/Invitational 11: Pick your Poison 5 (Game Over)

[Fate]

OH HELLO HANDSOME

[Fate]

Fate\Plum - who are my other two scumbuddies then?

^LAUGHABLE ATTEMPT AT CONTENT RIGHT HERE.

[Fate]

The logic "went after every day" *JUMP* "can't be a bus" is luzly and faulty. Your second "-" has horrible grammar, and then finishes with a "WOE AS ME FATE IS USING CAPS AT ME ITS NOT LEGIT POINTS!?!?"

[Plumegranate]

Hey ooba, nice to see you. Where's that catchup post, eh?

[ooba]

- That's your opinion on scum connections. Having different parameters for scum hunting does not make it "baseless" ..
- Bad grammar does not make the point wrong

It's not legit because it was baseless. At least I'm taking a stand on who I think the scum team is. (Albeit on HH being scum scenario)..

Preview: @Plum - Didn't have the time yet.

[SpyreX]

Wooosh

Unvote, Vote: Ooba

Being unable to produce anything ever is tech.

[Fate]

Ooba you're so thoughtful and town that you actually went out of your way to rephrase the point that I didn't understand because of the lack of grammar.

IM NOMMIN YOU FOR PROTOWNESS POST-GAME YOU HEARD IT HER FIRST.

[SpyreX]

No, seriously, what the hell kind of business is OHH YEA WHO ARE MY SCUMBUDDIES HUH TOUGH GUY?

[iamausername]

I'm already working on one effortpost trying to figure out everyone and everything, but I guess I'm going to have to make another one to remind everyone that HackerHuck is obvious scum and cannot be allowed to sneak through a fifth freaking day. FINE.

I guess there's no danger of a premature hammer at this point, so:

VOTE: HackerHuck

[iamausername]

I'm starting to agree with ooba. I could see vas/rhinox as scumbuddies

Because Rhinox is defending VV???

Ah, no. VV is the perfect bus accident victim. Can you imagine a scumbag wasting town cred to save VV-buddy? If VV is scum, and I am far from being convinced this is the case, Rhinox would be the last player I'd peg as his buddy.

Still finding this post very telling. I think it's an attempt to plant a seed in everyone's mind that regardless of Vas's alignment, scum would be voting him, and therefore that not voting for Vas is a town tell.

Two: If you're innocent, how do you think you would have played this game to this point as scum?

Sounds like you're begging for WIFOM-sauce, so here it is. First of all, you'd be dead, not tajo. Also, if I were scum, and VV was my buddy, he'd be lynched already.

This one's pretty interesting too. mith just asked DGB how she'd play differently as scum, DGB turns it into an opportunity to talk about how she'd play differently as scum

with Vas

.

---

Now onto the man himself (well, mans):

Post #147: This post in particular, but really most of his D0 stuff, is just completely at odds with the Vas we saw later on in the game. I think this makes it pretty clear that he was deliberately playing up the VI-ness.

Post #414 is one of the only places where he actually presents a case with his vote. It's dropped in the next post in favour of a totally reasonless vote, of course, though he claims to be "still interested in what ooba has to say to my point against him", but... no follow-up whatsoever on that. So... obviously he wasn't

that

interested.

Really love this, from Post #553:

I very much like the fact that Hoopla is voting for Hero, FYI. That looks a bit like something I saw before from a scumbag somewhere.

Just might be the vaguest accusation I've ever seen.

Post #594: awesome hypocrisy itp

From Post #836:

Greaat, now that I'm actually trying to be useful, people attack me for trying to be useful. Geez, you people are hard to please.

Tacit admission that VasudeVa was not trying to be useful before, which would make posts such as this one abject lies, would it not?

Post #1195: "I don't really think that DGB is scum, but I don't mind her lynch." - obviously not as strong a tell as it would if DGB had been town, but I still feel like this is something he wouldn't say as town. He's really hesitant about defending DGB in a way that I don't think he would be if he actually thought DGB was town.

Post #1328:

I'm consistently wondering why mith is still alive and not scum-NK'd. Why would scum kill tajo and Herodotus over mith? Tajo, I'd understand as a PR read-NK(due to the lurking). But obv-VTHerod over obv-VT(if Town) mith?

In addition to the possible slip that mith mentioned here, and the general awfulness of the "why is mith still alive??" accusation, you've also got Vas speculating about mith being "obv-VT", for a trifecta of scummitude!

Post #1463: "Any town claims besides KMD's tracker claim?"

Hi, scum slip. Why is HackerHuck specifically asking about

town

claims?

