Reckamonic's Ocarina of Time Mafia..OVER! Was Hyrule saved?

[Bunnylover]

@Dekes:
I think my read on Ythan is bias, because I really really do hate his play style. It really is very aggressive, with a bunch of one liners to just make the person he attacking give up all hope. I do not like that, and I know some players who play aggressive when they are scum. But he is getting discussion started, he is allowing people to take a stance which can later be looked at, he is attacking those he believe are scum. My suspicion of him been scum is outweighed by what he accomplishes. I see what your saying about my fencesitting though.
o.o Did you like miss that entire post? I just said I was starting to scum hunt starting with Akiage.
I did not know the deadline was in 72 hours, but I haven't found anything else to put my vote on (atm). Although that can change in those 72 hours.

Dekes your saying Cupcake is worst then Substrike, but your voting Substrike instead of Cupcake. Why?

[mothrax]

Either that cv is rife with error or there are two double voters in this game.

@Mods: confirm vc is correct?

[Reckamonic]

I don't think there is a mistake in it...?

[Exilon]

This is getting a little stupid. Just... Claim already <.<

[DTMaster]

Recent points: will finish the reread later.

@Chess
I know I meant the psychology behind why scum-chess would choose his vanillizing targets. You can understand someone based on night action analysis which would be applied to you in the point I make with Gandalf.

@Dekes
1. I checked Cupcake and Katsuki. Cupcake hasn't posted since Tuesday which appears to be just inactivty. Katsuki has I think about ~4 games worth of activity (it appears Mayo clinic mafia just ended link here have a read over Katsuki) http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 51&t=15164

Therefore I verify that Katsuki has been ignoring this game since Monday of the last post.

2. However I find your Substrike wagoning to be sloppy (as much as I like this wagon). If you are voting Substrike for voting for the "wrong reasons", then do you see Cupcake as town? Which would be weird since you outlined an active lurking argument on Cupcake.

I get bad vibes when I read the transition from Substrike attack/vote with a Cupcake side dish. It doesn't logically flow.

[DTMaster]

@Vote Count.

Counting Zwet, and Substrike being Cuccoed ... (wait. Substrike was Cuccooed. Paranoid idea set on very high about that. )
There is an extra vote on LL (I think Kai mentioned this?)
There is also an extra non-voter between Fluffy and Aikage... (which begs the question "Who is Fluffy")

Otherwise this is normal.

[GandalfIzSik]

What. The. Hell. Do my eyes deceive me, or does he really say he wants to keep someone who might be a detriment to town later?

I think his point was that VIs should be lynched later in the game. He's wrong, but he's not scummy.

I don't see any backing up of these statements anywhere. Sounds like you were trying to use others to build your case for you.

What backing up do they need? It's all logic.

Insta-contradiction, just add water! Only thing I could possibly think of to excuse this is shotty posting., then gandalf. Oh wait, thats the explanation given.

Because that's what happened. Notice the spelling fail(s) in the first one.

Way to say "Lynch the VI' without saying "Lynch the VI" >.>

He can't really say lynch the VI, cause then we'd get lynched. >.>

Claiming inside information here are you?

Not at all, simply saying that some characters in the game might not have elements. After further consideration, I've changed my mind though.

Except your "Soft-claim-that-wasn't-really-a-soft-claim" ensures your death, unless one of two things happen/are true: 1) Doc protect and there aren't multiple kills or 2) you are scum.

I softclaimed for a reason, and you guys drawing attention to it is ruining it. Please stop. I could be lying about my role, maybe I'm trying to draw a NK? Any number of possibilities, pretty much all of which involve you guys NOT DRAWING ATTENTION TO IT. So stop.

Wonderful way to set up the pointing out of your own meta, except for a teensy tiny problem: the meta your pointed to is shotty's, not gandalf's, and as was already stated by gandalf himself:

STFU AND GO HOME. This was not the wall post I was talking about. And it's fairly obvious it wasn't, too. Caught scum here guys. 100%

Meta fail there.

