Mini 1064 - Charlie's Town (Game Over!)

[Shotty to the Body]

God Spyre is such a a baddy right now, I have to decide if he's being honest about this or not. It's funny that both the people I find suspicious turn around and me vote me immediately. Spyre is at least partially genuine because I've seen him failtunnel before, what's your excuse Jmurph? You lurked through all of D1 and now you're voting me for what exactly? Please quote what you agree with from Spyre and why I look so bad after Richard's flip? No one comment on this till jmurph does kthx.

[SpyreX]

I'll wait with baited breath.

I'm curious about the question poised to nacho.

(Protip: for all the "ohhh NOES SPYREX IS SUCH A SCUM" there sure isn't a lot of votes. Hrrmmm, why is that?"

[FakeGod]

Vote: SpyreX

As you wish.

[SpyreX]

GOOD.

Wrong, but good. I want votes, one way or the other. This day will be galvanized.

[jmurph3]

Spyre is at least partially genuine because I've seen him failtunnel before, what's your excuse Jmurph? You lurked through all of D1 and now you're voting me for what exactly? Please quote what you agree with from Spyre and why I look so bad after Richard's flip?

Firstly, here's what I agree with from Spyrex:

If you need the classic "case that only will work after my flip" just remember him already pushing away from it via: "he isn't an asset even if he is town."

I'm noticing how quickly you've jumped on Spyre following the Richard flip. Given as you only focused on Richard during D1 - even when you mentioned suspicions of other players, it was always because of how they were interacting with Richard or in relation to Richard - I find it interesting the way you've approached Spyre thus far this game, and I don't mind voting for reactions' sake. What more do you want?

@CES: I guess the biggest problem I'm having with your logic toward Casus Belli is that I think you're throwing the comment of Casus Belli thinking Richard was very probably scum way out of proportion. To me, it's an innocuous comment that any one, town or otherwise, could make, and the fact that they were wrong doesn't mean that they're automatically scum because of it.

[Charlie]

Vote count 7

Casus Belli (1) - Cogito Ergo Sum
Shotty to the Body (2) - SpyreX, jmurph3
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) - Casus Belli
SpyreX (1) - FakeGod

Not voting: Nachomamma8, Substrike22, Reckamonic, masfloohinev, Shotty to the Body
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

[Casus Belli]

jmurph3

, why did you wait until asked to give your reasoning for the shotty vote? What other reads do you have right now? Opinions on Spy's hammer?

---

Well, you obviously thought more highly of your suspicion. Don't downplay it now.

We aren't downplaying anything. You said we were scummier based on Richard's flip, which isn't a definitive scumtell since, as we said, it happens. If you supported that with other evidence (or any evidence at all) that we were actually scum we might give you a little more credit for your efforts. Instead, the only real case you made on us yesterday only became true after Richard flipped, which is fairly prophetic. It was a decent setup, but the execution was a little lacking (as obvious by it backfiring).

No, I do not.

So was Richard's wagon a town failure or was it orchestrated by scum?

Isn't the idea of a chainsaw defense to defend your partner while keeping your distance?

Chainsaw defense is when you defend someone by attacking his/her attacker. Like you did here and here. You provided no actual comments on the Richard case at all. Why not?

P.S. Is "Casus Belli" singular or plural?

Singular works.

Reckamonic seemed to show an even stronger belief that RichardGHP, don't you think?

No, I don't. Furthermore, I see them as more likely to make the type of mistake that would see this type of behaviour coming from a townie.

Really? Please explain the difference between these two quotes and why one is town behavior and the other isn't.

Richard is scum, though, for this post.

We are feeling that Richard is very likely scum.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

We aren't downplaying anything. You said we were scummier based on Richard's flip, which isn't a definitive scumtell since, as we said, it happens.

You totally are downplaying things. Don't pretend your suspicion was run-of-the-mill.

Instead, the only real case you made on us yesterday only became true after Richard flipped, which is fairly prophetic.

Question: do you think I expected Richard to be lynched at the time I attacked you?

So was Richard's wagon a town failure or was it orchestrated by scum?

I don't know. And I also don't think this is a useful question to ask.

Chainsaw defense is when you defend someone by attacking his/her attacker. Like you did here and here. You provided no actual comments on the Richard case at all. Why not?

