Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[ReaperCharlie]

9.) Hell no you didn't say "scummy". You said "I don't like" that's one of those quantifications that are so awesome.

Why would I notlike it if I found it townie? I forgot I had to spell everything out.

Oh look, I did actually spell it out;

I don't like the fact that

Andrius

has RVS'd VasudeVa but then FoS'd (rather than voted) Bowser. Considering that Bowser has a five-strong wagon by the time of his post (#342),

it looks very suspicious to me.

He continues to keep the VasudeVa RV through the rest of his catchup posts.

Yeah Andrius.

Why DID you do that?

[ReaperCharlie]

Noises/Ward List 1.03

Andrius

- No Noises (272), Did Not Ward (272)

AurorusVox

- No Noises (219), Did Not Ward (219)

Baby Spice

- No Noises (308),

Warded MagnaofIllusion

(308)

Benmage

- No Noises (55),

Stalked Fate

(62),

Insanity: Suicidal (N1)

Bowser

- No Noise (35), Did not Ward (35)

El Goosuki

(warded by Furculow)

-

Heard Noises

(67), Did Not Ward (604)

Fate

(stalked by Benmage)

-

Heard Noises

(71), Did Not Ward (71)

Feysal

- No Noise (42), Did not Ward (42)

Furcolow

- No Noise (12),

Warded El Goosuki

(12)

Furpants_Tom

- No Noise (680),

Ward/ing Unknown

hitorogoshi

-

Heard Noises

(50), Did not Ward (64)

kunkstar7

-

Heard Noises

(8), Did not Ward (33)

Lost Butterfly

-

Heard Noises

(85), Did not Ward (85)

MagnaofIllusion

(Warded by Baby Spice and xvart)

-

Heard Noises

(7), Did not Ward (7)

Plum

- No Noises (296), Did Not Ward (296)

ReaperCharlie

(Warded by rewq455)

-

Heard Noises

(6), Did not Ward (26)

rewq455

-

Heard Noises

(222),

Warded ReaperCharlie

(137)

Seacore

-

Heard Noises

(69), Did Not Ward (69)

SpyreX

- No Noises (247), Did Not Ward (247)

Super Smash Bros. Fan

- No Noises (346), Did Not Ward (346)

totallynotmafia

- No Noises (318), Did Not Ward (597)

Triglav

- No Noise (63), Did Not Ward (272)

Trilobite

- No Noise (38), Did not Ward (38)

VasudeVa

- No Noise (278), Did not Ward (278)

VP Baltar

-

Heard Noises

(44), Did Not Ward (567)

Wickedestjr

-

Heard Noises

(233), Did Not Ward (233)

Wingless

- No Noise (41), Did not Ward (41)

xvart

-

Heard Noises

(52),

Warded MagnaofIllusion

(603)

Mmmm, spicy and delicious.

[Fate]

Seacore is town because his crumb+motives are very clear to me. Can't say more without outing his claim, which I would like to avoid as there are much better targets out there today.

@???: Furc warded his scumbuddy becomes more and more unlikely as I realize warding would only prevent stalks (from cult pov), which as an:

WAIT FOR IT.

UNLIKELY TOWN ACTION N0.


@RC: DID YOU JUST FUCKING NINJA ME BY QUOTING AFUCKING LIST AND APPROVING IT?
AND YOU THINK IM HARD TO READ YOU USELESS SACK?

[VP Baltar]

Also, I think it's much scummier to subtly discredit someone's "confirmed" status than try to confirm oneself. Magna/xvart/VP Baltar/AurorusVox/kunkstar, I'm looking straight in your direction.

What the eff are you talking about? I said he's town. I've said that several times. I said I"m unsure if he'd stay town and that it's dumb to call anyone confirmed in a game where they can flip scum at any time. You disagree with that? If so, then I think you're being ignorant of the setup mechanics.

[totallynotmafia]

For me, because town are genuinely trying to find the scum, and scum are trying to look like they're genuinely trying to find the scum, the only real "scumtells" I look for or rely on are the unecessary bits people include or the bits that on the surface look innocent or pro-town or even just a throwaway line but an actual town member would be unlikely to say it in that situation - kind of like you can tell someone is lying when they overcompensate by providing too much information. So yes, you stating you would like to hear more from certain people that early in the game with already a wealth of posts (I mean, you could have just said "I don't have a read on these players yet"), was the most voteworthy thing at that stage.

