Mini 1062 - The Lies of Locke Lamora (game over!)

[jenniwren]

I haven’t technically spelled out all of the things I’ve accused Parama in an actual case yet, but here are the points I have raised about him so far. (I tried to be concise, but there are a lot of points.) In a sentence: Parama has acted solely with scum-motivation in this game.

1.Fence-sitting and BS: ISO 17;
2.Massive amounts of complaints about pace of the game in ISOs 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, and 11, yet does nothing to remedy that (semi-active lurking);
3.Contradicts himself about the usefulness of meta-defenses; see my points in my ISO 20 (second point under heading “Parama”) and 21 (Point 3). Note: he calls me a moron for pointing this out;
4.Creates a bogus case on me, saying I am scum for explaining why I hammered someone who was accusing me of not really thinking he was scum;
5.Tried to out a PR first thing on D2;
6.Continues to say that his only case on me is that I hammered “badly” but in ISO 49 says that he’s still going by his list from ISO 17;
7.When I point out all the times he has accused me of being scum, he says I’m misrepping him and that his only case on me is the Palmer hammer. (Which came WELL after his ISO 17, which he is “sticking to.”);

8.His hammer on Rude? You know, the one he made before Rude could claim, a week before the end of the day, which resulted in the immediate death of one confirmed town and one assumed town and then a NK of a confirmed town? Yeah. And then he has the audacity to come back on D3 and say throw it in my face that his hammer was “good” and mine was “bad” (ISO 82)? (I’m saying it was a scum gambit meant for exactly that purpose, though it also made CT and probably others think he was obv-town because scum wouldn’t do something that horrible.)

9.I'm still alive. He will say this is because I'm scum; but since I know that I'm NOT, that means that if he isn't scum, the scum team has neglected to vote for me and win the game in the full day and a half that his vote has been sitting on me and would therefore be the stupidest scum team on earth, which they aren't (Parama just got impatient waiting for a townie to vote for me and jumped the gun.). This means he is scum and he and his buddies just need one townie to vote for me, and then they will both vote for me as well, thus ending the game.

[ThAdmiral]

Thats pretty fucking convincing actually. I am officially in favor of a parama lynch.

[Parama]

^And you're scum with jenni, so I care?

[Parama]

1.Fence-sitting and BS: ISO 17;

That was me trying to make sense of the game.

2.Massive amounts of complaints about pace of the game in ISOs 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, and 11, yet does nothing to remedy that (semi-active lurking);

Um... hello, ISO 17? You just mentioned it... Obviously I'm active lurking when I make posts like that.

3.Contradicts himself about the usefulness of meta-defenses; see my points in my ISO 20 (second point under heading “Parama”) and 21 (Point 3). Note: he calls me a moron for pointing this out;

Like I said, that's not a meta defense because that really doesn't help my case at all.

4.Creates a bogus case on me, saying I am scum for explaining why I hammered someone who was accusing me of not really thinking he was scum;

It's not bogus if I believe it~

5.Tried to out a PR first thing on D2;

Because maybe important things happened N1 that I needed to know about

6.Continues to say that his only case on me is that I hammered “badly” but in ISO 49 says that he’s still going by his list from ISO 17;

Um... yes, and yes. How is this scummy?

7.When I point out all the times he has accused me of being scum, he says I’m misrepping him and that his only case on me is the Palmer hammer. (Which came WELL after his ISO 17, which he is “sticking to.”);

Accusations of scum =/= my case.
I took back a lot of those earlier, if you didn't notice.

8.His hammer on Rude? You know, the one he made before Rude could claim, a week before the end of the day, which resulted in the immediate death of one confirmed town and one assumed town and then a NK of a confirmed town? Yeah. And then he has the audacity to come back on D3 and say throw it in my face that his hammer was “good” and mine was “bad” (ISO 82)? (I’m saying it was a scum gambit meant for exactly that purpose, though it also made CT and probably others think he was obv-town because scum wouldn’t do something that horrible.)

OKAY, THIS is just plain BS. I THOUGHT RUDE WAS SCUM. I DON'T NEED SCUM TO CLAIM.
OBVIOUSLY I knew 2 players would die when I hammered, right?
And yes, my hammer's how a hammer should be done. Short and sweet.
Lol, calling it a scum gambit.

9.I'm still alive. He will say this is because I'm scum; but since I know that I'm NOT, that means that if he isn't scum, the scum team has neglected to vote for me and win the game in the full day and a half that his vote has been sitting on me and would therefore be the stupidest scum team on earth, which they aren't (Parama just got impatient waiting for a townie to vote for me and jumped the gun.). This means he is scum and he and his buddies just need one townie to vote for me, and then they will both vote for me as well, thus ending the game.

This is the only part of your case that really matters because you're biased.
It's okay, I'm biased too. Why haven't you realized that I'm not going to let up SPECIFICALLY because of this logic?

So yeah here's why your case is bad and you should feel bad and just go die, scum.

