Newbie 1012 - Game over

[Enigma]

Well I was a bit nervous come LYLO.
Even though I've played several games I always happen to get nightkilled, nor have I played scum for a proper game here before this one.
It's so much easier knowing what to do in LYLO when you aren't actually in it XD.

[Shadow Dancer]

I pointed out several times that a real cop shouldn't ever CC a fake claim, especially on D1.

[nameloc1986]

I pointed out several times that a real cop shouldn't ever CC a fake claim, especially on D1.

But why not? If the fake claim is a scum, then he might get away with it if there is no CC. Granted, the cop could use N1 to investigate the the "fake" cop, just to make sure. But if the real cop turns up dead on N1, then the "fake" cop has some explaining to do.

[Shadow Dancer]

So whyt is not clear to you? You explained it yourself: CCing will burn the cop - without any investigation made.
A fake claiming scum is already dead, even if the real cop is killed he is proven to be scum.
So the cop does not need to worry and can just get investigations in.
If he hits the other scum on N1 it's GG
It he gets to townies, who preferably stay alive, and claims on D3 it's also GG for scum.

Cop is just a tremendously powerful role - and scum would do anything to eliminate a cop - fake claiming cop to provoke a counter claim is one of the obvious things to do, a cop is such a huge danger for scum that eliminating it quickly for the cost of one mafia member can be really beneficial to scum. But a cop can easily deny that by not CCing.
As a side note, scum fake claiming cop is much stronger if there are multiple mafia members, so one lost member does not preponderate that much. With just two members in the newbie setup it is more like a all-in move.
If you want an interesting example, look at newbie 958 were I sacrifice myself on D2 to draw out the cop for my partner to kill.

[Shadow Dancer]

What I should probably add is that the best time for a cop to claim is 1 day before LyLo for obvious reasons.

[nameloc1986]

I SORTA get what you're saying. What would the plan have been then if I flipped cop? The townies would have caught you in your lie and you would be the number one suspect Day 2.

[Shadow Dancer]

That would have been really bad luck...
Probability 5% for it to happen to be precise, not even taking into account second guessing by the doc.

[DavidParker]

umm but you got lynched day 2 anyways when you admittd to lying. Look ive been in your exact situation, exact same thing happened. I claimed cop day 1 to avoid the lynch, noone counter claimed, day 2 at first i pretended to be cop still, then finally admitted i wasn't. regardless, i still got lynched. That's how this site meta works, i didnt even have to jump on your wagon for your lying as scum, the site meta just destroys ppl who lie in newbie games like you did.

[PogoStick]

When you are town, you don't lie

mislynch telling the truth gives more info than mislynch of town lying cause it could easily be twisted as scum lying

only lie as scum.

[DavidParker]

oh, i'm all for lying, i have to disagree with some on that regard, but with mafiascum meta where it is now, don't get caught out in your lie. You should have just claimed to have been roleblocked on day 2. You probably could have easily avoided a lynch (unless cop counter claimed u, then u get lynched anyways)

[PogoStick]

oh, i'm all for lying, i have to disagree with some on that regard, but with mafiascum meta where it is now, don't get caught out in your lie. You should have just claimed to have been roleblocked on day 2. You probably could have easily avoided a lynch (unless cop counter claimed u, then u get lynched anyways)

And that is why you have a bad reputation so I'll not follow your advice

[nameloc1986]

When you are town, you don't lie

mislynch telling the truth gives more info than mislynch of town lying cause it could easily be twisted as scum lying

only lie as scum.

What about when you are the doctor? If I was the doctor I would roleclaim vanilla townie first and only roleclaim doctor at the last minute if needed. As a doctor, there isn't another doctor to save you from nightkill.

[PogoStick]

If you are a doc, your goal is to lay under the radar. If you failed to do that than yeah I guess claiming VT would be fine but day 1 regardless if I am town or scum, I am pushing for a VT lynch. Mafia theory says it's the safest lynch and I'll never waiver.