What are you talking about here?

No. Softclaims are too important to ignore. the fact you are trying to get us to ignore it says to me that you didn't fully think your "claim" through, and need time to either formulate a convincing fakeclaim or actually thought about it. Which you think I am leaning more towards? (Hint: It doesn't look good for you.)

The point of a softclaim it's that it's SOFT. I'm trying to be at least a little discreet, if I wanted to give you guys all the info, I would have quoted my role PM.

And the rest of their posts have some part of what I have already mentioned that has made me suspicious of them in the first place.[/quote]

[GandalfIzSik]

Oops. That was supposed to be a quote from jmj.
[quote="Lady Lambdadelta]Also, I feel that Gandalf is trying to play up Shotty's VI status too much. Why would you Hydra with him, if you're just going to bash him for being a VI? It seems to me like he's doing it to cover for shotty's mistakes. The only reason you would do that, is if you were scum.

You do know that shotty is my best friend, right? I'm having more fun with this game than any other game on this site because I'm playing with him.

Thirdly, and I know this isn't a good reason to lynch someone, but I don't trust Gandalf/Shotty in a vanilla-less game, to use their power effectively, and for town benefit. Also, their softclaims so far have just been weird.

Our ability is very hard to screw up. I'll put it that way.

Do you need more reasons? I can read his ISO again, and find more evidence if needed.[/quote]

However, I would not object to having GIS become vigbait, and lynching Substrike. (seeing as we have given up on Ythan today >.<) So long as GIS dies too.

Being vigbait sounds like fun.

1. @Gandalf
I've been over this. The cases that chess is town I won't go over since it's self explainatory. The case where chess is scum

works in our favour on who he vanillizes

. Think of it like this:

Chess-scum-team is trading in removing power roles by

confirming their targets as not as the same faction as chess which works towards clearing townies

. If there are multiple factions, chess can hit opposing scum. If it's a single faction

we are having cleared townies on the run simply through claiming

Run blocks/redirect scenarios in your head. If that happens we know who's telling the truth and we can use wagon analysis for that. Chess' role works on so many levels to clear/discredit people based on if he is successful or not that night action analysis can crack the game open. The key words lie in:

The vanilliazing effect and suicide clause.

2. I don't understand where this boss term keeps popping up. Since when was a race a boss? I thought it was like Fairy or Hylain, or Zora.

:goodposting:
Although I don't see why you're explaining this to me. I've already said, chess should live until MC.
Kai and Zwet have both claimed bosses. They're not a race, they're just all millers.

[GandalfIzSik]

Oops. That was supposed to be a quote from jmj.

Also, I feel that Gandalf is trying to play up Shotty's VI status too much. Why would you Hydra with him, if you're just going to bash him for being a VI? It seems to me like he's doing it to cover for shotty's mistakes. The only reason you would do that, is if you were scum.

You do know that shotty is my best friend, right? I'm having more fun with this game than any other game on this site because I'm playing with him.

Thirdly, and I know this isn't a good reason to lynch someone, but I don't trust Gandalf/Shotty in a vanilla-less game, to use their power effectively, and for town benefit. Also, their softclaims so far have just been weird.

Our ability is very hard to screw up. I'll put it that way.

Do you need more reasons? I can read his ISO again, and find more evidence if needed.

However, I would not object to having GIS become vigbait, and lynching Substrike. (seeing as we have given up on Ythan today >.<) So long as GIS dies too.

Being vigbait sounds like fun.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't like this at all, sounds like he's jerking us around with more bullshit.

[Albert B. Rampage]

VOTE: chesskid3

You're not contributing in any meaningful way. Jester?

Also, I was always a Squirtle guy, so fuck your super effective bullshit.

are you really taking a page four claim seriously?

QFT.

I agree with Ythan on the Mothrax point, I think that deserves clarification.