So, do you have any reads on anybody other than me? Also, what do you think of xvart posting the noise and ward lists?

No, not yet, well not scummy reads anyway, certain things people have done/said lead me to believe they are more likely to be town, but I'm not big on stating these in the thread, not unless they are in danger of being lynched anyway. The noise list is obviously good because it shows the people who are possibly in danger and thus narrows the list of potential protects for those with rez kits. As I said in my first post I wasn't too keen on everyone claiming wards/no wards as it basically shows scum who the "PRs" are...although I guess some of the investigator no wards could be stalks. I guess also if everybody claims their target for their wards that should narrow the list of potential protects as well.

Your explanation is plausible, just not sure if I believe it yet.

Think of it this way. I mentioned my town reads. Then I mentioned my scum reads. Then I mentioned the players I needed to hear more from all in the same paragraph. Why would I ask for more posting from players I already have reads on? I wouldn't. Obviously, I asked for more posts because I couldn't read them, and I think it makes sense that those were my neutral reads because they followed immediately after my town reads and scumreads.

The fact is saying you would like to hear more from people that early in the game from people who had already posted (some multiple times) is unecessary to say the least, did you think we weren't gonna post any more without you asking? And why do you have to have a read on everyone and sort out everyone into scum and town so early in the game?

Fate, if BM is town and genuinely believes you're scum he's probably gonna go ahead and murder you anyway, and if you flip town then we're probably gonna lynch BM tomorrow, so the whole thing would be disastrous in the end.

Umm... If BM murders Fate that means he isn't cult because cult can't murder. So... why would we lynch him in that case?

Ah yeah you're right, forgot about that for a sec.

I'm not sure if totallynotmafia actually is totally not mafia. Nearly everything he's said has been regarding content aside from his suspicion of me. Apart from that, I don't think he has given us any reads, and again, I'm not believing that his suspicion of me is the best he's got.

Why on Earth would I be keeping better suspicions to myself if I had them?

And like I said, I'm thinking now that the whole rezzing Fate plan is a bad idea, it's not worth risking all the town rez kits being wasted on Fate just to clear BM.

[kunkstar7]

Where's Kunkstar?

Sleeping / travelling.....not sure what your point in asking where I am when you don't say anything for me to respond to.

I don't really see the problem with Benmage trying to kill Fate tonight and Fate getting protected. It confirms Benmage and the insanities don't cause too much of a problem, because we can just have him grave rob. In SA II there was a way to make sure that a player actually cooperated and grave robbed when they were supposed to. Is there something preventing that plan from working here?... because otherwise I don't see the harm in having Benmage become a grave robber after confirming him.

As far as I know, graverobbing as a roleblock is still possible, and something that should be put to use to deal with murderers.

Fate isn't scum in my view. So there is no reason to kill him. No reason to waste Occult books on benmage because its pretty apparent that benmage stalked, I see no scum advantage to why someone would throw themselves under the bus by openly admitting a stalk. xvart in Post #627 brings up a good idea, the Commune should go to Furcolow to clear him up further.

Hito's ISO #17 makes sense to me, no point in pushing that point further.

Unvote: Furcolow.

Wtf is this aversion to insanities?! You can pick something like "Twitchy" and it's FINE if we know the reason for it.

I don't like this. Insanities should be discouraged highly, as most insanity gaining actions are not pro-Investigator. Opening the gates for insanities, as long as they are supposedly explained, allows too much room for cult/murderer actions under the guise of supposed actions.

[AurorusVox]

Fate isn't scum in my view. So there is no reason to kill him. No reason to waste Occult books on benmage because its pretty apparent that benmage stalked, I see no scum advantage to why someone would throw themselves under the bus by openly admitting a stalk. xvart in Post #627 brings up a good idea, the Commune should go to Furcolow to clear him up further.

What would you recommend we do with Benmage then? And I've already pointed out two flaws in xvart's plan, so no, it's not a good idea.