I know what Chainsaw defense is, but my understanding was that the purpose of it was to indirectly defend your partner (in the wiki article Tar says it's only valid if the chainsaw defendee has flipped scum). I'm not sure how I would benefit from chainsaw defending Richard.

Singular works.

I know it works. But which one did you have in mind when making it?

Really? Please explain the difference between these two quotes and why one is town behavior and the other isn't.

Sure. The second statement is much stronger simply because it is serious. The first one I would translate loosely as "I find Richard suspicious because of this post". The statements are wholly incomparable in terms of my case against you.

[Nachomamma8]

nachomamma, who do you suspect?

Jmurph, for posts like #184 and #197, where he calls SpyreX his top suspect and then proceeds to vote for his top suspect's top suspect.

One more question...
Nachomamma, did you actually think SpyreX would hammer RichardGHP if you put him at L-1?

Of course. I wouldn't have voted otherwise.

(Reckamonic
Substrike22)

[FakeGod]

wait, I thought chainsaw defense attack can be only used if the person in question flipped scum.

[Shotty to the Body]

I'll have a reply up to anything directed at me tomorrow. Until then.

[Substrike22]

Sorry, post coming this weekend. Life is kicking my ass right now.

[SpyreX]

Jmurph, for posts like #184 and #197, where he calls SpyreX his top suspect and then proceeds to vote for his top suspect's top suspect.

Ohh SNAP I missed that.

Hrmm.

Of course. I wouldn't have voted otherwise.

<3

[jmurph3]

Jmurph, for posts like #184 and #197, where he calls SpyreX his top suspect and then proceeds to vote for his top suspect's top suspect.

Except that if you actually read post 184, that's not at all what I said. I said that at that moment,

of the people on the wagon

I'd be most willing to vote Spyrex - not, mind you, that he was my top suspect, as there is a difference. I also ended my post by saying,

In the meantime, however, i need to reread the thread and work out some reads on those that I have sort of null-tells on at the moment.

Why, guess what...I reread the thread and decided that I still didn't like the way Shotty was/is playing. So really nice job taking what I said completely out of context.

jmurph3

, why did you wait until asked to give your reasoning for the shotty vote? What other reads do you have right now? Opinions on Spy's hammer?

I was doing it to gauge Shotty's reaction, which, since he barely reacted and then disappeared, kind of didn't work. Other reads: not sure how I feel about CES at the moment - I think the tunneling on you for almost no reason is scummy. I feel like a lot of people are severely lurking at this point, which makes it difficult to develop reads, as a lot of what I got from D1 is more null than anything. After all, voting people based purely on pretty much only saying anything about Richard would kill over half the town

As for Spy's hammer, I go back and forth. Mainly it's an argument full of WIFOM in my head - scum wouldn't be that stupid; but he would know that we would think that, so he's safe to do it; but scum really

wouldn't

be that stupid, etc. Circular argument, getting me nowhere. However, I do think that all credit for the hammer can't be given solely to Spy, and I think that not enough people have focused on Nachomamma, a fact that, ironically enough, he's pointed out himself. Either way, hopefully posting will pick up in the near future, though unfortunately, I may not be around immediately to see it as I am

V/LA until late Monday the 25th

. I should still be able to post in the meantime, but just in case.

[masfloohinev]

So... jmurph, you say that SpyreX is the person on Richard's bandwagon that you are most willing to vote, yet vote Shotty, the person SpyreX is voting, who was also on the Richard bandwagon. If SpyreX and Shotty were both on the Richard bandwagon and you say SpyreX is the person you are most willing to vote out of the people on Richard's bandwagon, doesn't that include Shotty?

[masfloohinev]

EBWOP: If SpyreX and Shotty were both on the Richard bandwagon and you say SpyreX is the person you are most willing to vote out of the people on Richard's bandwagon, doesn't that mean you should suspect him more than Shotty?

[masfloohinev]

SpyreX, why is FakeGod creeping you out?

[masfloohinev]

Sorry for the quadruple post...

I'm hoping to have finished my analysis by tonight and be ready to vote somebody.