I also fail to see JaBOC's scuminess.

Substrike has claimed to be a supporter of the Cupcake lynch. However, before he even starts on this train of thought, he was originally pressing for CH3's lynch.

Throughout his ISO, it is the opinion of Substrike that CH3 is probably a JESTER. This speculation is seen even in the same post as his VOTE on CH3. A huge contradiction.

Contradiction: In general terms, why would you want to lynch a Jester? It's illogical. It is to the benefit of neither town NOR scum. Ergo, it is hard for me to believe he thinks CH3 is a Jester, and keeps his vote on him.

I have

2

3 explanations for this act:

1. This is a way for scum to hold their vote, while they lurk to the next day. Not many questions will be raised concerning his vote, when its been placed this strategically on the wagon. When the Chesskid wagon collapsed, he could no longer hold his vote safely there, and removed it in favor of Cupcake (I'll discuss this after).

2. Look at the following post:

It's my understanding that lynching a Jester either meets that person's win condition, or

penalizes the town

(or person who lynches them) in some way if they're lynched?

Bolded part is interesting. If you believe that lynching a potential jester could penalize the town, why was your vote on him?

3. -insert mandatory Substrike is confused town argument- Do I need to explain further? He could just be speculating for no reason. I do it a lot myself >.<

Now, onto his Cupcake "case". I airquote "case" because there isn't much to be seen. Looking at his ISO, he makes one comment about how she is active lurking, and then re-iterates it. About 10 times.

There is no other reasoning given. The only point Substrike ever addresses is Cupcake's active lurking, even when called out upon it, as seen here:

Substrike:

You're voting Cupcake solely for active lurking? What do you think of his/her softclaim? Cupcake has 92 posts, whereas you have 24. Again, why do you think his/her active lurking is worse than your own?

24 posts with content > 12 posts of content + 80 completely irrelevant ones. (content for her increased a little during the LLD argument, imo)

I don't know why you'd use a protect all ability on day one, assuming we're buying the role claim. And I don't buy a "why not" as an answer to "why". There are clearly all sorts of flavor speculations jumping around right now and hers is just adding fuel to the fire. The fact is, I agree with the people suggesting that there may be safe claims given to scum.

I don't see what I've been doing as active lurking. I've picked my case, made it, and I don't have a good reason to move my vote at this time. If all the other town reads I have want to lynch GIS today, fine. But Cupcake is scum and that's where my vote will be. GIS warrants a (preferable) vig or (not-preferable) investigation, given the VI Hydra status.

Obviously, I'm ignoring the tiny bit of flavor speculation in the middle, which fails the answer any questions about Cupcake's guilt in his eyes ANYWAY.

That's about all I can find on the case against Substrike Albert.

My personal thoughts on the matter is kind of... unknown. >.< Up until this post, I hadn't even known there was a case on Substrike... I hadn't seen him post much of anything, so I didn't consider him.

The points I raised above certainly make me feel more confident in a Substrike lynch. I still kind of like GIS over him, simply because I find GIS to be impossible to reason with, town or scum (more likely scum). At least with Substrike (when he's here) you can get valid arguments/information out of him.

However, I would not object to having GIS become vigbait, and lynching Substrike. (seeing as we have given up on Ythan today >.<) So long as GIS dies too.

Vigbait is stupid. You don't have an extra kill and you can't tell an unclaimed vig who to kill either. I say we lynch one of GiS and substrike now.

[chesskid3]

WhatisMC

[Dekes]

@Bunnylover
Do you think Aikage is scum?
I voted Substrike over Cupcake because bigger waggon and deadline is close. Simple as that.

@DTM
I didn't vote Substrike because he voted Cupcake for the wrong reasons at all. I expressed and explained my suspicions one post prior to my last post. I could of course repeat the other reasons that's been brought up against him, e.g. Jester speculation on a person he keeps his vote on or the shift of reasons for which he voted for Cupcake among others, but since I won't be able to convince people of a Bunnylover wagon in time and because I thought GIS had more votes already on him, I switched to another good scum candidate.