Post #1474: Two lists in this same post:
"some people made almost no impression on me (ooba, pokerface/eek, Adumbrodeus, pz/iamausername)"
"My scummier players are in this list: Mith, Plum/Pom, ellibereth, ooba, spyrex."

I'd have though these two would be mututally exclusive, but somehow ooba ends up in both.

Post #1505:

Fruitsisters are still a good wagon. Don't worry about Ooba soiling the wagon. I know Fate understands what bussing is. Take a look at them in iso. The activity has seemed to really drop off after Day 1. From the most recent posts, I don't like their entry onto the DGB wagon. It seems to be based on Mith's assessment of DGB's alignment, which isn't too bad, but I don't like how they ignored the large case that IamAUserName put forward on his entry into the game. Considering they think he's town, I would have expected them to use it to support a case, but they instead look to ride Mith's coattails. Someone who really suspected DGB, would have picked that up, so I get the feeling that they were just looking for a reason to jump on the wagon and tied themselves to Mith.

This is seriously such an awful reason to call Palumporom scum. If they were "just looking for a reason to jump onto the wagon", why wouldn't they back my case as well as mith's? This accusation makes no sense whatsoever.

HackerHuck is providing a fine demonstration of what it actually looks like when someone is just looking for a reason to jump onto a wagon, though.

Post #1553: Huck gripes about the Palumporom wagon starting to dissolve when they claimed vanilla.

Post #1611: "I'm having some doubts, but I'm not sure if I want to throw out my town read on DGB just yet."

Another one where I feel like it's worded in a way that town wouldn't say. 'want' is the sticking point. "Not sure if I'm ready", or "not sure if I'm willing", something like that, I could see town saying. But "not sure if I want to" seems to imply that the read is not genuine, because it implies that HackerHuck is the one who controls his opinion on DGB, rather than DGB. Does that make sense?

Post #1786: Once again, HACKERHUCK OPENLY DISCUSSING WHO IS SCUM IF HACKERHUCK IS SCUM. THIS MAKES NO SENSE AS A TOWN MOVE.

Post #1787: General fearmongering to stall his lynch, ignores the obvious possibility that the vig could just not shoot.

Post #1793: HackerHuck is possessed by the ghost of Vas and responds to a case against him with "people attacking me are scum for attacking me". Fantastic.

---

Seriously now. ooba's not exactly a shining beacon of townliness, but he has got nothing on this guy.

[ooba]

No, seriously, what the hell kind of business is OHH YEA WHO ARE MY SCUMBUDDIES HUH TOUGH GUY?

I advocated mentioning your choice for probable scum teams even before anybody voted me ..

If you can't actually spell out who you think my scum buddies are when voting me
- It either means you're lazy town whose not thinking it through
- Scum who doesn't want to commit since it can be used for analysis later

@Fate: "Because I'm not

vote

sure if VV scum is the case"

[Fate]

THEN WHY THE FUCKING FUCK ARE YOU BASING YOUR SCUMREADS BASED ON VV BEING SCUM.

HOLY HELL.


HEY IAM, YOU KNOW WHY YOU ARE ABLE TO TWIST A LOT OF THINGS THAT FUCKING MORON VV SAYS INTO CONTRADICTIONS AND SCUMSLIPS?

1. BECAUSE VV IS A MORON. HE SAYS REALLY STUPID SHIT AND DOES THE SAME.
2. BECAUSE THAT SLOT

HAS ACTUALLY BEEN POSTING THIS ENTIRE GAME

NOW.
DON'T. JUST. SIT. THERE. WHILE. OOBA. CONTINUES. TO. DO. NOTHING.

LACK OF ANY TELLS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TOWN TELLS+SCUMTELLS.

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[iamausername]

Sooo the major difference is: "

Let's

If

we massclaim, we can stick scum with a completely useless Daycop, Hurrah!"

Not exactly sure why the 'if' part is important nor why it makes the argument more convincing.

The Janitor makes it all moot. Remember:

Scum have daytalk

and if we do go with this plan, it'll be easy to coordinate fake claims and janitorization which would benefit scum

alot

. (I'm actually more scared of teh daytalk than I am of the scumPRchoices.)

Also, with five claims and a janitorization = Our real PRs are now unreliable and thus effectively neutralizing our PRs until we find the fakeclaiming scum(which we might not, because of the Janitor.). 5 claims in the DC/Jan plan absolutely needs a scumflip to be effective and it will only help us for 5 days or so if we play it perfectly and lynch correctly knowing that there will be a ???? flip.

