Mini 1075 - Fishtown Mafia

[Lrdwhyt]

The odds are very good that we won't be put into a worse position. That's just not the site meta any more.

Considering how other, "more skilled" (experienced) players don't seem to be agreeing with you, I think not.

But they will be blatantly obvious about it. We won't get powerroles at then regardless of whether we claim or not.

Perhaps they shouldn't be, then.

RQS!!!
1. What can we expect from you activity-wise?
2. What time zone are you in?
3. Are there any circumstances in which you would hammer someone you believe to be innocent?
4. What generation are you in/from?
5. I'm OCD and needed a fifth "question."

1. I post any time I have something to add, which should be multiple times a day.
2. EDT
3. Yes, if there was a good reason to believe that they weren't innocent.
4. I'm enrolled in an American high school.
5.

[cruelty]

ok hey. i'm in new zealand so i'm basically a day ahead of the usa. hence my inactivity thus far; halloween baby. anyway, it's sunday and i'm feeling a bit shady so i'll keep this brief.


1: disagree with an early mass-claim. the reasons why have been covered by others, but basically i'm very dubious about early scumreads. so, if we discount early scumreads as invalid (based on a lack of information), we're therefore massclaiming in what's more or less a random order, which obviously has potential benefits for scum.
2: i'm also not filled with joy at the idea of a late d1 massclaim. reasoning - we'd have to commit to doing it now, which is also to scum's benefit. i generally think that the best way for town to play is controlled chaos - we do our own thing until the stars align and someone slips up, at which point we all embrace our canine side and wolf pack the shit out of the person in question.

[fallen angel]

We wouldn't have to commit to it now any more than we would a D2 or D3 claim. Can you explain your reasoning behind why we would?

[AdumbroDeus]

VOTE: Empking


You're either incredibly dumb or rolefishing scum, which is it?


Let's out our PRs right now so scum can just NK them, and they have no reason to CC a PR so they can just claim vanilla.


The ONLY way this could work is with a setup with two doctors (which is inherently broken), for pretty much any other non-completely broken setup it needs to be at least d3 so the PRs can at least have info and produce confirmed townies.


I don't want you in lylo.

[AdumbroDeus]

Also before I forget...

General V/la due to a busy semester, especially monday-weds due to my 12 hour+ days.

[DavidParker]

AdumbroDeux

I think you not wanting someone in lylo based on a gameplay issue is a bit extreme. Empking is probably town despite his horrible mass-claim idea.

[cruelty]

We wouldn't have to commit to it now any more than we would a D2 or D3 claim. Can you explain your reasoning behind why we would?

perhaps poorly worded.

a massclaim is ridiculous on page 3 of day one, and we can't at this point say "yeah it's a viable strategy for later in the day" because it gives scum the opportunity to prepare (eg: breadcrumbing etc). whether or not they can actually use it to their advantage is neither here nor there, i just don't see the point in giving them the chance.


[the difference between a d1 and a d2/3 massclaim is that later on in the game they're a) more or less impromptu (ie: not telegraphed (literal) days in advance) and b) we'll have concrete facts to work with (lynches, nks, possibly night actions etc).]

Empking is probably town despite his horrible mass-claim idea.

uhh. why?

my dislike for people declaring town reads is superseded by my dislike for reads with no reasoning.

[DavidParker]

Well I have a huge like for calling people town with no reason. Get used to it.

Or just vote me off.

[singersigner]

After a 24 hour day that preceded 4 hours of sleep that followed another ridiculously long day in itself...I'm beat. But letting you know that I have read, and am currently waiting for the information to process in my head. I'm sure I'll have responses to your responses to my questions/the most recent developments by tomorrow (and yes, I'll be answering them myself, too, since someone seemed to get all butt-hurt about me not doing it before ). My LA continues for only a short while longer.

[DavidParker]

I'm struggling to comment further as a massive Halloween party has hampered my functionality.

[cruelty]

Well I have a huge like for calling people town with no reason. Get used to it.

Or just vote me off.

how is this attitude helpful in any way?