[Parama]

I've been assuming that a2rudeboy's role triggered whatever happened to BM.

And yes, BM's town.

Flavor pretty much tells you that.

oh, yeah, blame flavor
i didnt fucking know he was town
he was janitored
i am glad you can be so fucking sure of it
we really need to lynch parama

*is a member of the Gentlemen Bastards and as such assumes all Gentlemen Bastards characters are town*

I don't know a thing about the flavor but I'm assuming this from what someone said earlier.

[ThAdmiral]

I've been assuming that a2rudeboy's role triggered whatever happened to BM.

And yes, BM's town.

Flavor pretty much tells you that.

oh, yeah, blame flavor
i didnt fucking know he was town
he was janitored
i am glad you can be so fucking sure of it
we really need to lynch parama

*is a member of the Gentlemen Bastards and as such assumes all Gentlemen Bastards characters are town*

I don't know a thing about the flavor but I'm assuming this from what someone said earlier.

Yeah, I think its safe to say the gentleman bastards are town. Jean Tannen was Locke's right hand man in the book so I don't see any way he could be scum.

Wait, are you saying

you

are a gentleman bastard? This changes things.

[jenniwren]

Parama

(PbP response, sans quote wall for the sake of brevity)

1. And it was a lot of fence-sitting BS.
2. You

were

up until that point, well into the game.
3. You can believe a lot of things, like the moon is made of green cheese, but that doesn't make it true or valid.
4. Outing a PR won't help you know those "important things," and you would have potentially outed a PR, which ISN'T good for town.
5. It's scummy because you accuse me of misrepping you when I point out that you've been trying to build a case on me from early on D1, and you SAY your whole case on me is the hammer, but you also say you are standing by your scum list made WELL before the hammer ever happened, which is a contradiction.
6. How can you make accusations without a case? Otherwise you're making arbitrary lists with no evidence, and you need evidence to support a lynch.
7. Like I said before...you can "think" something is true all you want, but that doesn't mean you're right. You cut off town communication in the middle of the day because you "thought" you were right? You were obviously wrong, and you still can't recognize you might be wrong about other people, too? Your hammer was full of scum intent, from the ending of town talk to the fact that you are still coming back and throwing it in my face. You should have waited for him to claim, and your hammer, for all it's brevity, was a HORRIBLE move for town.
8. There's no bias in this...I'm not scum. I KNOW I'm not scum, and I KNOW you have been making terrible accusations about me from D1. I also KNOW you made a terrible hammer on Rude because you "thought" he was scum. If you aren't scum, I would be lynched already. Every other player has been online since you voted for me on THURSDAY, and none of them have voted. This isn't bias...this is fact.

_____
YOUR "case" is bad because the only reason I made a long post when I hammered Palmer was because he kept saying things like he didn't think I believed he was scum, and that if I hammered him, then I was scum. I wanted him to know exactly why I was voting for him, and that I believed he was scum. Maybe in his next game he won't make the same mistakes as town OR scum. There isn't anything wrong with explaining to someone why you vote for them.
_____

I'll humor you for a moment and pretend you're not scum. I'm NOT scum, so if you're also not scum, that would mean BM would have

had

to have been scum, because if you aren't scum, then the ONLY reason I wouldn't have been lynched by now is if there are only two remaining scum in the game. They obviously need a town member to hit two votes so that they can finish the job...with your "town" vote on me, all they need is for one other person to be convinced before they can achieve their goal.

If you are town, you need to unvote me and reconsider this game and look for real scum. We're in LYLO, and you've already screwed up once because you were so sure you were right, so you should probably use some caution now.

[Parama]

Okay. Let's use some caution.

unvote, vote: ThAdmiral

This is also a vote on scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm giving Don one more day to get his read done and whether or not it gets done I'm taking the training wheels off because what's going on is far too dangerous to the town for me to sit on the sidelines any more.

[Coach Travis]

Same here. I won't rush him to post something, but I'd prefer to hear what he has to say before doing anything potentially risky. With that being said, I do have a bit of an idea of who I'd prefer to vote next, but I'll still take more time to consider it.

[don_johnson]

ok. can't finish my read until tomorrow night at the earliest. i would prefer if you guys wait. ddd: if you have something to post then do it. wait for me to vote, but no need to stifle

all

conversation. if i can find an hour to catch up tomorrow night i will, otherwise monday morning for sure. trick or treating is going to take precedence. thanks.

[Furcolow]

unvote

we need to name claim imo
i have already done so

[Parama]

I am

Bug

of the Gentlemen Bastards.
Let's do this popcorn style: jenni claims next.

[Furcolow]

I am Dona Sofia Salvara, the bewitching beauty!
I am basically a townie, but I have a passive ability

All I ask of you as a town is your vote. I will not fail you, friends. From my mansion in Alcegrante I will lead you to glory!

Parama/Skyquiem/Palmertrou are the scumteam
My win condition is for Camorr

Parama, dude, you are being classless. Your counter-push is a joke. Just give up, bro.