4 claims in the DC/Jan plan is next to impossible. The Janitor is a fake-claim WIFOM machine, I don't see why scum won't take advantage of that. In fact, it will practically force them to claim otherwise they'll have 4 confirmed townies to deal with. The scum countermeasure here will be one goon fakeclaims, scum team kills off ALL 4 PRs which is obviously bad considering only get to catch 1 scum.

What's the Town advantage here anyway? I don't see it. All I see are PRs dying early with little to no benefit other than a temporary voting block.

Yeah, Vas is a moron. Totally incapable of effort, or rational thought or any of that good stuff.

And I guess HackerHuck is a moron too? Because I posted a pretty hefty chunk that showed how he has continued to be scum in Vas's stead.

[Fate]

1. I do in fact think DGB would have mercilessly bussed VV's horrible play. I also don't think she would ever mention any buddies in anyway (such that the only connections she makes are to townies when she flips)
2. Regarding the abject lies, VV's play is horrible, he knows its horrible, and his "lack of trying"="shamelessly bandwagoning"="his form of scumhunting". Does it suck ass? Yes. Does it not mean he is geniune in thinking he was contributing in his own way? No.

3. Post #1611: DGB got counterclaimed by a town PR. There was no reason for any scum to hesitate on a DGB vote, none at all.

4. HH discussing who scum is based on him being scum, fucking stupid yes, but it doesn't smell of scum drawing WIFOM lines in the sand and more of a "well everyone thinks I'm scum, so shouldn't they also think XXX is scum due to these points?" Or something. Semi-valid point though.

5. 90% OF TOWNIES get the OMGUSyndrome and reflexively attack people they think are pushing a BS case on them, because they know it can't be an ALL town wagon. Inexperienced nublets have a hard time discerning between the two, so they attack the whole wagon.

[Fate]

Yeah, Vas is a moron. Totally incapable of effort, or rational thought or any of that good stuff.

And I guess HackerHuck is a moron too? Because I posted a pretty hefty chunk that showed how he has continued to be scum in Vas's stead.

I'm glad we can agree on the lack of intelligence of VV.

HH hasn't been as moronic, just more weird. I could post a hefty load of stuff that he's done that is

town

if I had time.

I'll be the first one to vote HH tomorrow if ooba flips town, BUT LOOK AT IT THIS WAY (AGAIN I"LL SAY IT):
TOWNTELLS+SCUMTELLS <<<<<<<<<<<<< LACK OF ANYTELLS BEING DROPPED. NULLTELLS ARE MORELIKELY TO BE SCUM THAN MIXEDTELLS. THE KING OF NULLNESS, I GIVE YOU OOBA. FLYING SO FAR UNDER THE RADAR HES UNDERGROUND

HAAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Fate]

AND HERE'S ANOTHER EXCELLENT POINT AGAINST OOBA:

I say "lol hes not voting VV but callin VV scum." as a test. Because TOWN WOULD SAY:

TownOoba: I haven't done my catchup post, I'm not so sure that VV is scum and I need to finish my reread.

BUT HE SAID

ScumOoba: I not sure VV is scum. BUT HERE ARE THE SCUMS IF VV IS INDEED SCUM LIKE PEOPLE ARE SAYING.


NO.
WRONG.

X

[ooba]

TownOoba: I haven't done my catchup post, I'm not so sure that VV is scum and I need to finish my reread.

BUT HE SAID

ScumOoba: I not sure VV is scum. BUT HERE ARE THE SCUMS IF VV IS INDEED SCUM LIKE PEOPLE ARE SAYING.

Here's what I did say:
"I'd like people to start spelling out suspicions in scum teams like PF did.
If VV is scum, here are his partners.
(I'm not sure VV is scum though.) I'll need to check with a re-read."

[mith]

ooba: If you haven't come through on this re-read post in the next 24 hours, my vote will be moving to you. (It may move there anyway. Fate's argument is pretty persuasive.)

Hoping to have some free time this afternoon to look at possible scumgroups. Having two active wagons is helpful on that front.

[ooba]

ooba: If you haven't come through on this re-read post in the next 24 hours, my vote will be moving to you. (It may move there anyway. Fate's argument is pretty persuasive.)

Just to be clear, which argument are you taking about? (Neither of the points you said had anything to do with what Fate actually said)

Fate: You're doing it wrong again. But FWIW, if your point is "ooba knows HH is going to flip scum, they're scum together", I think it's a good one. "Overall, pretty weak reasons for setting up my lynch tomorrow" doesn't look very good either (though to be fair he does make that one conditional with a "what if HH is town?" add-on).

[HackerHuck]

I'm not going to talk to what you said about VV

Post #1463: "Any town claims besides KMD's tracker claim?"