Wtf is this aversion to insanities?! You can pick something like "Twitchy" and it's FINE if we know the reason for it.

I don't like this. Insanities should be discouraged highly, as most insanity gaining actions are not pro-Investigator. Opening the gates for insanities, as long as they are supposedly explained, allows too much room for cult/murderer actions under the guise of supposed actions.

You're perfectly happy to tell Fate to waste his Commune on Furc, and thus gain an insanity; but when I suggest it's okay to get an insanity for a similar (and more effective plan) you "don't like it."

[Wickedestjr]

So, do you have any reads on anybody other than me? Also, what do you think of xvart posting the noise and ward lists?

No, not yet, well not scummy reads anyway, certain things people have done/said lead me to believe they are more likely to be town, but I'm not big on stating these in the thread, not unless they are in danger of being lynched anyway. The noise list is obviously good because it shows the people who are possibly in danger and thus narrows the list of potential protects for those with rez kits. As I said in my first post I wasn't too keen on everyone claiming wards/no wards as it basically shows scum who the "PRs" are...although I guess some of the investigator no wards could be stalks. I guess also if everybody claims their target for their wards that should narrow the list of potential protects as well.

So, we are 26 pages into the game and you have one scumread. WOW!

Concerning xvart, I don't believe that you wouldn't have any problem with him. You suspect players that try to act pro-town. xvart gives a noise and ward list and you don't suspect it at all. I'm starting to get the impression that there are very few things a player could say to raise your suspicions.

The fact is saying you would like to hear more from people that early in the game from people who had already posted (some multiple times) is unecessary to say the least, did you think we weren't gonna post any more without you asking?

Of course not. This is why I think it is obvious that I meant they were the players I was having trouble getting reads on.

And why do you have to have a read on everyone and sort out everyone into scum and town so early in the game?

Why not? I think I made that post after reading at least 15 pages. That's enough to have plenty of reads.

Why on Earth would I be keeping better suspicions to myself if I had them?

This is not what I mean. I don't believe you are withholding your reads. I just don't believe that I would be your top suspect for the reason you have given when it is page 26 or 27 if you were town.

And like I said, I'm thinking now that the whole rezzing Fate plan is a bad idea, it's not worth risking all the town rez kits being wasted on Fate just to clear BM.

I may be missing something, but why can't we just have one person rez Fate?

[xvart]

And I've already pointed out two flaws in xvart's plan, so no, it's not a good idea.

But the flaws are flaws in determining if he is Cult; not determining if he is lying investigator going Murderer. The general consensus is that he is fairly cleared of being Cult, so that is almost a moot point. My point in my last post was that the plan was better when it could catch Cult and Murderer (if in the off chance the town's nonCult read of Furcolow is wrong). I still think it's a good plan because he is lying and most likely already has an insanity. Fate does not have an insanity. Commune will show if Fucolow is an Investigator going Murderer.

xvart.

[kunkstar7]

The first flaw you mentioned was in fact the benefit for communing Furcolow, to clear him from having stalked with an actual result.
The second flaw assumes you are looking for a cultist, when its more likely that Furcolow would be possible murderer, the only thing that we are trying to clear up. Furcolow is a wildcard currently, and the assurance will let town move on past him without worrying about him. His situation is much more important to clear up in my perspective than Fate/benmage. To be honest I don't trust him to have not gone murderer.

Benmage should be just read for his play, as hito has suggested. With his claimed stalk its obvious that he is more likely currently an investigator, we just need to keep an eye that he doesn't turn murderer, which can be accomplished by having him graverobbing.

Your plan of having Fate killed and resuscitated results in double the insanities and the waste of a rez kit to check something that should be obvious anyway. I don't think Fate should be killed, he isn't playing scum, whats the point of giving both players an extra insanity and the use of someone's rez kit when you can see that the motivation for benmage's claiming of stalk makes him investigator-ish, so both players are likely town?

[Wickedestjr]

As far as I know, graverobbing as a roleblock is still possible, and something that should be put to use to deal with murderers.