And I don't see how Substrike and Cupcake can't both be scum. This can reach from bussing to several scum factions.
Fact is, Kat announced V/LA and yet posted in other threads.
Fact is, the other head didn't announce V/LA and didn't post in here either.
And this may be not a generally accepted idea, but I just expect more activity from a hydra.
They've gotten really quite since they are out of the crossfire and their vote on GIS to sheep Fate is just opportunistic, since I don't think they've mentioned GIS at all before.
I've made a case on Cupcake way back that didn't include active lurking nor flavor issues and these recent actions just add to their scumminess.

What is your stance on Cupcake? Are you content with their scumhunting activity? Or are you content enough that they've just been coasting on their BP claim and even let LL do all the defending for them?

@chess
Mass claim.

[Reckamonic]

Beefster replaces Kairyuu!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: chesskid3

You're not contributing in any meaningful way. Jester?

Also, I was always a Squirtle guy, so fuck your super effective bullshit.

are you really taking a page four claim seriously?

QFT.

I agree with Ythan on the Mothrax point, I think that deserves clarification.

I also fail to see JaBOC's scuminess.

Substrike has claimed to be a supporter of the Cupcake lynch. However, before he even starts on this train of thought, he was originally pressing for CH3's lynch.

Throughout his ISO, it is the opinion of Substrike that CH3 is probably a JESTER. This speculation is seen even in the same post as his VOTE on CH3. A huge contradiction.

Contradiction: In general terms, why would you want to lynch a Jester? It's illogical. It is to the benefit of neither town NOR scum. Ergo, it is hard for me to believe he thinks CH3 is a Jester, and keeps his vote on him.

I have

2

3 explanations for this act:

1. This is a way for scum to hold their vote, while they lurk to the next day. Not many questions will be raised concerning his vote, when its been placed this strategically on the wagon. When the Chesskid wagon collapsed, he could no longer hold his vote safely there, and removed it in favor of Cupcake (I'll discuss this after).

2. Look at the following post:

It's my understanding that lynching a Jester either meets that person's win condition, or

penalizes the town

(or person who lynches them) in some way if they're lynched?

Bolded part is interesting. If you believe that lynching a potential jester could penalize the town, why was your vote on him?

3. -insert mandatory Substrike is confused town argument- Do I need to explain further? He could just be speculating for no reason. I do it a lot myself >.<

Now, onto his Cupcake "case". I airquote "case" because there isn't much to be seen. Looking at his ISO, he makes one comment about how she is active lurking, and then re-iterates it. About 10 times.

There is no other reasoning given. The only point Substrike ever addresses is Cupcake's active lurking, even when called out upon it, as seen here:

Substrike:

You're voting Cupcake solely for active lurking? What do you think of his/her softclaim? Cupcake has 92 posts, whereas you have 24. Again, why do you think his/her active lurking is worse than your own?

24 posts with content > 12 posts of content + 80 completely irrelevant ones. (content for her increased a little during the LLD argument, imo)

I don't know why you'd use a protect all ability on day one, assuming we're buying the role claim. And I don't buy a "why not" as an answer to "why". There are clearly all sorts of flavor speculations jumping around right now and hers is just adding fuel to the fire. The fact is, I agree with the people suggesting that there may be safe claims given to scum.

I don't see what I've been doing as active lurking. I've picked my case, made it, and I don't have a good reason to move my vote at this time. If all the other town reads I have want to lynch GIS today, fine. But Cupcake is scum and that's where my vote will be. GIS warrants a (preferable) vig or (not-preferable) investigation, given the VI Hydra status.

Obviously, I'm ignoring the tiny bit of flavor speculation in the middle, which fails the answer any questions about Cupcake's guilt in his eyes ANYWAY.