Hi, scum slip. Why is HackerHuck specifically asking about

town

claims?

Because I also wanted any vanilla claims.

Post #1474: Two lists in this same post:
"some people made almost no impression on me (ooba, pokerface/eek, Adumbrodeus, pz/iamausername)"
"My scummier players are in this list: Mith, Plum/Pom, ellibereth, ooba, spyrex."

I'd have though these two would be mututally exclusive, but somehow ooba ends up in both.

Ooba hadn't really posted that much, so I didn't have much noted on him. However, if you read through that entire you post, you'll see that I did quote a couple of things of Ooba's that I found scummy. Basically, what little impression of ooba I had was scummy.

Post #1505:

Fruitsisters are still a good wagon. Don't worry about Ooba soiling the wagon. I know Fate understands what bussing is. Take a look at them in iso. The activity has seemed to really drop off after Day 1. From the most recent posts, I don't like their entry onto the DGB wagon. It seems to be based on Mith's assessment of DGB's alignment, which isn't too bad, but I don't like how they ignored the large case that IamAUserName put forward on his entry into the game. Considering they think he's town, I would have expected them to use it to support a case, but they instead look to ride Mith's coattails. Someone who really suspected DGB, would have picked that up, so I get the feeling that they were just looking for a reason to jump on the wagon and tied themselves to Mith.

This is seriously such an awful reason to call Palumporom scum. If they were "just looking for a reason to jump onto the wagon", why wouldn't they back my case as well as mith's? This accusation makes no sense whatsoever.

They were just trying to get on a wagon without having to do the legwork, so the took the easiest way out. Why else would they ignore everything you said about DGB and only copy Mith? Keep in mind that I said that before the DGB flip, but it still holds true. If they were actually scumhunting on DGB, they would have picked up on what you said.

Post #1553: Huck gripes about the Palumporom wagon starting to dissolve when they claimed vanilla.

There was nothing about their claim that changed my mind and no one else explained why they left the wagon. How is this even a big deal?

Post #1611: "I'm having some doubts, but I'm not sure if I want to throw out my town read on DGB just yet."

Another one where I feel like it's worded in a way that town wouldn't say. 'want' is the sticking point. "Not sure if I'm ready", or "not sure if I'm willing", something like that, I could see town saying. But "not sure if I want to" seems to imply that the read is not genuine, because it implies that HackerHuck is the one who controls his opinion on DGB, rather than DGB. Does that make sense?

What you're saying doesn't make sense. I

am

the one who controls my opinion.

Post #1786: Once again, HACKERHUCK OPENLY DISCUSSING WHO IS SCUM IF HACKERHUCK IS SCUM. THIS MAKES NO SENSE AS A TOWN MOVE.

It's kind of like what Fate said. I'm at a point where it seems extremely likely I'll be lynched. I'm trying to point out the connections required for me to be scum. I didn't know how it was going to work out before I did it, but I am trying to save myself. There's nothing scummy in that.

Post #1793: HackerHuck is possessed by the ghost of Vas and responds to a case against him with "people attacking me are scum for attacking me". Fantastic.

You and Spyrex have both been pretty inactive, so it was worth mentioning that you both happened to pick up your posting after I commented on you.

[SpyreX]

Good lord is it both of them?

Can it be?

[Patrick]

Votecount

PokerFace (1) -- HackerHuck
HackerHuck (3) -- mith, PokerFace, iamausername
ooba (3) -- Fate, Plumegranate, SpyreX

Not voting: ooba, CrashTextDummie
9 alive, lynch at 5

[CrashTextDummie]

Apologies for not getting this done yet, unforseen stuff happened. Will have found the time within the next 24 hours.

[mith]

ooba: Seriously? You quoted part of a post which Fate immediately responded to, in the very next post. He has then spent most of this page arguing why you are overall a better choice than HackerHuck. It should be pretty obvious what I'm talking about when I say Fate is being persuasive (his recent posts, not the point I thought he was making when I posted 1820).

Right now, a scumteam of HackerHuck/ooba/[as yet uncaught third member] seems very likely. If HackerHuck is scum and ooba is town, I would have a hard time going outside the group of (SpyreX, PokerFace, Fate), in that order. If HackerHuck is town and ooba is scum, SpyreX and Fate look better and I'd have to reconsider Seraphim and iamausername. If they're both town, I've lost my mind.

Still prefer HackerHuck for now, because case 2 is more likely than case 3 - townHH/scumooba is hard to reconcile with the rest of my reads. But on an individual-scumminess basis, ooba is gaining every time I read the thread.

[PokerFace]

VLA until Monday Oct 18