[xenophon]

/confirm. Sorry, have been afk and posting mobiley. And just before I start getting voted coz I'm the newb, I have played alot of mafia before :p so I don't have much to in put right now but I'm gonna reread all posts

[Empking]

AD: We know that MC will help. (the unrefutable logic I've given that's only been answered with "You're questions" or idiotic statements) So its only logical that I'd want a massclaim.

Can everyone agree that MC will:
Not have an impact on whether we have confirmed town in lylo.
Force scum into a position they'd rather not be in.
Give town greater information and allow them to better hunt for scum.

(Also since we know AD and HF are the scum we can get them to claim first.)

[Fishythefish]

Votecount 2

Empking (2) - havingfitz, AdumbroDeus
DavidParker (1) –singersigner
havingfitz (1) - Empking
Not voting (7) – ConfidAnon, xenophon, DavidParker, cruelty, Lrdwhyt, fallen angel, Nocmen

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[DavidParker]

Vote: AdumbroDeus

[havingfitz]

AD: We know that MC will help. (the unrefutable logic I've given that's only been answered with "You're questions" or idiotic statements) So its only logical that I'd want a massclaim.

Emp…what is with all the baseless assertions you have made in this game? I know I have been in a few games with you before and I don’t recall you playing like crap in them. “We know that MC will help” is not true, especially on D1. The proof we do not know it as evidenced by the majority of players in the game that have stated opposition to a MC. Speaking of proof…ass I’ve requested earlier…do you have any that a D1 MC is a good thing for town? Also, you have not provided “unrefutable” logic as I (and others) have refuted your logic.

Can everyone agree that MC will:
1. Not have an impact on whether we have confirmed town in lylo.
2. Force scum into a position they'd rather not be in.
3. Give town greater information and allow them to better hunt for scum.

1. Disagree…how often are there confirmed town in LYLO? I would wager it is not very often and that a MC would make it (have confirmed townies) less likely to occur.
2. Potentially
3. Potentially

And a MC on D1 reduces the likelihood of any of the situations you mention above occurring, IMO.

(Also since we know AD and HF are the scum we can get them to claim first.)

Another baseless assertion. So anyone who disagrees with your D1 claim and votes you is scum?

Emp….since D1 MCs are such a sure fire benefit to town….have you ever recommended one before? And any previous evidence of their success would be appreciated…as I have requested numerous times already.

[AdumbroDeus]

AD: We know that MC will help. (the unrefutable logic I've given that's only been answered with "You're questions" or idiotic statements) So its only logical that I'd want a massclaim.

Can everyone agree that MC will:
Not have an impact on whether we have confirmed town in lylo.
Force scum into a position they'd rather not be in.
Give town greater information and allow them to better hunt for scum.

(Also since we know AD and HF are the scum we can get them to claim first.)

Why would telling them who to NK put scum in a position they don't wanna be in? The just get to claim vanilla and kill the PRs and now we have the PRs less able to actually help town cause they're gonna die summarily.


In that case, the only possible use is to prevent counter-claiming, and if the PRs have no information, why would scum counter-claim them?

Having the PRs die will certainly make it far less likely that we'll have confirmed town in lylo because they'll die before they can confirm people.


That logic is far from irrefutable, it has more holes then swiss cheese.



Since you have a scummy, I'm going with "dear lord you should know this is bad" and you're obviously trying to take advantage of how inexperienced town is in this game because mini opens always have tons of inexperienced players fresh off the newbie que.

AdumbroDeux

I think you not wanting someone in lylo based on a gameplay issue is a bit extreme. Empking is probably town despite his horrible mass-claim idea.

It's literally a textbook scumtell coming from a player who has a scummy, there's no explanation beyond trying to take advantage of town's inexperience.

[AdumbroDeus]

Seriously guys, how many successful d1 massclaims have there been on a non-theme game with crazy mechanics? Exempting truly broken setups?


So why in God's good name would we do it now? And why does it make any sense that a player as experienced as he is (and has a fracking scummy) would propose this? Emp is obvious-scum or took crazy pills.

[DavidParker]

I think he had other motives behind suggesting a day 1 claim. He's obviously not dumb enough to think people would have agreed to a mass claim. And this game isn't full of inexperienced players so he wasn't trying to take advantage of anyone. Recklessness = Town in my eyes.

[fallen angel]

Well I have a huge like for calling people town with no reason. Get used to it.