Exactly. Having Benmage grave rob would be for that exact reason. If we confirm he is not cult, it doesn't matter if he gets an insanity, because we can prevent him from winning as a murderer as well by making him grave rob.

xvart in Post #627 brings up a good idea, the Commune should go to Furcolow to clear him up further.

Hito's ISO #17 makes sense to me, no point in pushing that point further.

Unvote: Furcolow.

Why do you want Fate to use commune on Furcolow if you no longer find him voteworthy?

[kunkstar7]

Why do you want Fate to use commune on Furcolow if you no longer find him voteworthy?

Furcolow is a wildcard currently, and the assurance will let town move on past him without worrying about him. His situation is much more important to clear up in my perspective than Fate/benmage. To be honest I don't trust him to have not gone murderer.

He is likely Investigator, but could possibly be turning murderer. A commune on him will clear that up, rather than lynching an Investigator because of the possibility of becoming murderer.

[manho]

replacing wingless.

[AurorusVox]

And I've already pointed out two flaws in xvart's plan, so no, it's not a good idea.

But the flaws are flaws in determining if he is Cult; not determining if he is lying investigator going Murderer.

I find it highly unlikely that he stalked.

- Furc played in SA II, and in SA II, when warding, you hear a noise regardless of whether anyone visits you
- If Furc lied about Warding (i.e. if he stalked someone) then he would have claimed to have heard a noise, since as far as he would have known, he SHOULD have heard a noise
- Thus, I do not believe he is lying about Warding

- If he warded, then it is very unlikely that he is going murder route
- Occult Book wasted

Benmage should be just read for his play, as hito has suggested. With his claimed stalk its obvious that he is more likely currently an investigator, we just need to keep an eye that he doesn't turn murderer, which can be accomplished by having him graverobbing.

Your plan of having Fate killed and resuscitated results in double the insanities and the waste of a rez kit to check something that should be obvious anyway. I don't think Fate should be killed, he isn't playing scum, whats the point of giving both players an extra insanity and the use of someone's rez kit when you can see that the motivation for benmage's claiming of stalk makes him investigator-ish, so both players are likely town?

Are we reading the same Benmage play here?

- He did not claim to have stalked Fate UNTIL Furc said that anyone who stalked would be clear. Importantly, he did not realise that he would be forced to prove that he stalked
- He still tried to lynch Fate and fought against the idea of shooting Fate; probably because he never stalked in the first place
- Only after a number of people pointed out that this was BAD did he assent to shooting Fate.

What I'm saying is that him claiming to have stalked does not mean that he did stalk.

Essentially, we're arguing the same thing but on different players. I see Furc's claim as practically watertight, but I see a lot of wiggle room for Benmage to fakeclaim. You see Benmage's claim as practically watertight and wiggle room on Furc to fakeclaim.

[manho]

[i didn't meant to hit the submit button]

will read the thread soon.

[hitogoroshi]

As far as I know, graverobbing as a roleblock is still possible, and something that should be put to use to deal with murderers.

Free Action: You may choose Rob Grave and another Night Action.

I want exactlly one town necrophiliac to ensure cult doesn't get grave dust or equipment. If the rest of the town pledges not to graverob, we either get Furcolow having sweet equipments OR we make cult take extra insanities just to block him (they still don't get anything).

Furcolow

, think you'd be up for the job? We'd of course plan out additional graverobs for the other graves, but I only want one necrophiliac. The catch is that you obviously wouldn't want solist, but we could probably give you special permission to grab voting-based insanities since you have nothing to prove.

I find it highly unlikely that he stalked.

- Furc played in SA II, and in SA II, when warding, you hear a noise regardless of whether anyone visits you
- If Furc lied about Warding (i.e. if he stalked someone) then he would have claimed to have heard a noise, since as far as he would have known, he SHOULD have heard a noise
- Thus, I do not believe he is lying about Warding

- If he warded, then it is very unlikely that he is going murder route
- Occult Book wasted

This is my position in a nutshell. Nicely done, AV.

[kunkstar7]

- He did not claim to have stalked Fate UNTIL Furc said that anyone who stalked would be clear. Importantly, he did not realise that he would be forced to prove that he stalked
- He still tried to lynch Fate and fought against the idea of shooting Fate; probably because he never stalked in the first place
- Only after a number of people pointed out that this was BAD did he assent to shooting Fate.