[ThAdmiral]

Well since Jenni has disappeared.

I am Galdo Sanza.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

First thing first, I'm tempted to try and lynch Furcolow just because I don't think I could bear losing to him if he's scum. But the last time I did that I lynched bv310 and he was town and I handed scum a too easy victory so I'm resisting the temptation but ye gods it would feel good.

As dumb as this day has been so far there are some useful connections I think we can draw (or more properly rule out). I don't think Parama can be scum with either ThAdmiral or Jenni; the back and forths don't make much sense I think. Conversely, despite his activity I don't think we can rule Furcolow out of any pairing because I think he knows he can get away with whatever the hell he wants to do and have it just written off. Anyways, I'm having a tough time coming up with a credible scum team for Parama, it would have to be Coach Travis as his first partner and either Furcolow or Skyquiem/DJ as the last partner. But I've been reading the last two as VI-town and they've both had negative reactions with Parama.

So if I store away Parama as town; that leaves Jenni/ThAdmiral/Coach Travis along with the pair of VI-town reads. Assuming a standard three person scum team that looks pretty legit to me; I went back through the game as there's no votes for each other outside a pair of random votes between Jenni and Coach. There's some mild suspicions but none of them actually have to act on them because the palmer disctraction express and a2lurkerboy provided convenient cover (as well as the furcolow and skyquiem sideshows).

I think Coach Travis is the best lynch, because on the off chance that Parama is scum he basically has to appear in that scumteam as well by default. Thus it makes the most sense to lynch him and get this one right for sure and then revisit tomorrow.

VOTE: Coach Travis

~

Oh and I'm Stephen Reynart, Dona Angiavesta Vorchenza's secretary and leader of the Midnighters.

[Parama]

VOTE JENNI OR THADMIRAL, FFS.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

VOTE JENNI OR THADMIRAL, FFS.

I think Coach Travis is the best lynch, because on the off chance that Parama is scum he basically has to appear in that scumteam as well by default. Thus it makes the most sense to lynch him and get this one right for sure and then revisit tomorrow.

That doesn't exactly sway me on that point.

[Coach Travis]

I'm not really getting that argument at all:You're saying it's an off chance Parama is scum, have basically said little about me this whole game, yet now you're voting me because in this scenario you find unlikely, I'd also be scum? For a Lylo situation, that seems pretty weak.

Also, I'm Capa Vencarlo Barsavi, leader of the Camorri underworld.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm not really getting that argument at all:You're saying it's an off chance Parama is scum, have basically said little about me this whole game, yet now you're voting me because in this scenario you find unlikely, I'd also be scum? For a Lylo situation, that seems pretty weak.

Also, I'm Capa Vencarlo Barsavi, leader of the Camorri underworld.

That's because you skipped the part of the post where I worked backwards to identify the scum team and then identified you as the possible hinge in case I was wrong. It's all right there in the post; perhaps you should try reading it?

[don_johnson]

what happened to the "popcorn"? in any case, i should be able to catch up sometime later tonight. is there a case on jenni? cause i don't see it in the first ten pages i've read. i feel like i already asked this. in any case, a refresher couldn't hurt.

[Coach Travis]

I read it, still sounds weak to me, like you're just using probability scenarios instead of actually finding reasons to suspect me. You've suspected the other two at various points, so I'd get voting them, but with me it just seems like I'm sorta the odd man out so it's automatically a vote.

[Parama]

"I should be able to catch up a week ago, but might as well delay it as much as possible."

-dj's past few posts

[don_johnson]

ok. you come over, fold four loads of laundry and make dinner for a family of four. this was a holiday weekend. sorry if i wanted to spend the little time i wasn't at work doing stuff with my family. not sure what the rush is here. in order for me to get "caught up" i need at least 45 minutes to an hour of solid reading time. this game is not my only committment to this site, nor does it take precedence over anything in my real life. most of the time i have spare moments throughout my day to check in and post. this works well when i am current in a game, but does not suit all that well when i replace. i happen to like the mod and had offered to replace into this a long time ago. having read half of the game it would be stupid to replace out now so its not going to happen. i will catch up when i can. the speed at which i am moving should not be a large hindrance to your ability to scumhunt, so quit acting like its a handicap of some sort. further, i have already given some reads which should be useful to you. its only been since friday, not "a week ago". maybe you should be more concerned with this failed name claim...

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I read it, still sounds weak to me, like you're just using probability scenarios instead of actually finding reasons to suspect me. You've suspected the other two at various points, so I'd get voting them, but with me it just seems like I'm sorta the odd man out so it's automatically a vote.

Well no offense, but I'm not trying to convince you with my argument. I've seen way too many town players try to convince scum that they're scum for no apparent benefit. If the other players I think are town are unconvinced then I'll then either redouble my arguments or work to reach a compromise scum lynch. In the meanwhile, if you are actually town I suggest you find ways to convince me of that fact instead of trying to get me to convince you that you're scum, but considering the way you opened the argument that's going to be a tough sell.