[jmurph3]

@Mas: what part of, I reread the thread and changed my mind doesn't make sense to you? At the time when I wrote the first post, Spyrex stuck out in my mind purely because of the hammer. Once I took a step back and reread things, Shotty stuck out as much scummier. So I voted him.

[SpyreX]

Except that if you actually read post 184, that's not at all what I said. I said that at that moment, of the people on the wagon I'd be most willing to vote Spyrex - not, mind you, that he was my top suspect, as there is a difference. I also ended my post by saying,

In the meantime, however, i need to reread the thread and work out some reads on those that I have sort of null-tells on at the moment.

Why, guess what...I reread the thread and decided that I

still

didn't like the way Shotty was/is playing. So really nice job taking what I said completely out of context.

There be an issue rollin' around right har'.

You say you'd be most willing to vote me. Sure.
You say you need to work out those null-tells. Sure.
THEN you say you STILL don't like Shotty. Implying that he sure as hell wasn't a null tell.

Which makes point 1 not make a whole lot of sense.

SpyreX, why is FakeGod creeping you out?

This set of posts:

so Richard didn't claim when he was about to die?

*shrug*

I guess he wanted to be lynched.

Should we lynch inside the wagon or the outside?

If we assume 2 scum on cop wagon and 1 scum outside, that gives us about 2/7 nailing scum inside the wagon, and 1/3 nailing scum outside the wagon.

Vote: SpyreX

As you wish.

The vote doesn't bother me inherently. Its the absence of ever even pretending to say I'm scum. And, the statistics from playing on the wagon are skitchy.

[Reckamonic]

Today is catchup day!
Post coming later.

[Reckamonic]

First off, Substrike, get off your high horse because that breadcrumb was not obvious at all, so stop. We've finally agreed with Cogito Ergo Sum on one thing: FakeGod's 166 is really badposting. Also, his insistence in post 180 that we should lynch from the Richard wagon is very bad. It's not like the people on the wagon knew that they were lynching a cop, and the scum could've VERY easily stayed off the wagon and let town lynch town.

Speaking of town on town, Cogito & Casus are both town, so we should just move on past that argument. masfloohinev's 195 is terribad: "Oh hey I suspect the person who hammered and I'm also going back on a town read so I don't back myself into a corner here". Furthermore, his questioning on CES, FakeGod, nachomamma, and Substrike in 196 feels incredibly fluffy, and not in a good way. We don't believe that he actually thinks SpyreX is scum, nor do we think he actually suspects Shotty right now.

ALSO SPYREX, WE HAVE FULL HYDRA CLEARANCE TO INITIATE ALL CAPS LAWK ALLIANCE ACTIVITIES. LET'S RUN THIS BITCH WHOOOOOOOOOOO

Oh haha FakeGod's vote on SpyreX is cute.

The scumteam consists of: masfloohinev, FakeGod, and someone else. Still trying to figure out who that other person is. Could be any of Substrike, Nachomamma8, and Shotty, but they're hardly posting enough for us to get good reads.

Vote: FakeGod

THANKIES~!

[SpyreX]

(Its shotty).

Mas needs to clear up his suspect business on me. One way or the other.

[masfloohinev]

@Mas: what part of, I reread the thread and changed my mind doesn't make sense to you? At the time when I wrote the first post, Spyrex stuck out in my mind purely because of the hammer. Once I took a step back and reread things, Shotty stuck out as much scummier. So I voted him.

I missed that.

[masfloohinev]

masfloohinev's 195 is terribad: "Oh hey I suspect the person who hammered and I'm also going back on a town read so I don't back myself into a corner here".

What is wrong with suspecting SpyreX for hammering? If I interprated his posts correctly, he even understands the suspicion he's attracted. Regarding Shotty, it wasn't until today that I realized he hadn't really been contributing that much... but if you are calling me scum for changing my read then you need to learn how to scumhunt. A player's reads aren't always going to stay the same as they are on day 1.

Furthermore, his questioning on CES, FakeGod, nachomamma, and Substrike in 196 feels incredibly fluffy, and not in a good way. We don't believe that he actually thinks SpyreX is scum, nor do we think he actually suspects Shotty right now.

I can't really defend against this.

Mas needs to clear up his suspect business on me. One way or the other.

I'm getting to it. I just need to look at 2 or 3 more players a bit more closely.