That's about all I can find on the case against Substrike Albert.

My personal thoughts on the matter is kind of... unknown. >.< Up until this post, I hadn't even known there was a case on Substrike... I hadn't seen him post much of anything, so I didn't consider him.

The points I raised above certainly make me feel more confident in a Substrike lynch. I still kind of like GIS over him, simply because I find GIS to be impossible to reason with, town or scum (more likely scum). At least with Substrike (when he's here) you can get valid arguments/information out of him.

However, I would not object to having GIS become vigbait, and lynching Substrike. (seeing as we have given up on Ythan today >.<) So long as GIS dies too.

Vigbait is stupid. You don't have an extra kill and you can't tell an unclaimed vig who to kill either. I say we lynch one of GiS and substrike now.

Fine. If vigbait is stupid (and GIS seemed willing to be vig bait), I think that GIS > Substrike lynch ATM.

Would you agree? What is your stance on the two wagons? Which do you find to be superior, and why?

[Le Cupcake]

1. Fact is, Kat announced V/LA and yet posted in other threads.
2. Fact is, the other head didn't announce V/LA and didn't post in here either.
3. And this may be not a generally accepted idea, but I just expect more activity from a hydra.

1. Pure lying from dekes. At that time, Katsuki announced V/LA in all games (was in sig).
2. Other head doesn't post anywhere. Other head is hard to get in contact with, as both heads are always on at different times, and RL is a huge factor.
3. That is you then. I will point to Triglav in Alphabet mafia though as an example that hydras can not be expected to be any more active than a normal playerslot. And triglav had more heads too.
Just because we are a hydra means that we can pump out double the activity. If anything, being a hydra allows the two of us to play in a game that we'd otherwise be too busy to play in seperately.

[Dekes]

Whaddaya know? There they are again. Only to defend themselves. Funny you are right there to post when you have to.

Less defending, more hunting. Or are you still re-reading?

Anything to add to your GIS vote? Or the substrike wagon? Or anything at all?

[Le Cupcake]

No, I am not caught up.

Since you LOVE to stalk katsuki's OTHER games, I will hopefully get caught up this weekend (but you would already know that I am catching up during the weekend via stalkage of other games).
I do not know where my other head is though in terms of this game.

Do not expect anything from us until both heads are able to collaborate (We are not a combination of gandalf and shotty, after all).

[Dekes]

Better hurry then. Deadline's the 24th.

[Bunnylover]

@Dekes: No, I have no reads on Aikage. He has made 5 or 6 post, most of them complaining about the thread and how big it is. But I made a mistake, his vote is on Ythan (kinda), He wanted to vote Ythan, but said he couldn't (for some reason) although he hasn't given any reason as to why he wanted to vote him. So new question to Aikage:

Why are you voting Ythan?

Overall, I think Aikage should stop lurking, so reads can be made on him.

[chesskid3]

Substrike wagon is far superior

[Beefster]

I'm replacing Kairyuu. HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO GET 70 PAGES IN 2 WEEKS?!?!?!?!??!!!?!

It's gonna take me a while to catch up.

[gandalf5166]

Aikage is voteless.

[chesskid3]

Beef, vote substrike while you are catching up

[Beefster]

I've read up through page 15. These are my notes thus far:

JaBLoC - scum leaning
Allegedly over-defensive

Mafuyu - scum leaning
possibly buddying JaBLoC
Post restriction?

chesskid - scum/policy lynch
Not contributing content
Active Lurky
possible Jester?
Claims King Zora on page 10. (What are his powers?)
-refuses to divulge powers post 244
claimed 2 target 1-shot suicidal vanillizer
chainsaw defense
He says "Ignore my claim then." in post 349
uses "why me" tactic

DTMaster - slight scum lean
Weird voting early on

Substrike22 - slight scum lean
Suggested that chesskid is a jester, but had vote on him. He admitted it though.