Or just vote me off.

Vote: AdumbroDeus

I think he had other motives behind suggesting a day 1 claim. He's obviously not dumb enough to think people would have agreed to a mass claim. And this game isn't full of inexperienced players so he wasn't trying to take advantage of anyone. Recklessness = Town in my eyes.

This bothers me. You provide no reason other than you think empking is town, and not wanting him in lylo is scummy to you. You're buddying with empking, declaring that he's town with no reason other than, "I have a huge like for calling people town with no reason." Your vote is baseless other than your belief that empking is innocent. Also, how is recklessness any more of a town tell than a scum tell? It's wifom. "Oh, the scum don't want to be lynched, so they won't act reckless, but the townies are less worried, so they can be reckless." "So wouldn't scum act reckless to appear to be town?"

Your entire argument is a relativist fallacy combined with buddying.
VOTE: DavidParker

[AdumbroDeus]

@Fallen Angel

: Vote Emp, obvious scum before dealing with dumb or scum.

I think he had other motives behind suggesting a day 1 claim. He's obviously not dumb enough to think people would have agreed to a mass claim. And this game isn't full of inexperienced players so he wasn't trying to take advantage of anyone. Recklessness = Town in my eyes.

Recklessness is a town-tell, but scum can drop town-tells as well, overall play is what counts, and overall play here...


The fact that he hasn't been lynched already suggests that this game is full of

relatively

inexperienced players, or at the very least weak ones.


As far as an ulterior motive, this is a mini normal, there's no normal town roles that can exploit a d1 massclaim enough to make it worthwhile and if he's just gambiting, town loses way too much.

[Lrdwhyt]

AD: We know that MC will help. (the unrefutable logic I've given that's only been answered with "You're questions" or idiotic statements) So its only logical that I'd want a massclaim.

Can everyone agree that MC will:
Not have an impact on whether we have confirmed town in lylo.
Force scum into a position they'd rather not be in.
Give town greater information and allow them to better hunt for scum.

(Also since we know AD and HF are the scum we can get them to claim first.)

If I wasn't convinced before that you aren't seriously arguing for a mass claim, I sure am now. How, in any way, was your logic irrefutable? Your asking for a mass claim was either a joke and you're not even trying, or you really want a mass claim, and you're hoping that no one will actually read your arguments.

1. As someone else said, no. Outing the roles means power roles die, thus decreasing the chances of having confirmed town in LYLO.
2. Depends on whether they're early in the mass claim or not.
3. Yes.

And if you do have an ulterior motive, do explain now. It seems obvious that no one is supporting a mass claim, so you may as well explain why.

[fallen angel]

@Fallen Angel

: Vote Emp, obvious scum before dealing with dumb or scum.

I'm happy with my vote where it is. Just because he's obvscum to you, doesn't mean I believe he is. He could very well be, but it's three pages into the game. That's far too early to pass judgement on who is definitely scum.

[Lrdwhyt]

Well I have a huge like for calling people town with no reason. Get used to it.

Or just vote me off.

Vote: AdumbroDeus

I think he had other motives behind suggesting a day 1 claim. He's obviously not dumb enough to think people would have agreed to a mass claim. And this game isn't full of inexperienced players so he wasn't trying to take advantage of anyone. Recklessness = Town in my eyes.

This bothers me. You provide no reason other than you think empking is town, and not wanting him in lylo is scummy to you. You're buddying with empking, declaring that he's town with no reason other than, "I have a huge like for calling people town with no reason." Your vote is baseless other than your belief that empking is innocent. Also, how is recklessness any more of a town tell than a scum tell? It's wifom. "Oh, the scum don't want to be lynched, so they won't act reckless, but the townies are less worried, so they can be reckless." "So wouldn't scum act reckless to appear to be town?"

Your entire argument is a relativist fallacy combined with buddying.
VOTE: DavidParker

How is recklessness a scumtell? By your logic, scum would give off towntells all the time, thus making them scumtells as well.

[DavidParker]

Your entire argument is a relativist fallacy combined with buddying.

Oh trust me, I'm not even going to argue or refute this, because it's true. But I'm buddying because I'm right (he is town) and don't mind using silly falacies if I have to.