[PogoStick]

Basically if you are a doc, day 1 stfu

[DavidParker]

theory smeory. Sticking to site meta 100% is the reason scum win the majority of games on mafiascum. They know just what to expect from town.

[PogoStick]

And what's your Record as town and scum?

[andrew94]

Basically if you are a doc, day 1 stfu

hey that guys not talking . his the doc! lets kill him at night.

dont play depending on w hat role u get, play the same every time

[Shadow Dancer]

I agree with David Parker.
The reason for David's bad reputatoion is not his gambit play, btw, but that he happens to play some games with VI meta.

Interestingly Dickov brought up the same critique on petrified site meta - only that ironically of all people he aimed it against me.

Another funny, thought insignificant, fact is that strictly speaking I did not even lie. My exact words were "I claim cop" which I obviously did by posting those words. I never pretended that I actually

were

the cop.

@Hop: You do not even understand your own meta, as it seems. The only logical conclusion from your own principles is that if you are doc and waggoned on D1 you claim doc to stop the mislynch because as claimed VT you would be lynched any way.
Seriously, what you suggest is a town play that is almost 100% predictable. And that just wins games for scum.
Even worse, it encourages both townies and scum to just shut off their brains and act in established, stereotyped ways, making them unable to adapt to new situations, again allowing scum to just outplay them.
If you are half as clever as you obviously consider yourself to be, you should very cautiously read the wiki article about WIFOM again.

[andrew94]

scum= 100% victory in newbie
town= this is the first game lost

[Shadow Dancer]

Not true.

[andrew94]

in newbies

[Shadow Dancer]

@Enigma: What makes me a - in your words - "hypocritical fuck", by the way?

[PogoStick]

I agree with David Parker.
The reason for David's bad reputatoion is not his gambit play, btw, but that he happens to play some games with VI meta.

Interestingly Dickov brought up the same critique on petrified site meta - only that ironically of all people he aimed it against me.

Another funny, thought insignificant, fact is that strictly speaking I did not even lie. My exact words were "I claim cop" which I obviously did by posting those words. I never pretended that I actually

were

the cop.

@Hop: You do not even understand your own meta, as it seems. The only logical conclusion from your own principles is that if you are doc and waggoned on D1 you claim doc to stop the mislynch because as claimed VT you would be lynched any way.
Seriously, what you suggest is a town play that is almost 100% predictable. And that just wins games for scum.
Even worse, it encourages both townies and scum to just shut off their brains and act in established, stereotyped ways, making them unable to adapt to new situations, again allowing scum to just outplay them.
If you are half as clever as you obviously consider yourself to be, you should very cautiously read the wiki article about WIFOM again.

i understand my own meta more than you know, if I was town doc there is no chance I'd get run up day 1 ever.

[Shadow Dancer]

I agree with David Parker.
The reason for David's bad reputatoion is not his gambit play, btw, but that he happens to play some games with VI meta.

Interestingly Dickov brought up the same critique on petrified site meta - only that ironically of all people he aimed it against me.

Another funny, thought insignificant, fact is that strictly speaking I did not even lie. My exact words were "I claim cop" which I obviously did by posting those words. I never pretended that I actually

were

the cop.

@Hop: You do not even understand your own meta, as it seems. The only logical conclusion from your own principles is that if you are doc and waggoned on D1 you claim doc to stop the mislynch because as claimed VT you would be lynched any way.
Seriously, what you suggest is a town play that is almost 100% predictable. And that just wins games for scum.
Even worse, it encourages both townies and scum to just shut off their brains and act in established, stereotyped ways, making them unable to adapt to new situations, again allowing scum to just outplay them.
If you are half as clever as you obviously consider yourself to be, you should very cautiously read the wiki article about WIFOM again.

i understand my own meta more than you know, if I was town doc there is no chance I'd get run up day 1 ever.

No further comments...

[DavidParker]

maybe you should be looking to get run up (but not lynched) just so scum don't nightkill you as a posisble PR.. It's all WIFOm. There's no correct or single-optimal way of playing.