Points conceded.

Does your plan involve Fate using his commune, or just surviving the shot?

@Hito regarding the graverob roleblock, it consists of having a player waste both night actions on robbing seperate graves. This double graverob was a crucial component to shutting down murderers in SA2 (I know, I had to do it a couple times). Graverobbing should be left to players that are considered likely murderer, and having someone with Necrophilia reduces the effectiveness of that roleblock. The only thing crucial this game is to make sure that graves are robbed by two players apiece.

[Benmage]

Are you fucking kidding me......points conceded.....you must be fucking joking....what did I claim stalk on PG 2,3?? You two .....hilarious.

[AurorusVox]

Does your plan involve Fate using his commune, or just surviving the shot?

I guess there's no reason why he couldn't Commune, but if we were still planning on testing Benmage's shooting plan, and Benmage

was

legit, that would make Fate take two insanities in one night (which is worse that two people taking one insanity each). Culting Benmage will not work to check if he stalked (I believe the side-effects of Cower/Launder (insanity) will resolve before the Commune checks for insanity), so it would be a waste to use it on him.

[AurorusVox]

Are you fucking kidding me......points conceded.....you must be fucking joking....what did I claim stalk on PG 2,3?? You two .....hilarious.

Pew pew, post numbers prove it, pew pew

unless someone decided to admit they stalked someone and kill them tomorrow. If this is the case, it could be really good for us, or really bad. If they behave as confirmed town, and don't ever stalk then kill again, it could be really good for us.

Whatchya talkin bout willis?

I'm saying if someone wanted to say "I stalked ____", and then they perform the kill, they are confirmed town

Read

I

between

stalked

the

Fate

lines

[VP Baltar]

Maybe looking at the Noise/No Noise claims might let us predict the distribution of cultists in each category?

Eh, I think there is a lot of WIFOM involved in that. Probably after multiple nights it will help to sort things out though.

Link?

But anyway, there is strong evidence implying that Furc warded on N1, which is a suboptimal action for a wannabe murderer.

Glance at him in SAII and see how many times I had to try to talk him out of killing. I think if I had let him go, he would have tried to go murderer there. In terms of Furc playing suboptimally...well.......

You realize that Bowser is CSL, right?

I mean...you've played with CSL before. Do you think his vote is out of character with his town self?

I do in fact realize. You do in fact realize that he doesn't get a free pass for every move he makes because he's CSL, right? He was actually scum in SAII and we successfully caught and lynched him there. You don't learn people's alignments by ignoring things.

[ReaperCharlie]

You realize that Bowser is CSL, right?

I mean...you've played with CSL before. Do you think his vote is out of character with his town self?

I do in fact realize. You do in fact realize that he doesn't get a free pass for every move he makes because he's CSL, right? He was actually scum in SAII and we successfully caught and lynched him there. You don't learn people's alignments by ignoring things.

BOOM. another strike against LB.

/likes VP Baltar

[VasudeVa]

@Hito:

Err. I don't think Furcolow is the best choice since Insanities are hella harsher now + Private Infarctions. I clarified this in the sign up: Two strikes of the same = Modkill. Three strikes of any = Modkill. I'd rather someone who's..a bit more careful do it, to prevent unecessary modkills on not-cult. No offense to Furc, but he doesn't really strike me as the most careful player out there.

@AurorusVox:

Why is Andy's Bowser FoS + VasVote suspicious? If Andy flips scum, who do you think is his buddy? Also, what do you think of MoI?

@Fate:

How is Seacore Town? You like to quote/link to post that you think are clear, but I'm not seeing any~

--prev-edit--
ohJoy, LB is scum with Bowser. Yay!

[Furcolow]

i'm not graverobbing. It's not my cup of tea. Get benmage to do it. I already know my action for tonight, and I'm not going to tell you all what it is, but I have a pretty good plan.

[Furcolow]

"First of all, you did say you were "trying to play to your town meta""
XVART: I DON'T HAVE TO TRY. IT COMES NATURALLY.