good perspective on the events leading up to the mason claims.